Not sure if this has been asked: PvP on/off switch

[Rudra]

This suggestion thread is about being able to turn off PvP when in a PvP zone. The reason for this thread is because non-PvP players are avoiding the PvP zones to avoid the PvP'ers and wish to get their non-PvP tasks done. Specifically, the poster's wife and friends in this case. The reason players like me avoid PvP zones and PvP'ers in general is because of our experiences with PvP'ers. It all fits. It falls within the realm of the suggestion thread. It is the basis of why we avoid PvP zones and PvP'ers, and would like to have the ability to avoid PvP.

 

His/her sweeping generalizations about the overwhelming majority of a certain kind of player is not a sweeping generalization about anything; it is a statement of what (s)he has personally experienced and forms the basis of any aversion to PvP'ers in general or usage of the PvP zones (s)he may have. An experience that players like me have also endured. Which is why we avoid PvP zones and PvP'ers. Which is the basis of this suggestion thread to be able to turn off the PvP flag.

 

As far as the OP goes, yes, there is no point to disabling the PvP flag in HC because there is a very small PvP population in HC. So those of us that wish to avoid PvP can still enter the PvP zones and gather our badges or temp powers surprisingly safely.

 

Edit: I have to have the temp powers listed in my statement because I know people specifically go into Bloody Bay for the Shivan and into Warburg for the rockets. My primary concern is the explores and lore, but gotta account for everything.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[Wavicle]

The fundamental misunderstanding is this:

 

 There ARE NO Non-PvP activities in PvP zones.

[Rudra]

The problem with that assertion is that there are lore plaques thrown into PvP zones like Siren's Call and the explore badges. So I disagree that there are no non-PvP tasks in a PvP zone. I agree that there are no non-PvP characters in a PvP zone, because everyone is flagged to be able to attack other players, but that does not mean there are no tasks. Getting to and reading a plaque in Sirens' so you can finish a Lore badge is a non-PvP task.

 

Edit: Surviving reaching the plaque and then escaping? Yeah, that is a PvP task.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[Wavicle]

Just now, Rudra said:

The problem with that assertion is that there are lore plaques thrown into PvP zones like Siren's Call and the explore badges. So I disagree that there are no non-PvP tasks in a PvP zone. I agree that there are no non-PvP characters in a PvP zone, because everyone is flagged to be able to attack other players, but that does not mean there are no tasks. Getting to and reading a plaque in Sirens' so you can finish a Lore badge is a non-PvP task.

this response Demonstrates the assertion.

 

those plaques and badges ARE PvP content!

[Rudra]

The lore badges are scattered throughout the Rogue Isles. However, there is a lone plaque embedded in the Siren's Call PvP zone. The rest of the plaques for that badge are in Mercy, Port Oakes, and either St. Martial or Sharkhead. Just because one of the required plaques for the lore badge is in a PvP zone, does not make it PvP content. However, I get the feeling neither of us is ever going to convince the other of our respective viewpoint.

[Wavicle]

Perhaps not. I just think everything in the pvp zones is pvp related, by definition. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Rudra]

There is a sidewalk at the store. Is the sidewalk part of the store?

 

Who owns your mailbox? You or the post office? (Edit: It is on your property. Doesn't that mean you own it?)

 

There is a Burger King on the military base. Is the Burger King military?

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

That hasn't been my experience in other games. And this game doesn't have open-world pvp. So are you disparaging other types of players in order to start a flame war or what?

One of the things that commended CoH to me when I joined was that it didn't have PvP. The devs made a good shot at compressing the disparity between characters for the PvP zones, but the mechanics of exemping preserve an advantage for higher-level characters, although not to anywhere near the extent that a 'you're dumped in the zone at your level' MMO does. In my experience on Live, though, there were still gankers in CoH, although the imposed exemping meant that they didn't have a position of absolute superiority to gank from, and would often run if they started taking damage. That said, the jerks were a decided minority in CoH; in one of the rare times when I participated in PvP qua PvP, it was shortly after the release of CoV, and some friends of mine and I had appropriated the roof of the hero bunker in Bloody Bay as a hangout. We weren't going after any of the heroes, except for the ones who came up to try to dislodge us; it was a "we're here; what are you going to do about it?" challenge. An hour or so after we started, having gotten occasional assistance from other villains, we had to leave because of dinner being called; by that time, we were largely ignored by the heroes, as we weren't doing anything but camping on the roof.

[Wavicle]

It’s not a philosophy class, it’s a video game. Everything in a pvp zone requires risking pvp, it wouldn’t BE a pvp zone otherwise.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It’s not a philosophy class, it’s a video game. Everything in a pvp zone requires risking pvp, it wouldn’t BE a pvp zone otherwise.

You're right. Surviving to reach the plaque and surviving to the exit is a PvP task. That does not mean everything in the zone is automatically PvP content, just that for some reason the devs decided to throw it in there. Ostensibly to ensure PvP by making players have to go into the zone to finish a task that was already started outside of the zone. In this case, the lore badge that has 1 component embedded in a PvP zone. That is all I am saying.

 

Edit: I mean, I get it. I really do. When you enter a PvP zone, you are in PvP. Period. Dot. Exclamation point. Whatever. Not everyone enters a PvP zone for the PvP. Some of us enter a zone to complete PvE tasks we had already started. That does not make the task PvP. It makes surviving getting the task done PvP.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

You're right. Surviving to reach the plaque and surviving to the exit is a PvP task. That does not mean everything in the zone is automatically PvP content, just that for some reason the devs decided to throw it in there. Ostensibly to ensure PvP by making players have to go into the zone to finish a task that was already started outside of the zone. In this case, the lore badge that has 1 component embedded in a PvP zone. That is all I am saying.

The lore badge is not in the zone. The plaque is. Everything in the pvp zone IS automatically pvp content. You can split hairs all day, it doesn't change anything. 

[Rudra]

The Lore Badge Swashbuckler cannot be gained without getting the history plaque almost in the middle of the PvP zone. The plaque is not PvP content. The plaque is necessary to get the Swashbuckler Lore badge. The Swashbuckler Lore badge is necessary to the Born in Battle accolade. Or was until the alignment system was introduced. Random assets thrown into a PvP zone does not make that the content PvP. Just being in a PvP zone does require the player to face PvP, or at least the prospect of it. Saying something is something because of its location is nonsense. See my examples above. I can provide more if you really want.

 

... You know what? Forget it. I'm done beating my head against this wall. Vigilantes are villains while in the Rogue Isles. Which is why all the villain contacts are so eager to give them missions instead of saying "Come back when we're more alike". Rogues are heroes while in Paragon. Which is why Manticore is so eager to give them his TF. A random lore plaque is PvP content because it is in a PvP zone. Nevermind that 3/4s of that badge's plaques are not in PvP zones. I don't care any more. You can have your lunacy.

 

Edit: I whole heartedly disagree  with your lunacy. I'm just done arguing with it.

Edit again: You're wrong, by definition of PvP, but I'm done. Now. With this last edit.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[Wavicle]

being in a pvp zone DOES make something pvp content. By definition. Regardless of whether you agree.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

There is a sidewalk at the store. Is the sidewalk part of the store?

If it's on their property, yes.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Who owns your mailbox? You or the post office? (Edit: It is on your property. Doesn't that mean you own it?)

I purchased my mailbox and I dug the hole and planted it in the ground myself. So, yes. I own my mailbox. PS: the USPS doesn't own your mail or your mailbox, they just deliver the mail.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

There is a Burger King on the military base. Is the Burger King military?

On the base that I was stationed at, Burger King rented a building and sold their products to the military personnel on that base. Neither Burger King, nor their employees, were military members.

 

You have failed Philosophy 101. You may enroll again next semester if you like, but you will not get a refund for this year's class.

 

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

If it's on their property, yes.

 

I purchased my mailbox and I dug the hole and planted it in the ground myself. So, yes. I own my mailbox. PS: the USPS doesn't own your mail or your mailbox, they just deliver the mail.

 

On the base that I was stationed at, Burger King rented a building and sold their products to the military personnel on that base. Neither Burger King, nor their employees, were military members.

 

You have failed Philosophy 101. You may enroll again next semester if you like, but you will not get a refund for this year's class.

 

The city owns the sidewalk. Regardless of whether it is on the store's property.

Our mailbox is owned by the post office. They dug the hole. They own box.

Any store can rent a building available for such a use on a military base. (Edit: Provided said store meets the base's requirements for operation.) That does not make the store military.

 

Thank you for playing. See you next time.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rudra

[biostem]

I could get behind this but only with the caveat that it is a 1-time, permanent choice, and you are henceforth unable to enter PvP zones or take part in any PvP content.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

I could get behind this but only with the caveat that it is a 1-time, permanent choice, and you are henceforth unable to enter PvP zones or take part in any PvP content.

Erm... what? Just say to stay out of the PvP zone if unwilling to take the chance of PvP. It accomplishes the same thing without needing a flag to prevent the player from entering the zone. Not that there is any major chance of getting caught in PvP these days. Which rather renders the need for this post moot.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Erm... what? Just say to stay out of the PvP zone if unwilling to take the chance of PvP. It accomplishes the same thing without needing a flag to prevent the player from entering the zone. Not that there is any major chance of getting caught in PvP these days. Which rather renders the need for this post moot.

My comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek; You already have the ability I suggested - just don't go in there...

[Wavicle]

It’s ok Rudra, I also thought he was serious. Who can tell, these days?

[Rudra]

Apologies. Text doesn't relate humorous intent that well for me unless elementary school level obvious.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

My comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek; You already have the ability I suggested - just don't go in there...

Technically I think your suggestion would be a nerf, since the current implementation, not going in there, is reversible at any time.

[Marbing]

Not saying I agree that you should be able to turn off PvP. You entered the zone you assume the risks, that includes griefers that just want to “LOL KB” you over and over with no intent to actually kill you and before anyone says anything about it yes that shit DOES happen. But, again, you CHOSE to enter and thus know the risks.
 

However, with regards to all content in PvP zones is PvP content, I would like to point your attention to the enemies scattered about the zone. Those are by definition E, not P, unless the devs are playing hundreds of Arachnos in RV that is Player vs Environment stuff in a Player vs Player zone. Carry on. It’s okay to admit you can have both in one zone. You will live, I hope.

 

 

[Wavicle]

8 hours ago, Marbing said:

Not saying I agree that you should be able to turn off PvP. You entered the zone you assume the risks, that includes griefers that just want to “LOL KB” you over and over with no intent to actually kill you and before anyone says anything about it yes that shit DOES happen. But, again, you CHOSE to enter and thus know the risks.
 

However, with regards to all content in PvP zones is PvP content, I would like to point your attention to the enemies scattered about the zone. Those are by definition E, not P, unless the devs are playing hundreds of Arachnos in RV that is Player vs Environment stuff in a Player vs Player zone. Carry on. It’s okay to admit you can have both in one zone. You will live, I hope.

 

 

those mobs are part of the pvp zone, thereby making them pvp content. They might ALSO be pve content, but that’s a slightly different point.

[battlewraith]

9 hours ago, Marbing said:

However, with regards to all content in PvP zones is PvP content, I would like to point your attention to the enemies scattered about the zone. Those are by definition E, not P, unless the devs are playing hundreds of Arachnos in RV that is Player vs Environment stuff in a Player vs Player zone. Carry on. It’s okay to admit you can have both in one zone. You will live, I hope.

 

 

 

There are tons of things in the game that are not controlled by players, whether in pvp or not. This includes fundamentals like the game engine itself and the various assets that constitute the world. So if we followed this rich vein of logic to its conclusion, pvp would be something like floating in an existential void and using the power of your imagination to pew pew some abstract object that would represent another player,

[Rudra]

Give it up, @Marbing. Logic and definitions are meaningless in that discussion. Just let them keep thinking that player versus player and the area where player versus player content means the environment and available environmental hazards are also players. Just... give it up. They will keep arguing nonsense.