New Challenge mode ITF….any MM’s survive this?

[tjknight]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

Honestly I just hope that those who make decisions on thing notice the new trends and do something. I don't have the head to know what should be done, and I am not crying for a nerf either, if anything I hope that this may shine a light on which ATs/Powersets that could do with some love.

 

I agree.  Voltak has been posted a couple of videos in the Defender forum of his ITF successes with varied teams. I believe this one , is the successful run that the Demons/Cold MM participated in. 

 

 

Some tips I've been picking up from reading his ITF threads include making sure you have a good amount of negative energy resist, and how beneficial Incandescence is to healer/support classes. I didn't know that Incandescence boosted support abilities as much as it did. Also seems  like ability would work really well for MM's.  Also, I'm now pondering if Demons have a significant amount of negative energy resist. That combined with cold shields could be a factor. 

 

[Voltak]

22 minutes ago, tjknight said:

 

I agree.  Voltak has been posted a couple of videos in the Defender forum of his ITF successes with varied teams. I believe this one , is the successful run that the Demons/Cold MM participated in. 

 

 

Some tips I've been picking up from reading his ITF threads include making sure you have a good amount of negative energy resist, and how beneficial Incandescence is to healer/support classes. I didn't know that Incandescence boosted support abilities as much as it did. Also seems  like ability would work really well for MM's.  Also, I'm now pondering if Demons have a significant amount of negative energy resist. That combined with cold shields could be a factor. 

 

The driver also matters way more than the car. 
Adams, the MM, is a top notch MM player. 
His skill level is important. 
However.  This is not the first time he runs his MMs in 4 stars. 
If you need a dmg dealer , an MM is sure to wreck things quickly especially singe target, hard targets. 

Incandescence works wonders. 
It is the fastest recharging Destiny in the game. 
The buffs to healing are tremendous. 
It's ideal for MMs for control and positioning. 
Two of those destinies in the team helps tremendously for speeding and for Pet management. 

[tjknight]

7 hours ago, Voltak said:

The driver also matters way more than the car. 
Adams, the MM, is a top notch MM player. 
His skill level is important. 
However.  This is not the first time he runs his MMs in 4 stars. 
If you need a dmg dealer , an MM is sure to wreck things quickly especially singe target, hard targets. 

Incandescence works wonders. 
It is the fastest recharging Destiny in the game. 
The buffs to healing are tremendous. 
It's ideal for MMs for control and positioning. 
Two of those destinies in the team helps tremendously for speeding and for Pet management. 

 Thanks for response Voltak! 

[Sovera]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:01 PM, Neiska said:

Update:

 

Got turned down from six 4 star teams now for being an MM.

Got to do one 2 star with my Crabber SoA.

Got turned down from a 4 star with my scrapper. (To be fair they needed support. Had plenty of DPS already.)

Got turned down from three ITF teams on my tanker because I was Bio-Armor, and they wanted Shield Defense, Invulnerability, or Super Reflexes. Team leader said they wouldn't accept any other primaries.

 

Patch 4 sure has brought out the best in the community. *slowclap*

 

Why are you mad? This has long since been predicted. The game was incredibly easy and we could take anything and anyone just to fill eight slots and it would be done. Now it is hard and the whateverhappygolucky meta got tightened. ...which is logical? It's not like MMs are in a good place as we are right now.

 

You know what I did not read in your list? How you were making your own team and people would join and then leave the team when seeing you were an MM.

[Neiska]

4 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Why are you mad? This has long since been predicted. The game was incredibly easy and we could take anything and anyone just to fill eight slots and it would be done. Now it is hard and the whateverhappygolucky meta got tightened. ...which is logical? It's not like MMs are in a good place as we are right now.

 

You know what I did not read in your list? How you were making your own team and people would join and then leave the team when seeing you were an MM.

 

I'm not "mad". And the game was only "easy" if you played the meta, which not everyone does. But what it does do is re-enforce the "trinity" style of play - that is, Tanker/Brute, healer, dps. (though our trinity is a bit more like a pentagram with buffs/debuffs.)

 

And the "Trinity" is not really a thing that was in CoH, and yet now here we are. If I wanted that style of play, I could pick up any one of the hundreds of other MMOs and go "50 blah blah LFG." To me it was wonderful that there was leeway to make a build as you wanted, to customize not just your costume, powers, but also what powers you take, and how they are enhanced. IMO CoH's game design was way ahead of its time, as there are very few other games that allow customization to that extent even to this very day.

 

And "easy" is entirely subjective. If you think "oh we have it too easy" then go make a Merc/Empathy MM and go join a 4 star ITF and let us know how that goes. Or play any one of the hundreds of other non-optimized builds and go do this content. The only silver lining here is that the activity is entirely optional. There are no special accolades involved or anything of that nature, and thank goodness for that. But I take a pretty dim view of things that try to make CoH like other games, because the fact that its different from others is what made it stand out, at least to me. And I am sure I am not the only one. 👍

 

So if you want to go full T4, spend a billion on the best min/max build there is, calculating out the best heal/damage/buff/whatever to the nearest .00024% and then go "Games too easy" then you sort of dug your own hole on that one. At least you had the option to do something outside the box. But for those of us that like to experiment, or do new things, different things, or even things just for fun, have no option. At least if we want to do that activity at that difficulty. Now if we want to do it, oh wells, outta luck. Better level up a toon specially made for it huh? Thats just grand.

 

Finally, I really have to eyeroll when they make content that excludes not just MMs, but several ATs entirely and they call it progress or content meant for everyone. Know what I didn't see in your reply though? You offering to take non-meta's either. So kudos on you for that then I guess?

 

You want to play the meta than fine. But don't expect everyone to. In fact most people don't. Some of us even make a point not to. But don't make the meta, then look around and go "Games to easy for us in the top 5% of builds. We need more content" when there was already lots, and lots, of content to be had. IF you didn't play the meta.

[Sovera]

7 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

I'm not "mad". And the game was only "easy" if you played the meta, which not everyone does. But what it does do is re-enforce the "trinity" style of play - that is, Tanker/Brute, healer, dps. (though our trinity is a bit more like a pentagram with buffs/debuffs.)

 

And the "Trinity" is not really a thing that was in CoH, and yet now here we are. If I wanted that style of play, I could pick up any one of the hundreds of other MMOs and go "50 blah blah LFG." To me it was wonderful that there was leeway to make a build as you wanted, to customize not just your costume, powers, but also what powers you take, and how they are enhanced. IMO CoH's game design was way ahead of its time, as there are very few other games that allow customization to that extent even to this very day.

 

And "easy" is entirely subjective. If you think "oh we have it too easy" then go make a Merc/Empathy MM and go join a 4 star ITF and let us know how that goes. Or play any one of the hundreds of other non-optimized builds and go do this content. The only silver lining here is that the activity is entirely optional. There are no special accolades involved or anything of that nature, and thank goodness for that. But I take a pretty dim view of things that try to make CoH like other games, because the fact that its different from others is what made it stand out, at least to me. And I am sure I am not the only one. 👍

 

So if you want to go full T4, spend a billion on the best min/max build there is, calculating out the best heal/damage/buff/whatever to the nearest .00024% and then go "Games too easy" then you sort of dug your own hole on that one. At least you had the option to do something outside the box. But for those of us that like to experiment, or do new things, different things, or even things just for fun, have no option. At least if we want to do that activity at that difficulty. Now if we want to do it, oh wells, outta luck. Better level up a toon specially made for it huh? Thats just grand.

 

Finally, I really have to eyeroll when they make content that excludes not just MMs, but several ATs entirely and they call it progress or content meant for everyone. Know what I didn't see in your reply though? You offering to take non-meta's either. So kudos on you for that then I guess?

 

You want to play the meta than fine. But don't expect everyone to. In fact most people don't. Some of us even make a point not to. But don't make the meta, then look around and go "Games to easy for us in the top 5% of builds. We need more content" when there was already lots, and lots, of content to be had. IF you didn't play the meta.

 

 

I haven't even done the new content starting from new Aeon. You are not the only one who liked the everything-goes-anyone-works game we have(had?). The shift with a oh-a-hundred-deaths-and-three-hours meta is of no interest to me. So I haven't touched it.

 

But as you've pointed out it's currently 0.3% of the game content. Even lower HMs are not as stringent as four stars. There is plenty to do.

 

Just like in other games where people complain they try to get into a group and can never seem to the solution to your current problem is the same though: make your own group!

 

Now if you do say that you tried to make it and had a hard time because people would be invited, look around, then drop out of the group? Okay, we'll get back to it.

 

 

P.S. The devs have not excluded anyone. Like in other games with tight metas and PuGs it is the -community- that excludes others based on a perceived meta (that class does 10% less damage than that other class? No thanks, that 10% will be super duper uber important!). Communities but of friends or SGs will take a player instead of a class/AT, but ultimately results are what matter. It is nice to wander off the beaten track and explore, but not if it costs the other seven people pain out of stubbornness.

[Neiska]

16 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

 

I haven't even done the new content starting from new Aeon. You are not the only one who liked the everything-goes-anyone-works game we have(had?). The shift with a oh-a-hundred-deaths-and-three-hours meta is of no interest to me. So I haven't touched it.

 

But as you've pointed out it's currently 0.3% of the game content. Even lower HMs are not as stringent as four stars. There is plenty to do.

 

Just like in other games where people complain they try to get into a group and can never seem to the solution to your current problem is the same though: make your own group!

 

Now if you do say that you tried to make it and had a hard time because people would be invited, look around, then drop out of the group? Okay, we'll get back to it.

 

 

P.S. The devs have not excluded anyone. Like in other games with tight metas and PuGs it is the -community- that excludes others based on a perceived meta (that class does 10% less damage than that other class? No thanks, that 10% will be super duper uber important!). Communities but of friends or SGs will take a player instead of a class/AT, but ultimately results are what matter. It is nice to wander off the beaten track and explore, but not if it costs the other seven people pain out of stubbornness.

 

I respectfully disagree. I wouldn't call content where only 5 out of 15 ATs are desired/pugged as a good thing no matter what your logic or reasoning. I do respect that people wanted harder content. Fine. But they could have made things harder without excluding 2/3 out of the builds, or about half of the powersets. Now this is more on the players than the devs I agree, but at the end of the day it's the dev's who design the game mechanics. And I would argue that if they make content that shuns more than half of the ATs, I would ask what's the point.

[Sovera]

37 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

I respectfully disagree. I wouldn't call content where only 5 out of 15 ATs are desired/pugged as a good thing no matter what your logic or reasoning. I do respect that people wanted harder content. Fine. But they could have made things harder without excluding 2/3 out of the builds, or about half of the powersets. Now this is more on the players than the devs I agree, but at the end of the day it's the dev's who design the game mechanics. And I would argue that if they make content that shuns more than half of the ATs, I would ask what's the point.

 

The content started ultra hard and taking multiple hours and triple digit deaths but it's slowly going down. Now we have public runs at a bit less than one hour and single digit deaths.

 

Anyway, I started a bit strong on my first post, but I think that the advice of starting your own group ought to let you do the content you care for on the AT/build you care about. I could be wrong because people dropping out at seeing the group comp could well be a thing, but I still feel (feelings are not a good measurement though) that there are enough players to replace those who drop out.

[Neiska]

9 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

The content started ultra hard and taking multiple hours and triple digit deaths but it's slowly going down. Now we have public runs at a bit less than one hour and single digit deaths.

 

Anyway, I started a bit strong on my first post, but I think that the advice of starting your own group ought to let you do the content you care for on the AT/build you care about. I could be wrong because people dropping out at seeing the group comp could well be a thing, but I still feel (feelings are not a good measurement though) that there are enough players to replace those who drop out.

 

It's not a matter of "just start your own group." It's the nature of the content where I can't play my favorite classes/powersets that I don't even want to play it. You and others may feel differently. And I respect that, truly. But I don't make special characters to just do X activity. I play characters that I actually enjoy playing. If I don't like playing the character, I am not going to "force" myself to in order just to do the content. I am just glad the content is optional. Other games are not like that. And that's one reason why I don't play them, but that's just me. But the moment they tack on special things like accolades or actual character power onto activities like these, I will likely lose interest.

[Bionic_Flea]

We completed a 2* all MM ITF last night! 

 

It actually wasn't too bad at all until Rommy in the last mission.  Having a single tank to handle Rommy and ambush aggro would have made it a lot easier.  I think it ended up as 76 deaths and 1:49 or so.  Not great but not bad either as I expect this will get better with time.

 

But the rest of the TF was pretty good and smooth.  I expected a lot more deaths in the crystals caves, but with 8 MMs running together, buffing & healing each other we overwhelmed the poor romans and nictus.

 

I did have to re-summon a lot more than usual, but hey, it's hard mode and I expected to.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[tjknight]

On 9/27/2022 at 12:54 PM, Bionic_Flea said:

We completed a 2* all MM ITF last night! 

 

It actually wasn't too bad at all until Rommy in the last mission.  Having a single tank to handle Rommy and ambush aggro would have made it a lot easier.  I think it ended up as 76 deaths and 1:49 or so.  Not great but not bad either as I expect this will get better with time.

 

But the rest of the TF was pretty good and smooth.  I expected a lot more deaths in the crystals caves, but with 8 MMs running together, buffing & healing each other we overwhelmed the poor romans and nictus.

 

I did have to re-summon a lot more than usual, but hey, it's hard mode and I expected to.

 I think I saw that in the global broadcast on Excelsior. Didn't join because my only 50 MM still isn't incarnated out yet (too many alts, not enough time). But it was cool to see people breaking out and trying things. I also saw a couple of "bring any AT you want"  2 stars being advertised. 

[Seed22]

On 9/26/2022 at 4:26 AM, Neiska said:

 

I respectfully disagree. I wouldn't call content where only 5 out of 15 ATs are desired/pugged as a good thing no matter what your logic or reasoning. I do respect that people wanted harder content. Fine. But they could have made things harder without excluding 2/3 out of the builds, or about half of the powersets. Now this is more on the players than the devs I agree, but at the end of the day it's the dev's who design the game mechanics. And I would argue that if they make content that shuns more than half of the ATs, I would ask what's the point.

At the end of the day too, HM is kinda irrelevant(like I assumed it would be) thanks to everyone having(or seemingly, if the AH is anything to go off of) what they want.

 

I don't see runs on Everlasting for HM anymore, and if it's on Excel that exclusion comes from folks who are taking HM way too seriously(and still being terrible at it btw), which makes me both laugh and feel sad/concerned on where things will be going from here. Personally? Outside of the odd run or two, I'm done with HM. It's really niche, which is neat for those who like it, but it's ultimately worthless content to me. The AH reaffirms this imo too, though I expect the AH will spike if/when they release whatever other costumes they have planned.