Inconsistent Stealth

[Burk]

I noticed while playing a dark armor tank that while I was stealthing parts of missions I would occasionally be seen by enemies with no perception buffs despite having Cloak of Darkness (35ft) and Super Speed (35ft) with Celerity (30ft) slotted. Now of course with the latest page Cloak and SS no longer stack and that's why I now have Celerity slotted in the first place, but that should mean I have 65ft of stealth. More than enough for any normal minion through boss. Also should state that my damage aura (Death Shroud) was off.

 

With further testing on a variety of enemies in PI, I found that they would just randomly see through my stealth. One mob would completely ignore me as usual and then the next one with the same type and level would just see me.

 

I then tested with a number of different characters. I noticed the same thing happen with my dark affinity controller (Shadow Fall + SS + Celerity), my storm corruptor (Steamy Mist + SS + Celerity), and my warshade (Shadow Cloak + SS + Celerity). None of my characters that simply have Super Speed with Celerity slotted could replicate it, though, so it doesn't seem to have anything to do with Celerity, but instead SS conflicting with the other stealth powers.

 

In conclusion, stacking a 35ft stealth power from a power set with Super Speed no longer grants full stealth and is instead a liability with both stealth powers randomly failing.

[SeraphimKensai]

They nerfed stealth to not let superspeed stack with other sources. There's pages of notes on it in the focused feedback post for stealth.

[Blood Speaker]

My ninja MM with Stealth and Infiltration + stealth proc does not have this issue. Don't recall if I have any SS toons that rely on it for stealth purposes, so not sure if I can test the issue precisely as presented.

[Wavicle]

Hmm, that's no good...

It sounds like the problem might be in Cloak of Darkness itself, which WAS having a little trouble in Beta that they thought they'd fixed...

[Burk]

6 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

They nerfed stealth to not let superspeed stack with other sources. There's pages of notes on it in the focused feedback post for stealth.

 

Yes, I acknowledged that fact specifically in my post.

 

6 minutes ago, Blood Speaker said:

My ninja MM with Stealth and Infiltration + stealth proc does not have this issue. Don't recall if I have any SS toons that rely on it for stealth purposes, so not sure if I can test the issue precisely as presented.

 

The Stealth power has a radius of 55ft which is automatically going to win out over Infiltration's 36ft. I'm fairly sure that the problem lies in all the stealth powers in my post having the same radius of 35ft and therefore the game is having trouble figuring out which one to use.

 

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Hmm, that's no good...

It sounds like the problem might be in Cloak of Darkness itself, which WAS having a little trouble in Beta that they thought they'd fixed...

 

Same thing was happening with Shadow Fall, Steamy Mist, Shadow Cloak, and now I've heard from someone else that it is happening with Arctic Air from Cold Domination.

[Blood Speaker]

22 minutes ago, Burk said:

The Stealth power has a radius of 55ft which is automatically going to win out over Infiltration's 36ft. 

 

Never mind. Too tired to read.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Blood Speaker

[Wavicle]

oh I misread your OP, thought you said it WASN'T happening with other toons

 

so maybe the problem is Super Speed?

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Blood Speaker said:

 

My Combat Attributes disagree...

 

Your combat window agrees. It shows the power Stealth and the IO Unbounded Leap, as it should be.

[Blood Speaker]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

 

Your combat window agrees. It shows the power Stealth and the IO Unbounded Leap, as it should be.

 

LOL, that's why I edited my post. 😛

[Burk]

The weird thing about it is my combat attributes keep reading as 65ft even up to the point where stuff starts attacking me. And @Wavicle, it doesn't happen with my other toons that only use Super Speed and Celerity. Any toon that has those with another 35ft stealth power is having problems.

[Wavicle]

But is it happening in ANY situation not involving Super Speed?

[Wavicle]

Is Infiltration 35 ft? If so, is it working properly with Infil+Steamy Mist for example?

[Burk]

I don't have any toons with Infiltration. My guess would be that there would not be an issue since Infiltration is 36ft and would override. For example, Mask Presence on my Widow is not having any issues since that is 40ft.

 

Maybe I'll get on test later and try out all the possible stealth powers, but don't have time at the moment.

[Wavicle]

So, perhaps an easy fix would be to make Super Speed 37 ft so that it does not conflict with 35 and 36 ft powers?

[Booper]

1 hour ago, Burk said:

The weird thing about it is my combat attributes keep reading as 65ft even up to the point where stuff starts attacking me. And @Wavicle, it doesn't happen with my other toons that only use Super Speed and Celerity. Any toon that has those with another 35ft stealth power is having problems.

This is likely the issue. Combat attributes doesn't update every combat tick so you likely won't ever see it show up there. 

 

I knew this could have been an issue, but I don't recall it being brought up during beta so my hope was it would not be an issue. I suspect it is which is sadly disappointing as the easiest solution will be a hacky mess of deconflicting stealth radiuses.

[Burk]

Well, the only conflicts are powers with 35ft (Arctic Fog, Shadow Fall, Steamy Mist, Field Operative, Shinobi, Shinobi-Iri, Cloak of Darkness, Super Speed) or 36ft (Inflitration, Energy Cloak). Since most of those are from support sets, blaster manipulation sets, or armor sets, they won't be able to be used together anyway. The only ones we really need to worry about are Inflitration and Super Speed.

 

So my suggestion: leave Super Speed at 35ft and Infiltration at 36ft. Move all the ones from the sets to 37ft. That would remove all conflicts.

[Burk]

I have been testing some toons on test server. The only 35ft power I have not been able to verify conflict with Super Speed is Shinobi-Iri. Its possible it does, but since the conflict is really random, I may have not waited long enough. I also wasn't able to verify that Infiltration actually conflicts with Energy Cloak despite them both being 36ft. I have not noticed any conflicts with Mask Presence, Cloaking Device, Stealth, or Superior Invisibility, which wasn't surprising with them all having unique stealth radii.

[Wavicle]

Probably faster and easier though to just make Super Speed 37 and leave everything else.

[Burk]

Sure, but just for the principle of it, shouldn't primary and secondary powers be better than a pool power 😝?

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, Burk said:

Sure, but just for the principle of it, shouldn't primary and secondary powers be better than a pool power 😝?

well they are better, they do a bunch of other things. But yes, I agree. But…laziness, er I mean, efficiency!

[Astralock]

Either way, it would require raising the perception of 3* and 4* hard mode mobs to 68 feet as well.

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Astralock said:

Either way, it would require raising the perception of 3* and 4* hard mode mobs to 68 feet as well.

 

Why?

[Astralock]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

Why?

 

Because the perception of mobs in 3* and 4* hard modes was made 66 feet so they could see people using a 35 feet stealth power and a +stealth IO enhancement.  Bumping the stealth power to 37 feet would make that moot.

[Booper]

3 hours ago, Burk said:

Move all the ones from the sets to 37ft

And here I wanted to make it 35.01 and 36.01

[MistressOhm]

If the Stealth Radius variable isn't integer-typed, that should work.

Edited October 22, 2022 by MistressOhm