Super Speed

[termyt]

I don't intend for this to gather hate one way or the other.   I don't post a lot here because, overall, it's been a tremendously positive experience.  I know you are all volunteers and you are doing an excellent job of it.

 

But this has been really bothering me, so I need to say something.

 

You nerfed Super Speed.

 

You changed the nature of a power that's been around since the beginning and the only notice was a single line in the patch notes like it was nothing, an afterthought.  The feedback thread went unanswered.  That is not good.  The functionality lost is not terribly difficult to replace, but that's not the point.

 

That you changed how Super Speed works doesn't bother me near as much that you made a change to how something has worked since the early days of Live and didn't give us a reason for it and didn't answer our questions about it.  If you had a good reason, great.  Share it with the entire community.  Ignoring our concerns is not a path forward.

 

Thank you for your time and attention.  I really do love the game and am happy with what you've done with it.

[Psyonico]

I'm assuming you're taking about stealth not stacking?  If so, it wasn't a direct nerf to SS, it was a total revamp of the stealth mechanic.

 

Seeing as Super Speed was literally the only stealth power that would stack with other stealth powers, it seems to me it was more brought in line with everything else.

[Astralock]

8 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I'm assuming you're taking about stealth not stacking?  If so, it wasn't a direct nerf to SS, it was a total revamp of the stealth mechanic.

 

Seeing as Super Speed was literally the only stealth power that would stack with other stealth powers, it seems to me it was more brought in line with everything else.

 

Nah.  It was a direct nerf to Super Speed touted as a "quality of life upgrade."  Now where a +5 boosted generic endurance reduction IO could be slotted in Sprint on Dark Miasma/Darkest Affinity, Cold Domination, Storm Summoning, and Arachnos Widow characters, you have to slot a +stealth IO enhancement instead.  So you get to maintain the same amount of stealth, but now your endurance usage is higher.  That's a nerf.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Astralock

[Uun]

2 hours ago, termyt said:

You changed the nature of a power that's been around since the beginning and the only notice was a single line in the patch notes like it was nothing, an afterthought.  The feedback thread went unanswered.  That is not good.  The functionality lost is not terribly difficult to replace, but that's not the point.

 

That you changed how Super Speed works doesn't bother me near as much that you made a change to how something has worked since the early days of Live and didn't give us a reason for it and didn't answer our questions about it.  If you had a good reason, great.  Share it with the entire community.  Ignoring our concerns is not a path forward.

Along with the rest of Page 5, this change was posted to the Beta server several weeks before it went live. The feedback thread goes on for 4 pages and has several dev responses. Whether or not you agree with the change, it's disingenuous to suggest that the devs snuck this in.

 

[Zect]

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Seeing as Super Speed was literally the only stealth power that would stack with other stealth powers, it seems to me it was more brought in line with everything else.

 

Excellent explanation.

 

Powers need to work and interact with each other in clear, intuitive and consistent ways. If stealth powers stack - all of them should stack. If stealth powers do not stack - none of them should stack. Any intended exceptions should be clearly highlighted in the description as a special feature of the power in question. This change was necessary to ensure uniformity in power interactions. If SS is still disadvantaged vs other travel powers after this (it's not), it can be buffed.

 

I don't know why calling it a nerf is supposed to be some kind of argument against this change. Nerfs are both necessary and beneficial for the game, and a normal, expected part of game balance. Bravo to the devs for a great change.

[termyt]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Along with the rest of Page 5, this change was posted to the Beta server several weeks before it went live. The feedback thread goes on for 4 pages and has several dev responses. Whether or not you agree with the change, it's disingenuous to suggest that the devs snuck this in.

 

I did not suggest any such thing.  It is disingenuous to imply I have.  I said they nerfed Super Speed without an explanation as to why, which is exactly hat they did.  None of the dev replies in that thread give a justification.  They simply explain the change, how the system works, or provide an alternative to getting the same effect with a different build.

 

I didn't even explicitly disagree with the change.   I just requested a clear reasoning for a change to something that's been in place for so long.

 

47 minutes ago, Zect said:

 

Excellent explanation.

 

Powers need to work and interact with each other in clear, intuitive and consistent ways. If stealth powers stack - all of them should stack. If stealth powers do not stack - none of them should stack. Any intended exceptions should be clearly highlighted in the description as a special feature of the power in question. This change was necessary to ensure uniformity in power interactions. If SS is still disadvantaged vs other travel powers after this (it's not), it can be buffed.

 

I don't know why calling it a nerf is supposed to be some kind of argument against this change. Nerfs are both necessary and beneficial for the game, and a normal, expected part of game balance. Bravo to the devs for a great change.

I personally I never said a nerf was an argument against it.  My very post implies the exact opposite.  I requested a clear reasoning behind it, which was not given either in the patch notes or in the feedback thread.  They changed something that his been in place for 18 years.  An explanation specifically related to this change is not too much to ask for.

 

Super Speed is not a Stealth Power.  It was never flagged as such until now, some 18 years later.  There are thematic reasons for it being like that, which enhance the story and setting for super beings.  I'm of the exact opposite opinion on this.  I still wish Super Speeders didn't go into the "swim" emote when moving across water and could run up the sides of buildings.

[TheZag]

Id be down for the stealth from super speed to stack again while you are moving but the idea that you are so fast you become hard to see while standing still made absolutely no sense.

 

[lemming]

Yep, people who relied on Super Speed for stacking feel attacked.   At least it didn't get brought in line with Kinetics super speed equivalent since that doesn't give stealth.  (And the power pool version which I'm blanking on the name of)

 

I like the changes outside the Super Speed, but I also don't tend to rely on SS for anything.   I've been using teleport a lot more since the travel changes.

[DarionLeonidas]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:58 AM, termyt said:

I don't intend for this to gather hate one way or the other.   I don't post a lot here because, overall, it's been a tremendously positive experience.  I know you are all volunteers and you are doing an excellent job of it.

 

But this has been really bothering me, so I need to say something.

 

You nerfed Super Speed.

Oh, my friend, you don't know the half of it.

Super Speed was nerfed way back in Live with the Galactically Stupid "Travel Power Suppression" nerf.

 

Speaking as the guy who was accused of having invented "Jousting" in this game (and might have), I can tell you that there was a time when you could build a character as a Superspeedster and it played like a 6th Archetype (back when there were only five). Problem was, you had to get good at playing it that way, and people who couldn't be bothered complained that it wasn't fair that there was a powerset which could out-play button-mashing and macros if the player practiced it enough. 

 

Ah, well; water under the bridge. At least they raised the Top Speed on it back to the 120+ mph it was way back in Live. They nerfed that, too.

 

In any case, if your complaint is about the change to how Super Speed's Stealth works, well, that's just one more insult to add to the injuries; frankly, I think Jake Emmert played "Villains & Vigilantes" and hated Super Speed in that game, too, so he ordered it nerfed in CoH before he left for greener, slower pastures.  😄 

 

Believe me, the Devs here in Homecoming are doing a better job for us with Superspeedsters and showing us way more consideration than the Live team did. As least here, they actually listen.   🙂

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by DarionLeonidas
Added text

[Saiyajinzoningen]

As a long time user of super speed i too enjoyed stacking stealths. Whether it was laying landmines or sneaking like a stalker it was an alternative way to play. I get bringing all the powers in line, but didn';t they buff stealth in general so stacking was no longer strictly necessary? Also this may be the wrong place for it but if no stealths stack isn't high levels of perception pointless? tbh i know i'm gonna get attacked for this but i miss when stealth slowed you a bit so when stacked with super speed it was manageable in caves and ornabega and such (hides from the villagers with torches)