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Can Archery get some love? There's literally nothing it does different than any other set, and everything it does someone else does better.


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4 hours ago, Akisan said:

 

I'd be okay with Blazing Arrow being improved/replaced.  It used to be like having a second, uninterruptible snipe in the set (it did almost as much damage as Ranged Shot, with almost as much windup), but with Fast Snipes involved, it's fallen pretty far behind for DPA.  I'll also admit that the windup on it means I almost can't use it mid-fight if there are other DPS toons on the team - more often than not, the target's defeated before it goes off.

 

Ammo swap almost seems like it'd put the set too close to DP, but would be in-theme.  After all, they do make a *bunch* of arrowheads depending on what you're hunting, and envenomed arrows have been around for a long time.  Of course, you could dip *any* of said arrowheads in that venom, so envenom would probably be a separate selector based on what kind of venom you're using ([slow/hold]/sleep/DoT/-regen, for paralytic/sophomoric/acidic/necrotic venoms).

Then have Blazing Arrow improved such as by reducing its 'wind up'. Just like Rain of Arrows needs to have the aggro check fixed, it is something that can be done without need of replacing the power.

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On 12/15/2022 at 1:16 PM, Rudra said:

Then have Blazing Arrow improved such as by reducing its 'wind up'. Just like Rain of Arrows needs to have the aggro check fixed, it is something that can be done without need of replacing the power.

Are they able to reduce the wind up without redoing the animation?  I was hoping to keep any changes very simple and my limited understanding was that anything involving changing animations is a whole lot more complex.

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They would need to shorten the animation, or more likely, speed it up, to match the reduced animation time. (Edit: So technically, a new animation is not necessary. Speeding up the excessively slow draw animation of Blazing Arrow is sufficient.)

Edited by Rudra
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19 hours ago, Rudra said:

They would need to shorten the animation, or more likely, speed it up, to match the reduced animation time. (Edit: So technically, a new animation is not necessary. Speeding up the excessively slow draw animation of Blazing Arrow is sufficient.)

That's good to know!  I was under the impression from back in the OLD live days that anything that involved changin an animation was incredibly slow and tedious. If the paid developers couldn't afford to put in the time on animations, I certainly didn't want to ask it of unpaid volunteers.

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All Arrows should have a DoT like Throwing Knives but maybe a faster tic.

Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it just means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.

 

With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.

 

Let's Go Crack a Planet.

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Okay, I just got to make an very obvious, back-to-back comparison between Archery and other ranged sets. I have a group of characters that are a "team", and as such I'm keeping them all leveled together (as if they were actually working together and leveling up at the same time). I just got them all leveled from 39 to 40.

 

My Ice Blast sentinel went from 39 to 40 in about half the time it took my Archery blaster.

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That isn't saying much. How are the two slotted for enhancements? What are their attack chains? How many times do you use a secondary power versus primary power on that Blaster as compared to the Sentinel? How are you playing the two types in comparison to each other (as in are you more aggressive with one than the other)? There are lots of possible answers as to why something like that would happen.

Edited by Rudra
Edited to correct mispellings.
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The Archery blaster has one complete ATO set and 5/6 of the other, and Sting of the Manticore in her snipe. SOs otherwise.

 

Ice Blast sentinel has one complete ATO set and 3/6 of the other. Only other IOs are some procs for +Regen and +Recovery. SOs otherwise.

 

Blaster has the Darkness Manipulation secondary, only really uses the DMG aura and the two melee attacks.

 

Sentinel has only defensive secondary, obviously (Ice Armor).

 

Pool powers other than Flight:

 

Archer - Leadership: Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics; Munitions Mastery Epic Pool: Body Armor

 

Sentinel - Leadership: Assault; Psionic Mastery Epic Pool: Mind Probe (rarely used, as things just don't get into melee range that often)

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I made an archery blaster on a dare. I remember thinking this is gonna suck so bad. BUT i was wrong archery is actually pretty fun. Sure its not flashy and you dont get big numbers but its fast and efficient and effective. Archery is 100% viable and while not technically a power per se it still gets the job done. As far as speeding up the animation times (cast time) it's completely possible. They did it for total focus (energy melee). That being said archery is already one of the fastest powersets.

     ZetaForce              OmniForce            AquaForce          PsychoForce          RagnaForce        CosmicForce         MegaForce         MagnaForce
50 Brute Rad/Fire | 50 Stalker Em/Inv | 50 Corr Wa/St | 50 Dom Mind/Psi | 50 Scrap Tw/Elec | 50 PeaceBringer | 50 Blast Fire/Nin | 50 Blast Dp/Ma

                                                                              AND SO MANY MORE

   MetaForce        SigmaForce     MechaForce        TeslaForce          AntiForce          CryoForce           HyperForce         NecroForce        XenoForce
50 Sent En/Sr | 50 Brute Ele/Fi | 50 Sent Er/Inv | 50 Troll Elec/St | 50 Corr Ice/Kin | 50 MM Nin/Co | 50 Scrap Km/Rad | 50 Stal Bs/Sh | 50 Def Rad/Pain

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On 1/3/2023 at 9:10 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

I made an archery blaster on a dare. I remember thinking this is gonna suck so bad. BUT i was wrong archery is actually pretty fun. Sure its not flashy and you dont get big numbers but its fast and efficient and effective. Archery is 100% viable and while not technically a power per se it still gets the job done. As far as speeding up the animation times (cast time) it's completely possible. They did it for total focus (energy melee). That being said archery is already one of the fastest powersets.

All things can be fun, cause it's an incredibly fun game!  All builds are viable.  No one is disputing that.  The issue being addressed in this thread though is that it does not fall in line with other sets balance-wise due to several outdated "features" being either irrelevant or actually now a detriment, and it has NO special features to compensate for that.

 

We're just asking for a review of it, specifically the fact that a fairly typical repeatable attack chain will do less damage (in some cases MUCH less damage) than most other comparable power sets, and there are NO special effects to account for the difference since it is a 100% straight damage set.

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  • 2 weeks later
On 1/12/2023 at 7:11 PM, Willdabeastalt1 said:

This would at least be something!

i could see this working on organic targets like a bleed or poison effect but maybe not robots?

     ZetaForce              OmniForce            AquaForce          PsychoForce          RagnaForce        CosmicForce         MegaForce         MagnaForce
50 Brute Rad/Fire | 50 Stalker Em/Inv | 50 Corr Wa/St | 50 Dom Mind/Psi | 50 Scrap Tw/Elec | 50 PeaceBringer | 50 Blast Fire/Nin | 50 Blast Dp/Ma

                                                                              AND SO MANY MORE

   MetaForce        SigmaForce     MechaForce        TeslaForce          AntiForce          CryoForce           HyperForce         NecroForce        XenoForce
50 Sent En/Sr | 50 Brute Ele/Fi | 50 Sent Er/Inv | 50 Troll Elec/St | 50 Corr Ice/Kin | 50 MM Nin/Co | 50 Scrap Km/Rad | 50 Stal Bs/Sh | 50 Def Rad/Pain

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3 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i could see this working on organic targets like a bleed or poison effect but maybe not robots?

This ship has sailed.  Play a savage melee character, your DoTs will work on robots, Devouring Earth granites, ghosts, etc.

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I like the idea of a majority of attacks having a chance to immobilize a target. Its kind of difficult to move if you have an arrow going through your chest pinning you to a wall.

 

Additionally explosive arrow should do more damage than what it does. It feels lethargic. As an archer in real life I once drunkenly taped an explosive firework onto an arrow shaft. Ignited the fuse and fired the arrow. it was loud, disorienting, and ultimately put a hole in the roof of the shed. Damn arrow was super heavy so it arched downward quick, so I could see an explosive arrow suffering an accuracy penalty on lieu of increased damage.

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8 hours ago, aethereal said:

This ship has sailed.  Play a savage melee character, your DoTs will work on robots,

When the Council wises up and starts making their Mek Men out of the same material they make that damn bell out of, and they won't work any more; those bells would survive being at ground zero for Tsar Bomba and keep ringing...

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On 1/25/2023 at 10:23 AM, aethereal said:

This ship has sailed.  Play a savage melee character, your DoTs will work on robots, Devouring Earth granites, ghosts, etc.

uhhh bleed for organics, acid for non organics and silver tips for supernatural stuff?........really reaching here lol

     ZetaForce              OmniForce            AquaForce          PsychoForce          RagnaForce        CosmicForce         MegaForce         MagnaForce
50 Brute Rad/Fire | 50 Stalker Em/Inv | 50 Corr Wa/St | 50 Dom Mind/Psi | 50 Scrap Tw/Elec | 50 PeaceBringer | 50 Blast Fire/Nin | 50 Blast Dp/Ma

                                                                              AND SO MANY MORE

   MetaForce        SigmaForce     MechaForce        TeslaForce          AntiForce          CryoForce           HyperForce         NecroForce        XenoForce
50 Sent En/Sr | 50 Brute Ele/Fi | 50 Sent Er/Inv | 50 Troll Elec/St | 50 Corr Ice/Kin | 50 MM Nin/Co | 50 Scrap Km/Rad | 50 Stal Bs/Sh | 50 Def Rad/Pain

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