kheldians The (Almost) Complete guide to Kheldians

[Harakh]

10 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

What in Force of Will are you using hun? And what are the other power pools you already have?

 

 - Lauci x

Unleash Potential from FoW.

 

I'm more curious what pool combos you'd advice to accomplish soloing the harder mobs for pb since you don't advice FoW. Or I guess why do you see it as not useful for pb? I'm either unaware of some awesome combo or it's possible FoW can be useful for peacebringers and as such you might not want to turn people off it so quickly.

[Clam Leader]

3 hours ago, Harakh said:

Unleash Potential from FoW.

 

I'm more curious what pool combos you'd advice to accomplish soloing the harder mobs for pb since you don't advice FoW. Or I guess why do you see it as not useful for pb? I'm either unaware of some awesome combo or it's possible FoW can be useful for peacebringers and as such you might not want to turn people off it so quickly.

Theres nothing wrong with FoW realistically, the opportunity cost is just too high. You need 3 power slots (two of which wind up mostly dead) and a pool pick, and thats not even accounting for any slots you might want.

 

I myself used it for a while and loved it, but realizing I was investing so much for a situational power lead to alot more efficient building after the fact.

 

As for specific suggestions, PBs have so many good utility powers already I would look into those, or cross punch, I love me some cross punch.

[Harakh]

6 minutes ago, Clam Leader said:

Theres nothing wrong with FoW realistically, the opportunity cost is just too high. You need 3 power slots (two of which wind up mostly dead) and a pool pick, and thats not even accounting for any slots you might want.

 

I myself used it for a while and loved it, but realizing I was investing so much for a situational power lead to alot more efficient building after the fact.

 

As for specific suggestions, PBs have so many good utility powers already I would look into those, or cross punch, I love me some cross punch.

Appreciate you sharing your perspective on the use of UP from FoW. It definitely has its place in certain builds such as my ranged defense build. I wouldn't use it if I didn't build for defense however.

I've also seen a lot of talk about best PB dps chain and cross punch being in that chain. I've yet to try CP in my build, but would really like to try something new. My concern with switching out UP is then the soloing of harder content (I like to keep at max difficulty to bring some form of challenge to an easy game). Are you capable of soloing arachnos at max if so could you tell me how you do it without UP? If you've got the fix please open my eyes lord ^.^

 

**what was more efficient building? More dps?
 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Harakh

[Clam Leader]

13 hours ago, Harakh said:

Appreciate you sharing your perspective on the use of UP from FoW. It definitely has its place in certain builds such as my ranged defense build. I wouldn't use it if I didn't build for defense however.

I've also seen a lot of talk about best PB dps chain and cross punch being in that chain. I've yet to try CP in my build, but would really like to try something new. My concern with switching out UP is then the soloing of harder content (I like to keep at max difficulty to bring some form of challenge to an easy game). Are you capable of soloing arachnos at max if so could you tell me how you do it without UP? If you've got the fix please open my eyes lord ^.^

 

**what was more efficient building? More dps?
 

 

 

I just run a 0 defense changeling build and have solod most non-4 star content on +4×8. The key with Arachnos is just kill everything.

 

I actually happen to have an early trapdoor run to demonstrate.

 

 

 

also it appears my earlier build was the wrong version. This is the actual build O run.

 

 

Highlight_PB_v3.mxd

[Harakh]

4 minutes ago, Clam Leader said:

 

 

I just run a 0 defense changeling build and have solod most non-4 star content on +4×8. The key with Arachnos is just kill everything.

 

I actually happen to have an early trapdoor run to demonstrate.

 

 

 

also it appears my earlier build was the wrong version. This is the actual build O run.

 

 

Highlight_PB_v3.mxd 5.3 kB · 0 downloads

Im most certainly going to dig into your build and see what I can take away.

 

As for your tip on killing arachnos... There is more to it than that 😂 ... The endurance drain alone from arachnos and high energy resist I imagine would leave you drained of endurance before you can kill all the Mu. Do you mean "load up on inspirations, and kill"? Nothing wrong with that, although I tend to not rely on inspirations, not every single build, but I like to use them as a treat not a gap filler.

 

Either way your playstyle looks enjoyable, tyty for the share.

[Clam Leader]

49 minutes ago, Harakh said:

Im most certainly going to dig into your build and see what I can take away.

 

As for your tip on killing arachnos... There is more to it than that 😂 ... The endurance drain alone from arachnos and high energy resist I imagine would leave you drained of endurance before you can kill all the Mu. Do you mean "load up on inspirations, and kill"? Nothing wrong with that, although I tend to not rely on inspirations, not every single build, but I like to use them as a treat not a gap filler.

 

Either way your playstyle looks enjoyable, tyty for the share.

 

Nah, as shown in the video I just do enough damage and KD that they dont get a chance to attack my lack of defense. Between that and lightform and the many healing options Ive never had much trouble.

[Koopak]

I'll just pop in and add iv used a variant of @Clam Leader's build myself as well as a Warshade version, and yes it handles Arachnos casually. Thing is the Mu drain is oversold, i have several builds that are not end stable and intentionally run so that they run out of endurance in 2 minutes or less. Those builds kill enemies much MUCH slower than an optimized Kheld going ham, but as long as i prioritize the Mu and Tarantula Mistresses, iv never needed anything built specifically for them, at least not until I'm rocking a support AT with low damage.

Worst case you do crash, but you have no toggles to crash, and since Performance Shifter is in your nova and dwarf forms you can LITERALLY just spam shapeshift to recover endurance quickly. Since you don't care about toggles, a shifter proc, or an end tick is all you need to throw an attack. You will get an end tick about once every 2 seconds, and each performance shifter will tick every ~40 seconds assuming you never shape shift and if you do it'll proc quite often.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Koopak

[Harakh]

41 minutes ago, Clam Leader said:

 

Nah, as shown in the video I just do enough damage and KD that they dont get a chance to attack my lack of defense. Between that and lightform and the many healing options Ive never had much trouble.

Knock back doesn't work in Mu I believe.  But reading what Koopax said after you really shed some light.

 

I imagine there might be some tactics such as keeping range when crashed? Otherwise if you're continuously hit with -end / -recov you won't be able to activate shapeshifting forms.

31 minutes ago, Koopak said:

I'll just pop in and add iv used a variant of @Clam Leader's build myself as well as a Warshade version, and yes it handles Arachnos casually. Thing is the Mu drain is oversold, i have several builds that are not end stable and intentionally run so that they run out of endurance in 2 minutes or less. Those builds kill enemies much MUCH slower than an optimized Kheld going ham, but as long as i prioritize the Mu and Tarantula Mistresses, iv never needed anything built specifically for them, at least not until I'm rocking a support AT with low damage.

Worst case you do crash, but you have no toggles to crash, and since Performance Shifter is in your nova and dwarf forms you can LITERALLY just spam shapeshift to recover endurance quickly. Since you don't care about toggles, a shifter proc, or an end tick is all you need to throw an attack. You will get an end tick about once every 2 seconds, and each performance shifter will tick every ~40 seconds assuming you never shape shift and if you do it'll proc quite often.

Casually... What do you mean +4/x8 at its own pace?

[Koopak]

45 minutes ago, Harakh said:

Knock back doesn't work in Mu I believe.

It does, they just don't play the same animations normal humanoid enemies do and don't ragdoll. think of it like when you get hit with KB while flying, its less impactful but not nothing.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Harakh said:

I imagine there might be some tactics such as keeping range when crashed? Otherwise if you're continuously hit with -end / -recov you won't be able to activate shapeshifting forms.

Not so, -end only impacts your existing endurance so cant stop you from doing anything if you act before it hits you and -recovery can only negatively impact what i quoted if you fall below the 100% base. Given the VAST majority of Mu attacks ONLY apply -end, and the ones that do apply -recovery only last 4 seconds, you need to be facing multiple Mu Bosses before the -recovery becomes a critical issue.

Recovery% defines the time it takes to get an endurance tick, not how much endurance you actually get, you ALWAYS get 1/15th of your max endurance back on a tick. At base 100% that tick occurs once every 4 seconds, Clam's build brings it over 200% recovery which puts it at every 2 seconds.

Now consider the cost of shapeshifting, there is no activation cost, its just the first tick of its maintenance cost. Mids will show it uses .26 endurance per second, but it actually ticks twice a second, the activation cost of your transformation is 0.13 endurance BEFORE factoring in any endurance reductions you might have.

If I am not messing up my proc logic, the chance of a performance shifter proc occurring when you activate your transformation is about 25%, that means that on average you can pay 0.52 endurance to gain 10 endurance (or more if your max end is higher from accolades). This lets you bootstrap from a single endurance tick to a workable amount in about 4 server ticks, which is a fraction of a second. That is as much 'tactics' as you need, and that's only if you actually crash which is highly unlikely since if you are animation canceling to weave your powers, you are constantly rolling that performance shifter proc chance. As an aside this is why Power Transfer is in there as well, the PT proc actually alone means that this build can spam shape shift to heal at rate almost on par with Instant Healing on a regen scrapper.
 

 

45 minutes ago, Harakh said:

Casually... What do you mean +4/x8 at its own pace?

Casually = little effort. I only play on +4x8, i get bored at that difficulty, let alone anything lower.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Koopak

[Laucianna]

15 minutes ago, Koopak said:

It does, they just don't play the same animations normal humanoid enemies do and don't ragdoll. think of it like when you get hit with KB while flying, its less impactful but not nothing.

 

 

Not so, -end only impacts your existing endurance on cant stop you from doing anything if you act before it hits you and -recovery can only negatively impact what i quoted if you fall below the 100% base. Given the VAST majority of Mu attacks ONLY apply -end, and the ones that do apply -recovery only last 4 seconds, you need to be facing multiple Mu Bosses before the -recovery becomes a critical issue.

Recovery% defines the time it takes to get an endurance tick, not how much endurance you actually get, you ALWAYS get 1/15th of your max endurance back on a tick. At base 100% that tick occurs once every 4 seconds, Clam's build brings it over 200% recovery which puts it at every 2 seconds.

Now consider the cost of shapeshifting, there is no activation cost, its just the first tick of its maintenance cost. Mids will show it uses .26 endurance per second, but it actually ticks twice a second, the activation cost of your transformation is 0.13 endurance BEFORE factoring in any endurance reductions you might have.

If I am not messing up my proc logic, the chance of a performance shifter proc occurring when you activate your transformation is about 25%, that means that on average you can pay 0.52 endurance to gain 10 endurance (or more if your max end is higher from accolades). This lets you bootstrap from a single endurance tick to a workable amount in about 4 server ticks, which is a fraction of a second. That is as much 'tactics' as you need, and that's only if you actually crash which is highly unlikely since if you are animation canceling to weave your powers, you are constantly rolling that performance shifter proc chance. As an aside this is why Power Transfer is in there as well, the PT proc actually alone means that this build can spam shape shift to heal at rate almost on par with Instant Healing on a regen scrapper.
 

 

Casually = little effort. I only play on +4x8, i get bored at that difficulty, let alone anything lower.

Basically you shift forms so fast that you proc endurance faster then they can drain it whilst firing off attacks and killing them ❤️

 

 - Lauci McQueen XD

[Harakh]

19 minutes ago, Koopak said:

It does, they just don't play the same animations normal humanoid enemies do and don't ragdoll. think of it like when you get hit with KB while flying, its less impactful but not nothing.

 

 

Not so, -end only impacts your existing endurance on cant stop you from doing anything if you act before it hits you and -recovery can only negatively impact what i quoted if you fall below the 100% base. Given the VAST majority of Mu attacks ONLY apply -end, and the ones that do apply -recovery only last 4 seconds, you need to be facing multiple Mu Bosses before the -recovery becomes a critical issue.

Recovery% defines the time it takes to get an endurance tick, not how much endurance you actually get, you ALWAYS get 1/15th of your max endurance back on a tick. At base 100% that tick occurs once every 4 seconds, Clam's build brings it over 200% recovery which puts it at every 2 seconds.

Now consider the cost of shapeshifting, there is no activation cost, its just the first tick of its maintenance cost. Mids will show it uses .26 endurance per second, but it actually ticks twice a second, the activation cost of your transformation is 0.13 endurance BEFORE factoring in any endurance reductions you might have.

If I am not messing up my proc logic, the chance of a performance shifter proc occurring when you activate your transformation is about 25%, that means that on average you can pay 0.52 endurance to gain 10 endurance (or more if your max end is higher from accolades). This lets you bootstrap from a single endurance tick to a workable amount in about 4 server ticks, which is a fraction of a second. That is as much 'tactics' as you need, and that's only if you actually crash which is highly unlikely since if you are animation canceling to weave your powers, you are constantly rolling that performance shifter proc chance. As an aside this is why Power Transfer is in there as well, the PT proc actually alone means that this build can spam shape shift to heal at rate almost on par with Instant Healing on a regen scrapper.
 

 

Casually = little effort. I only play on +4x8, i get bored at that difficulty, let alone anything lower.

 

You hit that response on the nail thank you!!

 

Ill be trying a similar endurance set up next.

 

 

[Harakh]

6 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

Basically you shift forms so fast that you proc endurance faster then they can drain it whilst firing off attacks and killing them ❤️

 

 - Lauci McQueen XD

Excited to try this out ^.^

[Laucianna]

2 hours ago, Harakh said:

Excited to try this out ^.^

Let us know how it goes! And if you have extra tips make sure to let us know here ❤️

 

 - Lauci x

[Harakh]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:02 AM, Koopak said:

It does, they just don't play the same animations normal humanoid enemies do and don't ragdoll. think of it like when you get hit with KB while flying, its less impactful but not nothing.

 

 

Not so, -end only impacts your existing endurance so cant stop you from doing anything if you act before it hits you and -recovery can only negatively impact what i quoted if you fall below the 100% base. Given the VAST majority of Mu attacks ONLY apply -end, and the ones that do apply -recovery only last 4 seconds, you need to be facing multiple Mu Bosses before the -recovery becomes a critical issue.

Recovery% defines the time it takes to get an endurance tick, not how much endurance you actually get, you ALWAYS get 1/15th of your max endurance back on a tick. At base 100% that tick occurs once every 4 seconds, Clam's build brings it over 200% recovery which puts it at every 2 seconds.

Now consider the cost of shapeshifting, there is no activation cost, its just the first tick of its maintenance cost. Mids will show it uses .26 endurance per second, but it actually ticks twice a second, the activation cost of your transformation is 0.13 endurance BEFORE factoring in any endurance reductions you might have.

If I am not messing up my proc logic, the chance of a performance shifter proc occurring when you activate your transformation is about 25%, that means that on average you can pay 0.52 endurance to gain 10 endurance (or more if your max end is higher from accolades). This lets you bootstrap from a single endurance tick to a workable amount in about 4 server ticks, which is a fraction of a second. That is as much 'tactics' as you need, and that's only if you actually crash which is highly unlikely since if you are animation canceling to weave your powers, you are constantly rolling that performance shifter proc chance. As an aside this is why Power Transfer is in there as well, the PT proc actually alone means that this build can spam shape shift to heal at rate almost on par with Instant Healing on a regen scrapper.
 

 

Casually = little effort. I only play on +4x8, i get bored at that difficulty, let alone anything lower.

 

 

I just completed putting together a build very close to clams, and with just 1 mu boss and 1 lut I my end was zapped away with stuns constantly landing I needed dwarf to break free but couldn't. The -recovery was hitting often enough I couldn't do anything. Would you mind sharing your version of the build please? Feels really weak so far (at least the way Im playing it) compared to my defense build.

... attempting a few more tries and I just can't make it happen. Any knockback that is applied to Mu is negligible. As other mobs are hitting the floor they appear to keep on attack... so if kb is happening its not helping me.

This build has such little psi resist also makes it very difficult to leverage between Mu mobs, and psi mobs. If I pull them to a corner there is a some hope but still feeling off.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Harakh

[Laucianna]

19 hours ago, Harakh said:

 

 

I just completed putting together a build very close to clams, and with just 1 mu boss and 1 lut I my end was zapped away with stuns constantly landing I needed dwarf to break free but couldn't. The -recovery was hitting often enough I couldn't do anything. Would you mind sharing your version of the build please? Feels really weak so far (at least the way Im playing it) compared to my defense build.

... attempting a few more tries and I just can't make it happen. Any knockback that is applied to Mu is negligible. As other mobs are hitting the floor they appear to keep on attack... so if kb is happening its not helping me.

This build has such little psi resist also makes it very difficult to leverage between Mu mobs, and psi mobs. If I pull them to a corner there is a some hope but still feeling off.

 

 

I just tested my little modified version of the build too and whilst Rikti at +4/x8 solo were easy as ever, Arachnos on the same difficulty however were killer, would have to pop a purple to boost my def enough to make it all the way through.

 

 - Lauci x

[Harakh]

4 hours ago, Laucianna said:

I just tested my little modified version of the build too and whilst Rikti at +4/x8 solo were easy as ever, Arachnos on the same difficulty however were killer, would have to pop a purple to boost my def enough to make it all the way through.

 

 - Lauci x

 

 

O good its not just me >.<

 

Yes the build works great on non arachnos (and carnie) just like any other perma lightform build would.

 

I almost feel like Koopax has either a major modified build that just incorporates the +end recover factor, or you, Koopax, are so good with #'s you theory played the build in your mind hah. Shiet comedy aside @Koopak can you help us achieve your success pleeeeassseeeee.

 

@Clam Leader you were the original creator of the build in discussion. Are you able to shed any light on what we might be doing wrong?

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Harakh

[Koopak]

19 hours ago, Harakh said:

 

 

O good its not just me >.<

 

Yes the build works great on non arachnos (and carnie) just like any other perma lightform build would.

 

I almost feel like Koopax has either a major modified build that just incorporates the +end recover factor, or you, Koopax, are so good with #'s you theory played the build in your mind hah. Shiet comedy aside @Koopak can you help us achieve your success pleeeeassseeeee.

 

@Clam Leader you were the original creator of the build in discussion. Are you able to shed any light on what we might be doing wrong?

 

I'll need some time to break down exactly what I'm doing that's making it easy, ill get you some footage, but its been a hot minute so gotta get the rust off. Clam was the one who mained the build for the better part of a year until the nerf/exploit fix/bug fix came up and killed his desire.

On the flip side feel free to share your own footage, sometimes easier to critique than to look at my own play and figure out whats going right.

Edit: worth note in Clam's video Arachnos are one of the enemy groups, you can see how they barely constitute a speed bump

Edited December 31, 2023 by Koopak

[Clam Leader]

19 hours ago, Harakh said:

 

 

O good its not just me >.<

 

Yes the build works great on non arachnos (and carnie) just like any other perma lightform build would.

 

I almost feel like Koopax has either a major modified build that just incorporates the +end recover factor, or you, Koopax, are so good with #'s you theory played the build in your mind hah. Shiet comedy aside @Koopak can you help us achieve your success pleeeeassseeeee.

 

@Clam Leader you were the original creator of the build in discussion. Are you able to shed any light on what we might be doing wrong?

 

Ill be honest, I don't know what to tell you. I run ageless for end and do an animation cancel aoe chain of nova cone dwarf tp nova aoe dwarf flare solar flare/nuke for hard pulls. Letting me open by killing most mobs.

 

Then I run ageless core because even with perf shifter procs that chain eats like 50+ end in 3 seconds.

 

Then I animation cancel into quantumn flight anytime I feel like I might die and then reset the pull.

 

As Koopak said, I spent the better part of a year practicing different chains, from damage to substituting dwarf sublimation for dwarf smite when I needed healing. My goal was to make every little ounce of utility the build had available literally at anytime. Be it healing, phase shifting, tp, KD, etc.

[Koopak]

to add to the conversation, though, while i don't think its optimal, it is possible to make the play style slightly safer by taking specific defensive toggles. Ever since khelds got changed to suspend toggles rather than cancel them, toggles have now had limited value. This is because toggles dont drop immediately, they pulse a short lived buff periodically, anything with a duration for that pulsed buff of over 2 seconds is basically going to be up permanently as you will never spend more than a second and a half out of human form during your rotation.

The down side is this further ups the costs of both endurance and slotting. But before both Clam and I stopped digging into the playstyle back in february that was the branch i was diving into while he continued to optimize raw output.

Edited to avoid misinformation

Edited January 6 by Koopak

[Clam Leader]

So, with all the talk about Arachnos being an issue, I sat down and ran a few missions for the first time in nearly a year. Now, I'm extremely rusty but I can see why you would struggle.

You have to really play each pull smart against Arachnos on +4/x8. Corner pull, prioritize targets, and don't be afraid to pop a blue now and again. I never died, but there were a few times when, during the final window of ageless I had to pop a blue or two to keep my end up.

[Laucianna]

12 hours ago, Clam Leader said:

So, with all the talk about Arachnos being an issue, I sat down and ran a few missions for the first time in nearly a year. Now, I'm extremely rusty but I can see why you would struggle.

You have to really play each pull smart against Arachnos on +4/x8. Corner pull, prioritize targets, and don't be afraid to pop a blue now and again. I never died, but there were a few times when, during the final window of ageless I had to pop a blue or two to keep my end up.

I think it comes to just being aware of the threat they pose like with Incarnate Cims destroying what little Def you might have.

 

 - Lauci x

[Koopak]

eddited an above post to remove misinformation. Toggles do not linger, i believe that may have been me applying unsuppressed (turned off) toggle logic to suppressed toggles. Did some testing recently and confirmed suppressed toggles have their effects suppressed as well. Do have an exception ill be looking into soon though will follow up.

[Laucianna]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:12 PM, Koopak said:

eddited an above post to remove misinformation. Toggles do not linger, i believe that may have been me applying unsuppressed (turned off) toggle logic to suppressed toggles. Did some testing recently and confirmed suppressed toggles have their effects suppressed as well. Do have an exception ill be looking into soon though will follow up.

Keep me updated and I will update the guide with what you find ❤️

 

 - Lauci x

[Laucianna]

Updated 10/01/2024 - Added Moogs amazing Pylon run to show the potential of a PeaceBringer

[Koopak]

In case you weren't aware @Laucianna there's a solid lore write up for Kheldians on the wiki. It doesn't get EVERYTHING but its about 99% of the known lore. Theres lots more one could infer from the Kheld portion of the lore bible but what was actually implemented vs that is so different that even on the standard of the story bibles its very apocryphal and i recommend only mining it for personal character history some rather than trying to take it as canon.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Kheldian

 

Some added notes.

Explaining the concept of Epic ATs at the beginning and their origins as an unlock for veteran players may help set standards for new players.
BP -res is for Cold and Negative only.
 

Edited January 12 by Koopak