Weak NPC Follow in Some Rescue Missions

[RevDrDark]

It can be maddening at times to take a rescue mission, and the NPC(s) that you rescue lose track of you, if you take more than three steps, making you have to continuously go back to re-establish the "green name" link. Whereas, in other missions, the NPCs will have a crazy strong link, and follow your toon through leaps, wide gaps, and over uneven terrain. Why is this, and what can be done to fix it, i.e., make the mechanic strong across the board?

[Rudra]

The difference is combat versus non-combat NPC. Combat NPCs see through stealth and follow even through wide separation. As far as I can tell, so they can find you again after they run off to aggro on something nowhere near them. Non-combat NPCs lack the perception of combat NPCs and get lost, unable to find you if they blink or sneeze.

[Doc_Scorpion]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Non-combat NPCs lack the perception of combat NPCs and get lost, unable to find you if they blink or sneeze.

I find that toggling off Sprint and adopting take-a-step, wait-a-step, take-a-step movement (I.E. don't outrun the NPC in the first place) helps a great deal.  That being said, yeah, it's very annoying.

Increasing their speed somewhat and adding a bit of perception would definitely improve matters.

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

I find that toggling off Sprint and adopting take-a-step, wait-a-step, take-a-step movement (I.E. don't outrun the NPC in the first place) helps a great deal.  That being said, yeah, it's very annoying.

Increasing their speed somewhat and adding a bit of perception would definitely improve matters.

I've turned on Walk and still lost them. Surprisingly often, at a corner we are both at. Yeah, I know to advance, wait for them to get next to me again, advance, wait for them to reach me again, rinse, repeat all the way to the mission exit. That doesn't count the number of times the NPC following me would stop, run back two or three rooms to find their bearing again, and immediately be lost because they backtracked beyond tracking distance. So even advance and wait approaches don't always work. However, my comment was giving the explanation for why it was happening as requested in the OP. (Also, just for clarification, I don't use Sprint or any other travel power in a mission. Just my defensive powers. [And anything even remotely stealth-like gets turned off the moment the NPC is free.] There was no way for you to know that, but it means I don't have to turn off Sprint to try to avoid losing non-combat NPCs since it is never on.)

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to correct "to" to "don't".

[Captain Fabulous]

4 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Increasing their speed somewhat and adding a bit of perception would definitely improve matters.

Yeah, they should be able to see thru stealth and invis powers. I mean, I get why it was done this way, but it's more a hindrance than anything else, especially if you're a Stalker. Being able to teleport them would be great too.

[RikOz]

"Combat" NPCs aren't immune to this. I've lost count of the number of times Overdrive has aggroed on something way over on the opposite side of a gigantic warehouse room, only to immediately complain that she can't keep up with me. Frostfire and Miss Thystle are utterly incapable of keeping up with me. Likewise Silent Blade.

[Rudra]

Just like any NPC can for no apparent reason run back literally two or three rooms to find their spot for pathing, immediately losing "sight" of the player leading the NPC, combat NPCs can also aggro beyond their ability to track the NPC. The point of combat versus non-combat NPCs is that with very few exceptions, combat NPCs have sufficient perception to track the player even through stealth and follow at a long distance. (And most likely because of that perception, they see mobs the next continent over and aggro on them.) I've had Wretch just run off and aggro on mobs not even on the opposite side of the large sewer room we were in, but aggro on mobs down the hall that was across the large room we were in. And then come trotting back over when he was done. So combat NPCs have a much better ability to follow PCs because of their massive perception. As opposed to non-combat NPCs that can lose track of you at a corner with you standing with clear line of sight to them. Or the pathing problems on the Shadow Shard maps where non-combat and even some combat NPCs will just stop at an invisible obstruction and complain that they can't see you with you standing in their face.

[biostem]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:30 PM, RevDrDark said:

It can be maddening at times to take a rescue mission, and the NPC(s) that you rescue lose track of you, if you take more than three steps, making you have to continuously go back to re-establish the "green name" link. Whereas, in other missions, the NPCs will have a crazy strong link, and follow your toon through leaps, wide gaps, and over uneven terrain. Why is this, and what can be done to fix it, i.e., make the mechanic strong across the board?

It all comes down to pathing issues.  The NPC logic just isn't that advanced.  Frankly, I wish we could just "carry" them - even if it disabled our powers while doing so.  You just gotta take it slow and be patient, which is really annoying given the pace of the game everywhere else...

[Psyonico]

On 2/6/2023 at 3:53 PM, Captain Fabulous said:

Yeah, they should be able to see thru stealth and invis powers. I mean, I get why it was done this way, but it's more a hindrance than anything else, especially if you're a Stalker. Being able to teleport them would be great too.

Both of those would allow for a higher reward to risk ratio.

 

Basically, completing multiple missions by stealthing the NPC would be more rewarding than actually having to fight through a single mission.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Both of those would allow for a higher reward to risk ratio.

 

Basically, completing multiple missions by stealthing the NPC would be more rewarding than actually having to fight through a single mission.

Something that would be nice but is not likely to ever happen because it would require a complete revamp of the stealth system? Is if the NPC you are escorting auto-suppressed the stealth effects of powers of the character (s)he is currently following without requiring the player to turn them off. That way a Stalker or other stealth character can at least maintain their defense. Though I do admit, aside from the ambushes, the need for stealth power defense benefits is greatly mitigated by simply murdering everything on the map.

[biostem]

Imagine being able to just teleport target the hostage to the exit...

[Captain Fabulous]

5 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Both of those would allow for a higher reward to risk ratio.

 

Basically, completing multiple missions by stealthing the NPC would be more rewarding than actually having to fight through a single mission.

Do hostage missions give extra rewards? There's a reason I avoid paper/radio missions that have escorts. They take significantly longer to complete than defeat boss or retrieve item missions.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Do hostage missions give extra rewards?

Nope.

[Jacktar]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

Imagine being able to just teleport target the hostage to the exit...

Hi, do you mean like in the Moonfire TF when we have to rescue the doctor lady and you have a member at the exit door use ATT as soon as she is freed from captors?

That works so slick 😊