Thugs/Time optimized build

[Crysis]

14 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Teach me, Sensei! How do I grab my bulld from the game? Is there a file I'm looking for?

 

(of course, I robbed my Thugs/Time's enhancements a long time ago for my Beast/Time MM, which I actually like much better )

From in-game, once logged into your character, type in (no quotes) "/buildsave"

 

This puts the build of that current character into a folder called "Builds" that should be under your game directory>globalname>Builds.  For me that's C:\COH\Crysis\Builds  It's a flat text file called build.txt

 

Now open up Mids.  And use the File\Open command, point to that build.txt file and let Mids take care of rest.  Counter-intuitively, don't use the Import function....just the File/Open function.

 

It's -NOT- foolproof.  Sometimes (and I'm not sure why), it will skip over certain enhancements.  Superior ATO's seem to be particularly vulnerable.  Some enh may show up empty as a result and you'll have to manually re-slot them.  But I'd say it works 85% of the time with only slight re-slotting necessary.  

 

While I'm at it, I just exported my Thugs/Time build.  I didn't take him into iTrials as I've got a lot of toons I prefer playing more than this one, so just retired him at 50.  Cheap build, plenty sturdy (Ranged Def softcap), skipped all the primary attacks in favor of Epic Fireball.  He won't win any min/max awards, but it's a very easy to play AT beyond the basic difficulty of just playing a MM.  Feel free to borrow anything you want here.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Heat Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(5), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), BldMnd-Acc(21), BldMnd-Dmg(21)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(A), PcnoftheT-Acc/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(9), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(11), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), NmnCnv-Heal(23)
Level 4: Time's Juncture -- DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(A), DarWtcDsp-Slow%(5), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(15), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(23), EndRdx-I(31)
Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Call Enforcer -- CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(A), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(13), CaltoArm-Dmg/EndRdx(13), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(31), CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(15), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFrt-Def(33), RedFrt-EndRdx(34)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Rchg(17), Lck-Rchg/Hold(17), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39), Lck-%Hold(39), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 18: Gang War -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(19), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(19), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(25), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Super Speed -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 22: Time Stop -- Lck-Acc/Rchg(A), Lck-%Hold(46), Lck-Rchg/Hold(48), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48), Lck-Acc/Hold(48), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 26: Call Bruiser -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(27), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), BldMnd-Acc(40), BldMnd-Dmg(40)
Level 28: Farsight -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(29), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(29), RedFrt-Def(34), RedFrt-EndRdx(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(36), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(36), ShlBrk-%Dam(36), ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Bonfire -- PstBls-Dmg/Rng(A), PstBls-Dam%(42), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(42), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(43), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(46)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(45), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- RgnTss-Regen+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(7)
Level 1: Punk 
Level 1: Arsonist 
Level 26: Bruiser 
Level 12: Enforcer 
------------

Edited November 26, 2020 by Crysis

[Force Redux]

Thanks for the export info @Crysis!! 🙂👍🏻

[Verix]

17 hours ago, Force Redux said:

@Verix

 

I can try to put together my new build for you, its actually my Beast/Time but I can tweak it, they are 99% close to Thugs. 

 

 

On my Beast/Time I went with Leviathan for theme, but its still a good set with Shark Immobilization cone and Leviathan Armor (S/L/Cold...meh on Cold, but S/L is still good). 

 

Make sure to go with Musculature when you get your Alpha. Best bet for almost every MM.

If you had the time I would love some help with a build.... although honestly it looks like I was pretty heavily following a combination of the screenshot you posted earlier (with power slotting modifications from looking at other builds using the same sets).

 

It seemed like you had hinted before that Mu would be the better choice overall given how you said you were at the defense cap. On live way back when I was Dark/Bots with Leviathan. I got many laughs out of the giant shark hold. I remember loving the double hold option as it was a huge quality of life thing.

 

I really have no clue about the bonus slotting other than looking them up on the wiki - which might not be right. This is part of the reason why I did not take any direct attacks.  I really don't have a clue about the Incarnate slotting but I have some time for that as I'm not close to 50 yet.

 

I'm currently level 17 and things are going fine but I have two problems.

 

1. I don't have enough money to update the enhancements in my powers. ( I did what I could with some recipes and some cheap finds in the auction house).

2. I'm running out of endurance more often than I should but this is most likely due to the problem above because my endurance reduction mods are some of the mods in the red.

 

[Force Redux]

I can put something up later today.

[Verix]

I forgot to mention I am very open to any suggestions; if you think I should eventually slot something like the pistol power to get a ton of defense then that's probably a really good idea.

[Carnifax]

17 hours ago, Crysis said:

This puts the build of that current character into a folder called "Builds" that should be under your game directory>globalname>Builds.  For me that's C:\COH\Crysis\Builds  It's a flat text file called build.txt

 

Now open up Mids.  And use the File\Open command, point to that build.txt file and let Mids take care of rest.  Counter-intuitively, don't use the Import function....just the File/Open function.

 

It's -NOT- foolproof.  Sometimes (and I'm not sure why), it will skip over certain enhancements.  Superior ATO's seem to be particularly vulnerable.  Some enh may show up empty as a result and you'll have to manually re-slot them.  But I'd say it works 85% of the time with only slight re-slotting necessary.  

Tried this version and had similiar issues to Importing the build file. It seems to hit the ATO and throw an exception, blocking the rest of the load on me. 

 

I might download the source later and see if I can figure this out, at least make "I don't understand this IO" less fatal. 

[Crysis]

4 hours ago, Carnifax said:

Tried this version and had similiar issues to Importing the build file. It seems to hit the ATO and throw an exception, blocking the rest of the load on me. 

 

I might download the source later and see if I can figure this out, at least make "I don't understand this IO" less fatal. 

FWIW, I have almost a 100% success rate if I do the /buildsave before upgrading any ATO’s to Superior.  And even when it doesn’t successfully load the Suprieor ATO’s, if I just keep clearing the errors as the box pops up, it will still populate all my powers/slots in the right order and MOST of my IO’s thereafter.  

 

Definitely has indigestion with something, but it mostly works.  

[Carnifax]

2 hours ago, Crysis said:

FWIW, I have almost a 100% success rate if I do the /buildsave before upgrading any ATO’s to Superior.  And even when it doesn’t successfully load the Suprieor ATO’s, if I just keep clearing the errors as the box pops up, it will still populate all my powers/slots in the right order and MOST of my IO’s thereafter.  

 

Definitely has indigestion with something, but it mostly works.  

Nah, I stripped all the ATOs from my Fire/Claws tank and it gave me this. 

 

Weirdly I grabbed the code from Git and can't even find that error anywhere in there (I searched for "Sai", case sensitive, and nothing). I am admittedly terrible with Visual Studio mind. 

[Force Redux]

9 hours ago, Verix said:

I forgot to mention I am very open to any suggestions; if you think I should eventually slot something like the pistol power to get a ton of defense then that's probably a really good idea.

 

Here's a Mid's data chunk. Pets are just over soft cap. ITs a bit of an end-game build to shoot for, because I use a few Hami-Os, to save slots for more procs, but you can easily get by on standard crafted IOs, that's how good time is with thugs. I didn't put Pistol In, but you could swap out a hold for it and add a bit more to Ranged, but its all up to you. Time is busy enough you can ignore attacks if you like, or not. There's plenty to do usually. There are a million ways to build this, so feel free to tweak. I find I did not need to cap ranged if I had Time's Juncture going, as I typically don't get targeted due to the pets taking almost all aggro. The resist armor is there to bufffer my health when I do. This is my old build by memory. 

 

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Edited November 27, 2020 by Force Redux

[TheSpiritFox]

 

Alright this is my thugs/time. Not the most optimized, but still insanely effective. 

 

I don't do MM personal attacks, generally.  I could fit one in, I'd lose TP friend and have to reslot some stuff. 

 

Don't like time stop. Don't get much use out of it tbh. With the slow fields, the defenses, and the -tohit I haven't found that there's any particular use for a single target hold. Its not enough for AVs and anything less mostly can't resist the slows. Not taking a power just to deal with warwolves lol. 

 

But this build is pretty nuts with what it can do. Thugs are softcapped. Notice there's very little consideration given to personal defenses? Completely unnecessary. Send in the pets, cast bonfire as they run in, jump in and cast distortion field, fire off heal, wait for shit to die. This build is pretty close to unkillable in most content. The softcap plus times juncture gives me all the defenses I need to handle even incarnate content without any real issue before I actually fire off incarnate powers. Its got enough recovery to take barrier, musculature, etc. 

 

I think that my thugs slotting is about close to ideal if you need recharge in your build. You get your procs in enforcers, you get your full set of pet auras, you got 3 10% recharge bonuses just from pet slotting. My time and pool stuff, that can vary quite alot depending on build goals. But because thugs/time has zero mez protection, building it to tankermind is an overall bad idea. I built this build around pet tanks. They go in first they take the alpha. Sometimes I lose a minion, most of the time not. 

[Verix]

12 hours ago, Force Redux said:

 

Here's a Mid's data chunk.

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Thank you so much for posting that!

 

I noticed that the call enforcer skill had one blank power slot. Did you mean to leave it empty?

 

Slotting is : Nuculeolus Exposure, Mark of Supremacy Acc/DMG, Superior Mark Acc/DMG, *empty*, Touch of Lady Grey : Chance for negativ damage, Achilees Heel, Chance for Res Debuff.

 

 

 

[Force Redux]

Very welcome. Hmm, not sure what happened. Should be:

• Nucleolus Exposure (ACC/DAM)
• Superior Mark of Supremacy Acc/DMG
• Superior Mark of Supremacy Acc/DMG/END
• Shield Breaker : % for lethal damage
• Touch of Lady Grey : % for negative damage
• Achilles Heel. : % for Res Debuff

Shield Breaker is a flex spot, however. You could put a Gaussian there or something else.

•  

Edited November 28, 2020 by Force Redux

[Verix]

20 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Very welcome. Hmm, not sure what happened. Should be:

• Nucleolus Exposure (ACC/DAM)
• Superior Mark of Supremacy Acc/DMG
• Superior Mark of Supremacy Acc/DMG/END
• Shield Breaker : % for lethal damage
• Touch of Lady Grey : % for negative damage
• Achilles Heel. : % for Res Debuff

Shield Breaker is a flex spot, however. You could put a Gaussian there or something else.

 

Thank you for clarifying that... dunno why the program had it be blank.

 

I saw you put temporal selection in the build. Is that to help other healing powers (frankenstein)? Or did you use that skill to heal the Enforcer?

Edited November 29, 2020 by Verix

[Force Redux]

I like it for the bonus regen and Damage on Bruiser or the team tanks or high Damage dealers, but it's really skippable. But on teams I rarely use it TBH, I hate single target buffs. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Force Redux

[TheSpiritFox]

8 hours ago, Force Redux said:

I like it for the bonus regen and Damage on Bruiser or the team tanks or high Damage dealers, but it's really skippable. But on teams I rarely use it TBH, I hate single target buffs. 

Yeah I keep temporal selection up on my bruiser. It makes him far tankier in the aoe heal, the damage and regen are nice too. 

 

Honestly though I use temporal selection a ton because I think the animation is pretty and i like throwing it at teammates. 

[Verix]

I have my incarnate slots for everything except Hybrid unlocked - I have about 280 threads.

 

I got the first level of Musculature made (only from shards). Which do you think would be better : Radial or Core? I assume Core is the better option if End is not a problem.

 

So that means I could use my threads to go after the Destiny power next? I think Clarion might be the thing I need most right now.  From your write up it sounded like the 120 second option was better.

 

For Interface : Degenerative Radial seemed to be the best option.  ( I went ahead and crafted the first one with threads as it was an immediate passive gain).

 

For Hybrid : Support Core is the clear choice because of the double effectiveness for pets (I've often seen my pets go low on End)

 

For Judgement : I had planned on going with Ion as it seemed the simplest choice.

 

 

For Lore: I have no idea what pets might work best. Could one of the Giant Melee things be a good choice?

[TheSpiritFox]

49 minutes ago, Verix said:

I have my incarnate slots for everything except Hybrid unlocked - I have about 280 threads.

 

I got the first level of Musculature made (only from shards). Which do you think would be better : Radial or Core? I assume Core is the better option if End is not a problem.

 

So that means I could use my threads to go after the Destiny power next? I think Clarion might be the thing I need most right now.  From your write up it sounded like the 120 second option was better.

 

For Interface : Degenerative Radial seemed to be the best option.  ( I went ahead and crafted the first one with threads as it was an immediate passive gain).

 

For Hybrid : Support Core is the clear choice because of the double effectiveness for pets (I've often seen my pets go low on End)

 

For Judgement : I had planned on going with Ion as it seemed the simplest choice.

 

 

For Lore: I have no idea what pets might work best. Could one of the Giant Melee things be a good choice?

My thugs/time only runs out of end when I hit heavy end drain mobs or when I hit burnout. If you build it even halfway decently, endurance should not be a problem, especially at higher levels as chrono shift boosts your endurance recovery for a bit and with a high enough recharge build you can perma it and have like half uptime on the endurance boost (I think it lasts 30 seconds and you can get the recharge down to around a minute)

 

Musculature core, ESPECIALLY if you do not have a full attack chain that you are personally firing off. If you are actively shooting shit yourself, you might need to think about more to the point ageless might be worth it over barrier. Even if you need endurance I would take musculature core. You have a limited number of ways to increase your pet damage. Short of fulcrum shift and debuffs, there's not a ton you can do to kill things faster as an MM. Musculature core is too good to pass up in this regard generally, every single MM I have made has it. 

 

Destiny? I go with barrier. Mez honestly doesn't matter that much. It drops your toggle and prevents heals, but like your major powers should be fired off before a fight starts from buffs to distortion field or like bonfire going off as your pets take aggro and charge in. I find that the best way to avoid mez is to send the pets in and let them take the initial round of mez, then jump in after. Remember that mez has to hit you. Times juncture and farsight both help in this regard. But sending your pets in from you standing outside of mez range and jumping in after the initial mez volley gets fired off works better. Clarion can work, but you'll get more mileage out of being actually immortal for a solid 30 seconds with barrier core. Can't mez what you can't hit and even if that 5% gets through, you aint dying with barrier up standing in bodyguard like it will not happen until it drops all the way back down to the 5% bonus. If you were going to pick a second option, incandescence is fun and pretty sure it teleports your pets to you. Ageless if you need end that badly or are facing incarnate mobs with heavy defense debuffs. 

 

Interface? Degen is best for AVs, reactive is best for everything else overall. With MMs it is the one time that taking radial over taking core is a solid bet, MMs especially thugs throw out such a large number of attacks that you will easily stack the buff on a single target with them all attacking it while also doing a solid DPS increase in proc damage. Nothing else comes close to throwing out the sheer number of attacks MMs do. But the -tohit one is solid for survival as well.  Want to laugh at every single lvl 54 mob in the game as it flails helplessly at you? Take the -tohit interface. 

 

Support core is the best choice for MMs. Solid little buff to pets. Control core is almost useless. Niche power that doesn't help often or well for you. Melee core is actually a super solid choice. Your damage gets mitigated before it gets split. If you have  75% resistance, that applies, then the damage is split between you and pets after. If you make a tankermind that takes provoke, melee core is a solid choice for keeping you alive through it. Assault core is both great and terrible. Doublehit on MMs is kinda fucking nuts and hilarious, but having to summon your entire army after activating the power loses you some of it's use time and makes it a pain in the ass of the kind that you'll either spend alot of time resummoning just to justify having taken it, or not use it much outside of pylon tests and av fights. 

 

Judgement? You're going to be in melee alot, so a PBAOE incarnate isn't a terrible idea, but Ion is the best and will remain the best because no other judgement does nearly as much aoe damage as that fire and forget hilarity. Ion is "I don't wanna think about this, I just wanna kill everything in the room"

 

Lore? If you want performance, go longbow. The -regen on a -regen light toon like /times will enable you to chew down AVs alot faster. If you build this out well you legit won't actually need your lore to handle pretty much anything else. 

 

If you don't care about performance literally pick anything you want. Lores got rebalanced at some point, they're all pretty good now from what I understand. Either take longbow, or take something that matches your character concept. 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[Verix]

Another question  about the build you posted for me - (btw Im not even fully slotted for all the things and it works great with what I have).

 

What makes Analyze weakness so much better than going for the 11% accuracy from slotting : shield breaker defense buff?

[TheSpiritFox]

7 minutes ago, Verix said:

Another question  about the build you posted for me - (btw Im not even fully slotted for all the things and it works great with what I have).

 

What makes Analyze weakness so much better than going for the 11% accuracy from slotting : shield breaker defense buff?

If you were talking to me, I don't have analyze weakness anywhere in my build lol. I picked most of my sets for straight recharge. I wanted my buffs perma, wanted stackable distortion fields, etc. 

[Verix]

55 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

If you were talking to me, I don't have analyze weakness anywhere in my build lol. I picked most of my sets for straight recharge. I wanted my buffs perma, wanted stackable distortion fields, etc. 

Oh no sorry, I was asking Force Redux about the build he posted the other day for Mids.

[Force Redux]

4 hours ago, Verix said:

Oh no sorry, I was asking Force Redux about the build he posted the other day for Mids.

I'll have to look at Mid's and compare why I made that choice. I think you'd be fine either way TBH.

[Verix]

4 hours ago, Force Redux said:

I'll have to look at Mid's and compare why I made that choice. I think you'd be fine either way TBH.

Well this is really more of me trying to figure out how to fish for myself.

 

I was also looking into replacing one of the nucleolus exposures for the bruiser with a  superior mark of supremacy from the enforcer. 

 

With the other change I mentioned that would make for a +21% permanent accuracy boost, no?

 

 

-Another swapping question :

 

On the Call Thugs power if I swap out  Nucleolus Exposure for Sovereign Right : Accuracy/Damage  there is a minimal loss (both are still in the red) and I can gain regeneration. Now my question is would the Thugs gain regeneration since I have a 2 piece set bonus slotted there too? Or would that only affect me.

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Verix

[Verix]

9 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Lore? If you want performance, go longbow. The -regen on a -regen light toon like /times will enable you to chew down AVs alot faster. If you build this out well you legit won't actually need your lore to handle pretty much anything else.

I'm guessing in conjunction with Time Crawl that would be a huge help! Thank you for that write up.

 

I guess I will have to steal some Longbow bots.

[Force Redux]

5 hours ago, Verix said:

Well this is really more of me trying to figure out how to fish for myself.

 

I was also looking into replacing one of the nucleolus exposures for the bruiser with a  superior mark of supremacy from the enforcer. 

 

With the other change I mentioned that would make for a +21% permanent accuracy boost, no?

 

 

-Another swapping question :

 

On the Call Thugs power if I swap out  Nucleolus Exposure for Sovereign Right : Accuracy/Damage  there is a minimal loss (both are still in the red) and I can gain regeneration. Now my question is would the Thugs gain regeneration since I have a 2 piece set bonus slotted there too? Or would that only affect me.

 

Set bonus is only applied to you unfortunately not the pets. I generally don't seek out damage bonus regeneration bonus etc for that reason.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Force Redux

[Force Redux]

17 hours ago, Verix said:

Oh no sorry, I was asking Force Redux about the build he posted the other day for Mids.

That's a mistake, should be Shield Breaker for the proc and defense bonuses