Jump to content

Thugs/Time optimized build


snow61

Recommended Posts

I am trying to build a defense soft-capped build without using Power Boost while still doing the most damage I can.  So far this is where I am but you will notice that there is a lot of empty and/or unassigned slots.  I would love any recommendations for upping my damage while maintaining my ability to be soft-capped to positional damage.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why do you not want powerboost? besides the fact you need scorpion shield to self cap, aoe immobs are a godsend to help mitigate the messiness of mm combat.

 

in order to do what you are asking you will have to slot two defense io's in the enforcers. this will prevent you from getting their damage, acc and end costs in line and prevent you from slotting achilles heel in them as well. with powerboost you don't need to enhance the enforcers maneuvers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with Power Boost is that it is available for such a short amount of the level range.  That means anytime I would be examplared below it I would compromise my defensive abilities for some additional offense.  I would much rather stay alive and be slower than have more offense but a hole in my defense.  Just the way I play.

 

Additionally while solo, I mostly play as a tankermind.  Since I take the brunt of the alpha having soft-capped defense at lower levels is fairly necessary when playing in an upgraded difficulty.  Additionally, with me taking the alpha, the need for soft-capped defenses on the pets themselves is reduced and as such I don't see a need to slot the Level 2 pets with any Defense IOs.

 

Also I don't need scorpion shield to self cap anything.  The build I posted is self-capped to all positional defense attacks without the need for Scorpion Shield.  What I was hoping for advice on was there any key sets that I forgot about that would allow me to change the slotting of my Pets to open up the offensive game a bit.

 

Just my 2 cents.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later

Posted a build earlier today but took it down due to the fact that I remembered that I had to switch it out because Pines was allowing Power Boost with no pre-requisite powers.  The below build has soft capped defenses (with Power Boost) and no hasten.  I could fit Hasten in as my 49th power or could add maneuvers with another LoTG but wasn't sure which direction I wanted to go since in most cases 160% global recharge is sufficient for me (Chrono Shift isn't currently perma however it seems to be the only power that I would even care to come back any quicker).  Any and all feedback is appreciated for further optimization.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Level 50 Science Mastermind

Primary Power Set: Thugs

Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Presence

Power Pool: Fighting

Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

 

Villain Profile:

Level 1: Call Thugs -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(7), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(9), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), BldMnd-Acc(11), BldMnd-Dmg(11)

Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)

Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-Heal(7)

Level 4: Time's Juncture -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(42), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(42), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(42)

Level 6: Equip Thugs -- RechRdx-I(A)

Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)

Level 10: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)

Level 12: Call Enforcer -- SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(A), SprMarofS-Dmg(13), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(13), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(15), TchofLadG-%Dam(15), AchHee-ResDeb%(17)

Level 14: Provoke -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(43), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(46), MckBrt-Rchg(48)

Level 16: Distortion Field -- GldNet-Acc/Hold(A), GldNet-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(17), GldNet-Acc/Rchg(37), GldNet-Rchg/Hold(37), GldNet-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37), GldNet-Dam%(40)

Level 18: Gang War -- SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(A), SvrRgh-PetResDam(19), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), EdcoftheM-PetDef(23)

Level 20: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)

Level 22: Time Stop -- GldNet-Acc/Hold(A), GldNet-Acc/Rchg(23), GldNet-Rchg/Hold(25), GldNet-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), GldNet-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48), GldNet-Dam%(48)

Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(25)

Level 26: Call Bruiser -- SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(27), ExpStr-Dam%(33), SlbAll-Build%(33), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(33)

Level 28: Farsight -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/Rchg(29), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-Def(31)

Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFrt-Def(36), RedFrt-EndRdx(36)

Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- RechRdx-I(A)

Level 35: Slowed Response -- Acc-I(A)

Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal(40), Pnc-Heal/+End(40)

Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)

Level 44: Web Envelope -- TraoftheH-Dam%(A), TraoftheH-Acc/EndRdx(45), TraoftheH-Immob/Acc(45), TraoftheH-EndRdx/Immob(45), TraoftheH-Acc/Rchg(46), TraoftheH-Acc/Immob/Rchg(46)

Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)

Level 49: Mace Beam Volley -- Acc-I(A)

Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)

Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)

Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)

Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(50), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(50)

------------

 

 

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1461;653;1306;HEX;|
|78DA6594CB6F125114C6EFC0502C8502A5401F50682B165B0B45DD574BAB9B92342|
|9565D35844E6194570A2476E9C27F4013EBE37F70A9AD3B63B4AD896B35BED29D7D|
|0055E31A8F733E0BC94C32F931DFB9E79CEF9EB943E2CEACF5D9D5BBD34272C473A|
|9727939912A5794B5BC5A58312FA655A590568C822E33DDDE566C79B19ACF170B91|
|64B69A290FB7E933D5D5D54852CD2B54A8A096AAB954452D168475A158CC45E6955|
|4492D649CDA437BDCA62957D44CB64271FBFFC52BCA5A39AB967C7325351D696B92|
|48A515185DEF236321BA5F9B04AEA6491C1062B2E838649E3A026B4C4B1D6C303FB|
|84F72851860ED236912EA4935A3A6198EC043A67C00EE333B7E303F51AE91738DC6|
|E7064D3BBB096E812F996FC8B709BD4D13DCDB43D3364BAC99DD92A67949EBC4BAC|
|E30AFDBA6C42E78ECBA296B9A35092E31BBAF83EFA95FAF2C1CAF882E590C503D1B|
|726D59F632AE82B7C0DBCCC91C339A677EA6FDD9916BBFC47B76C499A72F8333E02|
|C736C8EB9439E9DC875EEB2D6F387F7D3F3969F7BB7C11DA6679FE2633477F2ECC2|
|0C5CF7D8CB17F2E2463D37BC78E0A10F1E46E12D0A2F517831523D2FCF59F2FEFBE|
|1A79CF31CDB259FFDA8DB7F8D673870039CE6DEC1759E65308EE73DCEFD4A8606B9|
|AE69F0376BBE5FE04FE6D031D800EB384BE4C98F5C3FDEFDB005EC026DCCD16ED0C|
|E7C479E03984F0067E91B7919813682B3FD9DB4107A847CDCF78C1F1C0203786F41|
|7098B94908A35E18FE5E903681594D3C65EDDC23F031B8C19C7C083E61D6AD42443|
|8578AC0730CDCA2BA53E83505EF3EB9ED5B6DD225C675CA944E89E9940B3AE5A24E|
|99D7298996D25C904FFE2184A4453B1D27DF7DB366A1A8D41E6DB42B4BD8BD6ED57|
|14B31481B7CAE62F7C107CCBF85BAF56A|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later

I´m building an MM almost exactly like this but I have to ask, is knock-back/stun an issue for you?

I heard somewhere that MM´s Achilles heel are Stuns and KB´s so that´s why I´m asking.

I have slotted for Acrobatics while I am leveling, in order not to get stunned so much, but plan to respec at 47.

 

Was fooling around with Ice as Epic in Pine´s Planner as well which has some benefit, higher overall def, but more negatives; lower def than Ice when Power Boost is active, not as good offensive powers as Mace (although I love Hibernate) and also not a fan of having to auto cast Power Boost every so often. If there was someway to maybe make a macro perhaps to cast it while casting something else it wouldn't feel so intrusive.

 

What ya think (feel free to specify as I am still very much a noob to CoH)?

Edited by grussen69
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW my Thus/Time doesn't use Power Boost, and is softcapped to Range and has 35-ish to Melee and AoE before factoring in Time's Juncture -ToHit. The Thugs are iCapped to all positions. 

 

I have Mu Mastery and like 50+% resists to S/L and Energy damage. 

 

Very safe. I farm +4/x8 farms no issues.

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, not a current build, but I do have an older one in Mid's.

 

Drop the the Steadfast and Gladiator defense procs in the armor. Grab electric fence for immob. 

 

I used to be a huge Mace/Scorpion Shield fan, a also PB, but I realized these were unnecessary for my MMs. Plus the Web Envelope is too slow to activate and doesn't have the -KB like Electric Fence does. 

 

And the less clicks the better, so no Power Boost.

 

If I get time I'll try to post a more current build. Or at least a screenshot of the powers.

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is great info, it also leaves a slot over; maybe for Maneuvers or Assault?

Maneuvers seems like the go-to choice for added Def  for both myself, teammates and Pets yes?

 

I thought about instead taking Temporal Selection but it feels a bit overkill due to having Chrono Shift at 38 (am at Level 39 currently). I have a Fire/Kinetic Controller at 50 and although I do have Speed Boost at that toon it feels similar in a way; Fulcrum Shift like Chrono Shift seems just so much better, despite the faster recast speed of the lower level powers.

As stated before I´m not a fan of builds that needs constant recasting; I´m happy with the "click and forget" mentality especially since my prime time is on US evenings which is why I play on the American server instead of the European even though it gives me a hefty dose of lagg.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maneuvers is great for MMs for extra Def. It's a terrific power, in general, and I take it on all my characters regardless of AT.

 

I don't take temporal selection usually, unless I'm swimming in power choices.

 

Time can get a little clicky if you also add hasten and destiny (typically Clarion) to Farsight. But MMs can typically get away without hasten IMO.

Edited by Force Redux

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see a lot of people still using Pines and well, it's far far behind what HC is. The closest thing you should be using now is:


That said, I just wanted to drop my own build that breezes through content and capitalizes on minion procs. It sits at 40% defense to most, just about 45% to melee, and with Time's Juncture and Enforcers, you're way over that. I prefer Leviathan Mastery myself as it's some nice damage for an MM, but Mu works too; In my opinion Power Boost is really wasted on a MM as you don't have a primary to boost. No Temporal Selection because it does nothing supportive besides boost the regen for your henchmen, so you don't have to worry about another thing to click. Just worry about Farsight, Chrono, Hasten, and Mending and the rest will take care of itself.
Stuns and Knockbacks are annoying sure, but with all the Defense and -ToHit /Time has, you don't worry about it, because unless your entire henchmen army is stunned, you have nothing to worry about.

 

MM_ThugsTime_NoTempSelec.mxd

Edited by Hopestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/24/2020 at 3:49 PM, Hopestar said:

I see a lot of people still using Pines and well, it's far far behind what HC is. The closest thing you should be using now is:

So this is what players refer to when they say "Mids".

I had no idea, I thought it was the old "Mids Hero/Villain designer" which was sorely behind in updates and instead used "Pines".

Great info.

 

Leviathan seems like an interesting choice but I think I will eventually go with Mu. Now reached 41 so it´s time to switch to Rogue and do the Villain Mission to unlock Red Side Epic Power.

Thanks all for the help.

 

Edited by grussen69
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/29/2020 at 12:07 PM, Force Redux said:

@grussen69 Time is just that wonderful for MMs.

Yes I love it.

Time seems well suited for Pets that don't spread and don't attack from a long distance, just similar to Thugs and Beasts.

The slow mechanism auras are the cherry on top of the cake.

In CoX I had a Robo/Dark MM and the latter seems better suited for long range pets just like Robots.

 

Level 49 1/2 now 😃.

Anyways, awaiting your build with interest.

 

Edited by grussen69
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the updated pet AI, use of GoTo or Stay means pets don't scatter like they used to. Much easier to support them with all secondaries, as they keep a closer formation. #happyMM

 

I'll be on my laptop to post the build in a few hours. If you want to see my build in action, welcome to join me on Everlasting anytime. My global is in my sig!

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a screenie of my power selectxion (Fitness and Flight pools are not shown, but they aren't particularly noteworthy). With Farsight up, I'm about 42% Ranged, which has been tough enough that I'm in no danger of dying on anything, from an AE farm to a TinPex (except the sewer portion). Its not perfect, there are areas for minor tweaks (such as Charged Armor, where I could change some IOs to get a bit better END REC for example, or move OF % KD to Gang War etc), but its proven to be a solid and favorite build/character. 

ThugTime.jpg

Edited by Force Redux

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thx so much for posting this.

 

I´ll try to figure out which each enchantment is but now I got the general idea.

I´ll run it by Mid´s tomorrow and see if I can get the numbers to match.

 

Again, thx for taking the time to show me the build 😃

Edited by grussen69
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later
On 5/29/2020 at 1:25 PM, Force Redux said:

Here's a screenie of my power selectxion (Fitness and Flight pools are not shown, but they aren't particularly noteworthy). With Farsight up, I'm about 42% Ranged, which has been tough enough that I'm in no danger of dying on anything, from an AE farm to a TinPex (except the sewer portion). Its not perfect, there are areas for minor tweaks (such as Charged Armor, where I could change some IOs to get a bit better END REC for example, or move OF % KD to Gang War etc), but its proven to be a solid and favorite build/character. 

ThugTime.jpg

Why did you slot dual wield so heavily? was this to slot KD? 

 

-Sorry in advance.... been away from the game for a decade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Verix Hi. I slotted DW for the Ranged Defense bonus! 🙂

 

This is actually a pretty old build, I've done some things a bit different, although DW is still slotted with THunderstrike. 

Edited by Force Redux

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/29/2020 at 4:52 PM, Force Redux said:

Very welcome. I had a really old build in Mid's and thus didn't post it. If you have any questions, just holler. 

It’s very easy to export your build from in-game these days, then pull it right into MIDS and do a forum export from there to here.  I do it all the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Crysis said:

It’s very easy to export your build from in-game these days, then pull it right into MIDS and do a forum export from there to here.  I do it all the time.

Teach me, Sensei! How do I grab my bulld from the game? Is there a file I'm looking for?

 

(of course, I robbed my Thugs/Time's enhancements a long time ago for my Beast/Time MM, which I actually like much better )

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2020 at 9:23 PM, Force Redux said:

@Verix Hi. I slotted DW for the Ranged Defense bonus! 🙂

 

This is actually a pretty old build, I've done some things a bit different, although DW is still slotted with THunderstrike. 

 

For the moment I am working on a leveling build (so no thugs pistol attacks - just using the minions for now). I'd like for this build to be able to handle some really difficult content that I might not have gotten to do when I played on live.

 

Interestingly enough I had already decided to go with  super speed/hasten along with leadership: tactics/maneuvers before I saw your build.  I had planned on skipping Assault/Vengeance and Temporal selection (unless something has changed or there is something I do not know about I imagine the math on these for pets is still really terrible).

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on the mu/mace differences.  I am guessing that the resistance aspect of Mu works out better than the defense from Mace Mastery?

 

What do you have slotted in Electric fences?  This is one power I definitely plan on replacing because I always loved being able to put 2 hold abilities on a boss (sawpping for electric shackles) unless that is no longer a necessary mechanic.

 

My friend is playing a plant dominator with psychic so I really don't think I will be needing an AoE root.

 

 

 

Would it be possible to have invisibility as part of the build as a power I might want to use? Can I slot the defense buffs there instead of inside the dual pistol skill? Wait is that not even necessary with the stealth celerity modifier?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Verix

 

Yes, if you slot Celerity stealth IO into Super Speed, you are definitely 'invisible' to most things. I've never dipped into invisibility for any reason and I don't think you should have to for your Thugs/Time. 


I can try to put together my new build for you, its actually my Beast/Time but I can tweak it, they are 99% close to Thugs. 

 

I used to be able to run +4/x8 S/L farms with my Thugs/Time (and I still do with other characters, including my Beast/Time). Time makes that very possible. Time is wonderful. 

 

Yes, I get the most 'bang for my buck' out of Speed/Hasten, then Maneuvers/Tactics, and then Travel Pool of choice (I like Hover/Fly/Afterburner).  Right there are three places to slot a LOTG global recharge IO. With Far sight you have a 4th spot. You don't need to pursue a 5th spot for it, as you aren't trying to get Perma Phantom Army or anything and Time gives plenty of extra global.

 

Temporal Selection is nice but not necessary. If I had room to take it I'd put it on the Brute or the Arsonist. Arsonist does live longer these days due to the AI, but he's still more vulnerable.

 

Mace is a solid pick. I used to like it, but I have not taken it on any characters since Live. I find Time already boosts Defense a lot and I build for Ranged Defense cap, myself.  Melee doesn't matter too much. Your -ToHit from Time's Juncture will make sure to cover the gap to the 'cap' for anything that somehow ignores your pets and goes for you. Plus with all the slows, holds, etc, you don't generally worry about melee. Mace is solid, however. You'd cap out S/L/E easily. But you have no resistances. So when you do get hit, it hurts. Hence, I prefer to cap Ranged (easy enough) and have a resistance shield, such as Mu. Then add in two +3% global Defense IOs for an extra +6 DEF on top of your other Defense.  Mu gives you a solid layer of protection against many end-game attacks.

 

On my Beast/Time I went with Leviathan for theme, but its still a good set with Shark Immobilization cone and Leviathan Armor (S/L/Cold...meh on Cold, but S/L is still good). 

 

You don't really need Elec Fences. You can double Hold runners, as you say, or bosses/annyoing stuff. Elec Fences has a small radius anyway and only the Brute really knocks anything back. So that's a fine approach to go with two holds. Don't forget to put a Lockdown Hold proc into Distortion Field. IT will help stack up on things and is good for freezing minions. 

 

Make sure to go with Musculature when you get your Alpha. Best bet for almost every MM. 

 

Have fun!

@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...