Cold Domination vs Radiation Emission

[Scarlet Shocker]

I see a lot of folks extolling the virtues of Cold Domination especially when taking down big bad nasties such as AVs.

 

I remember wondering about that and doing a comparison with Rad Emission and (from memory) it seemed Rad was better at debuffing and also did not waste powers on shields which is something Cold does well.

 

So from the perspective of debuffing a tough enemy - think EB/AV, which is better and why? I'm thinking of an MM or a Controller - I have a concept or two in mind but I want to know what the actual numbers are. I feel like I'm missing something.

 

 

[Major_Decoy]

Simply from looking at the recharge times of Lingering Radiation and Benumb, I'm going to have to say Radiation is better.

[Astralock]

46 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I see a lot of folks extolling the virtues of Cold Domination especially when taking down big bad nasties such as AVs.

 

I remember wondering about that and doing a comparison with Rad Emission and (from memory) it seemed Rad was better at debuffing and also did not waste powers on shields which is something Cold does well.

 

So from the perspective of debuffing a tough enemy - think EB/AV, which is better and why? I'm thinking of an MM or a Controller - I have a concept or two in mind but I want to know what the actual numbers are. I feel like I'm missing something.

 

 

 

Radiation Emission is a great power set, but it's seen by a lot of hard mode runners as "not nearly as valuable" as Cold Domination for four reasons.

 

• Up until Page Four, Radiation Emission's debuff toggles were as slow as molasses.  Thankfully, Radiation Infection was sped up in Page Four.
• Cold Domination offers +defense, which is very valuable in hard modes and Incarnate trials.
• Radiation Emission only offers -30% resistance on Defenders, -22.5% resistance on Controllers/Corruptors/Masterminds.  On the other hand, Cold Domination offers -60% resistance on Defenders, and -54% resistance on Controllers/Corruptors/Masterminds.  (Yeah, Sleet and Heat Loss are kind of OP on Controllers/Corruptors/Masterminds.)  This is the big one.
• Cold Domination also gives endurance to your team via Heat Loss.

 

In all honesty, both will do great at debuffing an AV or GM.  Cold will be slightly better, but in the end, it really doesn't matter.  Many hard mode runners may poo-poo Rad Emission, but they will pretty much poo-poo anything that isn't Cold Domination, Nature Affinity, Thermal Radiation, or Kinetics, so take it with a large grain of salt.

 

FWIW, Radiation Emission is seen as not that great on Masterminds because the +recharge from Accelerate Metabolism does nothing on your henchmen, and Mutation does nothing on your henchmen as well.  So it's better on Corruptors, Controllers, and Defenders, but it's still perfectly playable on a Mastermind.

[Zect]

The reason cold is considered better is that it produces much more -res, and -res is the king of debuffs because it multiplies damage dealt.

 

Cold stacks 2x sleet and heatloss (which also gives -res). Not even TA produces this amount of -res, using disruption arrow again only relocates the beacon.

 

-Regen is in general much less important than -res given the dps of modern toons. Benumb is permanent on high end colds, hence the lower recharge of lingering rad is not significant.

 

Cold does not have -tohit, while Rad has the full set of standard debuffs. Cold gets +def shields instead, which are superior (not affected by purple patch or AV resists) at the cost of not protecting the cold themself.

 

When comparing debuff sets, there are two axis to consider: 1) the spread of debuffs and 2) the amount of -res, the most important debuff, they can stack. Some sets do better on 1), others on 2), some are good at both. Rad is high on 1) (full set of standard debuffs, -dmg -tohit -rech -regen -res -def) and only midrange on 2) (neither 2 -res powers to stack nor doublestackable -res power, so only -30%). Cold is high on 1) (misses only -tohit) and best in class on 2). (-60%, another -30% 1/3 of the time)

 

Edit: I need to clarify that this is in the context of debuffing AV's and other tough foes in team contexts, such as 4* hard mode etc. This is not to mean that cold is necessarily overall a superior set to rad. If you are soloing, cold shields do nothing for you, while rad's +rech does.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Zect

[Glacier Peak]

Cold Domination is the best among the two because I'm subjective. 

 

Cold Domination has a lot of versatility in slotting opportunities. This allows for high tier solo, team- oriented builds, or a combination of the two that's tailored to specific content. 

 

Benumb is the second best -Regeneration power in the game after the Traps power. Sleet and Heat Loss added make even AVs soloable.

[Scarlet Shocker]

wow ok some excellent stuff here. Thanks. I have a Demons/Cold MM on Reunion, which I always enjoyed but never felt like it was the AV killre and I've had a fun Earth/Rad troller - but he wasn't a patch on my Earth/Thermal which surprised me. I'm quite a fan of Melt Armor and the buffs of thermal are good for teamage.

 

I have a particular project in mind and this

4 hours ago, Zect said:

Cold does not have -tohit, while Rad has the full set of standard debuffs. Cold gets +def shields instead, which are superior (not affected by purple patch or AV resists) at the cost of not protecting the cold themself.

caught my eye

 

 

[nihilii]

8 hours ago, Astralock said:

Radiation Emission only offers -30% resistance on Defenders, -22.5% resistance on Controllers/Corruptors/Masterminds.  On the other hand, Cold Domination offers -60% resistance on Defenders, and -54% resistance on Controllers/Corruptors/Masterminds.  (Yeah, Sleet and Heat Loss are kind of OP on Controllers/Corruptors/Masterminds.)  This is the big one.

This can even be compounded for dedicated highend builds by going into the Speed pool to take Burnout, which lets you double up on the Cold -RES but does nothing for Rad.

As the gameplay loop looks like "run a lot, then obliterate a tough target, then run a lot, then obliterate a tough target"... The ability to spike -RES to 120% per character is more valuable than its temporary nature would suggest.

[MoonSheep]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

This can even be compounded for dedicated highend builds by going into the Speed pool to take Burnout, which lets you double up on the Cold -RES but does nothing for Rad.

As the gameplay loop looks like "run a lot, then obliterate a tough target, then run a lot, then obliterate a tough target"... The ability to spike -RES to 120% per character is more valuable than its temporary nature would suggest.

 

hadn’t considered dropping sleet and heatloss and then repeating with burnout, does it definitely stack?

 

[Astralock]

4 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

hadn’t considered dropping sleet and heatloss and then repeating with burnout, does it definitely stack?

 

 

Yep, it stacks.

[Astralock]

4 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

wow ok some excellent stuff here. Thanks. I have a Demons/Cold MM on Reunion, which I always enjoyed but never felt like it was the AV killre and I've had a fun Earth/Rad troller - but he wasn't a patch on my Earth/Thermal which surprised me. I'm quite a fan of Melt Armor and the buffs of thermal are good for teamage.

 

I have a particular project in mind and this

caught my eye

 

 

 

Demons/Cold Mastermind is one of the best AV/GM killers in the game, between the -res from Demons, and how OP Cold Domination is on Masterminds.  (I know some will argue with me on that, but yes, Cold Domination is OP on Masterminds and should be nerfed.  And no, Cold Domination should not be buffed on Defenders.  I've seen that suggestion before, and it's laughable.)

[MoonSheep]

4 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Yep, it stacks.

 

has science gone too far?

 

this makes it tempting to run a cold/sonic for times where my kin/sonic is met by another kin on speed runs

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

This can even be compounded for dedicated highend builds by going into the Speed pool to take Burnout, which lets you double up on the Cold -RES but does nothing for Rad.

As the gameplay loop looks like "run a lot, then obliterate a tough target, then run a lot, then obliterate a tough target"... The ability to spike -RES to 120% per character is more valuable than its temporary nature would suggest.

 

I've never used Burnout nor indeed paid much attention to it. But this is interesting.

 

I play mostly on Excelsior these days, so I'm thinking I don't want to do a server transfer nor do I want to create another Demon/Cold

 

But what about a Dark/Cold troller? I've experienced Dark Control on live and like it a lot - it's potent and it strikes me that the cold shields will work well on pets. The Dark gives the -to Hit and the Cold is the =Res

 

It could be interesting.

[Uun]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but the king of -res and -dmg is Poison. While not favored for hard-mode TFs due to its small AoEs (I use my Cold defender for those), it is very effective against single hard targets. On defenders it provides 65% -res and 56.25% -dmg (48.75%/45% on controllers). It doesn't offer the same level of -regen that Cold or Rad offer (but its -regen stacks). My Illusion/Poison controller is my goto for soloing AVs.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I am a big fan of poison but I rarely ever try and solo AVs - I have a Beast/Poison and a Poison/Water def and also a poison/dark which I mentioned above. All very potent but the defender is squishy

[Scarlet Shocker]

So getting back on track I've been cogitating about my next project. I'm leaning heavily to a Dark/Cold troller but I'm open to other options too. Probably not a Def or Crupper - I've been playing a few of those and I have squissues with their durability.

 

Maybe an MM but as stated eaarlier I already have a Demons/Cold that I don't want to recreate.

 

What're your best suggestions, but most importantly why?