Hamidon quick defeats

[CapnFreedom]

I attend Veracor's Everlasting Hamidon raids often. Since the Symphony powerset dropped, we've noticed peculiar Hamidon behavior. Notably, he dies super fast with no real apparent reason (i.e. not a "Hamikaze"). He can drop very rapidly from almost 80% health to nothing, nearly instantly. Other times, he is defeated 'normally'. The event occurs uncommonly, but often enough that it warranted investigating.

I've been testing it over a week now, rotating out powers on my Symphony/Savage Dominator (with Degenerative Core Flawless Interface slotted), and the effect seems to occur more frequently if I include the Confuse/Impassioned Serenade or the AOE Sleep/Enfeebling Lullaby in my attack chain on Hamidon. I am unsure if the effect on Hamidon is being triggered because of my own casting, or some strange mechanic being applied through the Reverbrant since the pet chooses which of my attacks to cast itself.

Veracor had noted that in inordinate amount of Degenerative debuffs were being applied to Hami (more than 4), making his defeat so simple. 

Just wanted to toss that out for a possible Dev fix.

Thanks for all you do..

[CapnFreedom]

Been testing it for over a week again. In raids where there was one or two more Symphony characters, Hamidon dropped like a sack of potatoes (i.e. less than 10 seconds from when last green mito, first re-bloom wave cleared... attacking Hamidon straight through its second and third mito re-bloom). It is getting way too many stacks of Degenerative lowering its max HPs, more so that the stacking limit Degenerative should be allowed to apply. I am still unsure if it is a property of the Reverbrant's echo-copy powers or Symphony's confuse or sleep powers (or those powers in turn being used by the Reverbrant).

 

Hope it helps.

[SeraphimKensai]

I don't think it's a bug necessarily, but I haven't ran a power analyzer on Hami in a few months. If the baby allows me tonight, I'll bring a power analyzer and my Symphony Domi and see if I can collaborate what you're perceiving.

[CapnFreedom]

~2% max HP debuff per stack is what I am noticing in Power Analyzer, when used versus a Giant Monster in PI (67716.4 max HP, 1330 HP debuff per stack, max of 4 stacks seeming to apply).

 

Hamidon's HPs are 47120 (according to the wiki). If the ~2% debuff is still correct versus a Hamidon-entity, then that would place a single stack at ~940 max HP debuff. Even with 4 stacks, that would be ~3770 max HP debuff. I have witnessed its max HP be ~37000 (37220 I think was the amount). Theoretically Hami should not be able to be debuffed to the observed ~37K. And I have heard accounts from our Raid Leader Veracor that he's noticed Hamidon have even lower max HPs (27K, and even lower but I don't recall exact figures).

 

If my numbers are incorrect (like Hami's max HPs) I'll edit this.

[SeraphimKensai]

6 minutes ago, CapnFreedom said:

~2% max HP debuff per stack is what I am noticing in Power Analyzer, when used versus a Giant Monster in PI (67716.4 max HP, 1330 HP debuff per stack, max of 4 stacks seeming to apply).

 

Hamidon's HPs are 47120 (according to the wiki). If the ~2% debuff is still correct versus a Hamidon-entity, then that would place a single stack at ~940 max HP debuff. Even with 4 stacks, that would be ~3770 max HP debuff. I have witnessed its max HP be ~37000 (37220 I think was the amount). Theoretically Hami should not be able to be debuffed to the observed ~37K. And I have heard accounts from our Raid Leader Veracor that he's noticed Hamidon have even lower max HPs (27K, and even lower but I don't recall exact figures).

 

If my numbers are incorrect (like Hami's max HPs) I'll edit this.

Pretty sure degen any any other interface caps at 5 applications. That said I'll do my best to make it tonight and hit you up in guild chat. We can do the first kill with Reverberant and the second kill without or something to see if there's a noticable difference.

 

[CapnFreedom]

OK. We can see if there are any other Symphony's at the raid too, and ask (or have V ask) that we're testing and to not/do deploy Reverbrants.

And 4 is the max I've ever seen for the Degen debuff. I can't find documentation to prove it, right now though. My Google Fu is weak.

Edited March 20, 2023 by CapnFreedom

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Pretty sure degen any any other interface caps at 5 applications.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.interface_silent.maxhp_debuff&at=dominator

 

4.

 

Yes, I checked, they're all 4.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=incarnate.interface

[lemming]

I'll move my symphony char over

[SeraphimKensai]

Screenshots incoming from @CapnFreedom, but yeah Symphony Control with Reverbrants and Degenerative Interface got Hami down to like 17,732 max hp. Good find.

Edited March 20, 2023 by SeraphimKensai

[CapnFreedom]

With our Green mito team and RL's permission, we had 4 Symphony characters. First run on Hami I was the only one who had a Reverberant cast (on accident, but it still provided good data). The attached picture just showed random attacks against Hami. The debuff numbers seem weird too, but that is another story.

 

[CapnFreedom]

The second image is at the end of first round versus Hamidon. I had the only Reverberant out and was too busy that I was only casting my ST hold.

 

As you can see, Hami's max HPs were being debuffed from the Reverberant by almost 33K! It also looks like more than 4 stacks of Degenerative are being applied from other sources too.

[CapnFreedom]

End of Hami round 2. The 4 Symphony characters all had our Reverebrants out, and all only casting our ST holds. I am unsure if the pet was remembering any other previous attacks, or how long it's memory is. Similar results against Hamidon as with only 1 Reverberant from Round 1.

 

I can only speak for myself and my SGmate, that we were only casting our ST holds. But unless music is taming the savage (Hamidon)-beast as a powerset feature... looks buggy to me.

 

I hope this information helps.

[Veracor]

I can confirm Reverberant is acting funky and applying far too many Interface stacks, with multiple Reverberants sometimes able to instantly defeat Hamidon from full life if their owners have Degenerative Interface.  This has been happening sporadically since Page 4 dropped (When Symphony was introduced) but it's only been since last month that we've pinpointed it to Reverberant for further testing.  Everything involving Symphony Control looks normal in City of Data to me so I don't have any speculation on the technical reason for the bug.

 

However I did notice that Hamidon's class (Boss Hamidon) doesn't appear to have any resistance to -maxHP effects like iTrial and hard mode AVs do (Boss Praetorianarchvillain) which may explain why we've only noticed it in Hamidon raids and not elsewhere, but this by itself wouldn't be responsible for Hamidon dying so quickly.

 

If anyone doubts the screenshots, here is an old unlisted video of it happening back in September, long before we had figured any cause for it.  In this video I was mousing over Hamidon's health bar to monitor his hit points and you can see Hamidon dying instantly from his maximum HP being reduced from 40k to 0 in just a few frames:

 

 

@CapnFreedom Nice job with the findings and details!

 

[lemming]

Not sure if related, but I looked at my logs, and noted this little line  (Symphony/Electrical Affinity Controller)

 

"Reverberant:  You knock Mending Mitochondria off their feet with your Amp Up!"

 

 

[Wavicle]

Well...at least you found a use for the Reverberant...

[SeraphimKensai]

I suppose one way to really isolate out Reverberant to see if it's the root cause, would be to have an All Symphony Themed Hami Raids where the league loads up degenerative and hamikazes and see how fast Hamidon evaporates.

 

Doing something like that would help rule out interactions with other powersets, which could be a useful means of getting to the bottom of this.

[CapnFreedom]

Might not even need that many Symphony's. Seriously. If the Degenerative stacks apply 'just right' he'll go 'poof' like in Veracor's video. There's been plenty of secondaries used - I've used four (Controller/Cold Dom, Dominator/Savage Melee, Controller/Time, Controller/Poison). Electrical affinity from @lemming. My gut is saying the easier datamine is the Reverberant.

 

What got me was the ST hold use. Doing green mito duty, that power is spammed by the controller/dominator. So, it would be on the Reverberant's 'playslist'. Is there a listing somewhere publicly of what the actual powers' effects the Reverberant casts?

Edited March 21, 2023 by CapnFreedom

[SeraphimKensai]

1 hour ago, CapnFreedom said:

Is there a listing somewhere publicly of what the actual powers' effects the Reverberant casts?

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=dominator_control.symphony_control&at=dominator

 

Reverberant is a little odd in that the attack powers it inherits are linked to the actual player's powers, so if you click on say Hymn of Dissonance, you'll see a link the the Reverberant's version of the power: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.reverberant.hymn_of_dissonance&at=dominator

 

The powers the Reverberant get are essentially temporary powers that have a limited inventory and a 10 second life cycle that can be extended up to 20 seconds with stacked casts of the player's Hymn of Dissonance, or other power they pass to the Reverberant.

 

Looks like the Reverberant's enhancements are all coming from the actual Reverberant power. I tried to look if it was inheriting any enhancements from the player powers and then being boosted by the Reverberant itself, but looks like the enhancement value all comes directly from the pet.

Edited March 21, 2023 by SeraphimKensai

[Astralock]

The core issue isn’t Reverberant.  You can see it in the screenshots.  You can see that Degenerative Interface is just plain stacking way beyond 4x from many sources.  Reverberant is just exasperating it, but isn’t the main culprit.

 

@Booper, looks like Degenerative Interface is still very broken.

[CapnFreedom]

1 hour ago, Astralock said:

The core issue isn’t Reverberant.  You can see it in the screenshots.  You can see that Degenerative Interface is just plain stacking way beyond 4x from many sources.  Reverberant is just exasperating it, but isn’t the main culprit.

 

@Booper, looks like Degenerative Interface is still very broken.

Certainly, Degen is borked. I'm still curious how a single Reverberant did 33K in HP debuffs lol, whereas 4 did not. 🤪

[Veracor]

All of the Interfaces are stacking like this and have been for many months, it's just apparent on Hamidon because he doesn't resist Degenerative at all and the Reactive stacking is overshadowed by actual Resistance debuffs from players and BP Lore pets.  I think Interface going beyond four stacks may be a side effect from the proc-reliance fix it had a while ago, and I'd even argue that it's a happy side effect because it helps pet powersets contribute more in level 50 content.  But a bug is a bug, and Interface has a long history of not working right.

 

So it looks like we have three issues working in tandem to delete the poor blob from the game:

1. Hamidon's entity class is not resisting Maximum HP debuffs.
2. Interface abilities are stacking more than 4 times from different sources.
3. Reverberant is applying 33+ stacks of Degenerative Interface in one go for some reason.

Nice.

[Arc-Mage]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:16 PM, Veracor said:

 

 

@CapnFreedom Nice job with the findings and details!

 

This is nothing to do with nothing. 
 

I just wanted to say it’s nice to see someone else with a sensible HUD set up.