Happy Pi day

[SteelRat70]

15 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

You joke, but it is disassociations like this that are ruinous for me.  

 

Is the lid the part of the pie that was browned, or is it the part that is made of dough, or is it the top few layers of whatever molecules are on top?

OK, seriously.. a tart (which generally, but not always tends to be sweet rather than savoury) is "open".. in other words the pastry sits on the bottom and sides and outlines whatever container it's cooked in, and what ever filling you put in is still visible after it's cooked.  If you roll out another piece to cover that before you cook it, it (at its simplest level) turns a tart in to a pie.

Example:

This is an apple tart:

 

This is an apple pie:

 

To take things a step further, the lid on a pie doesn't always necessarily have to be made of the same material that the base is made out of.  For example:


This is a lemon meringue pie.  The lid in this instance is the meringue.  Similarly:


this is a fish pie.  Fish filling, lid is made of mashed potato.

and this is a Shepherds Pie.  Minced lamb, mixed vegetable filling again with a mashed potato lid.



This is a chocolate pie - in this case the lid is the layer of cream on the top:



with all that in mind, how can anyone with any degree of justification call this a Pumpkin pie?



Nope.  That is a pumpkin tart.

 

For reference, these are jam tarts:



and this is a Gypsy tart:



notice the common denominator?

Edited March 20, 2023 by SteelRat70

[Major_Decoy]

33 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

Whether you accept my definition or not is a you problem, not a me problem.

Awesome, I get to ignore you from now on.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Major_Decoy
Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be denied without evidence.

[Snarky]

17 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

You joke, but it is disassociations like this that are ruinous for me.  

 

Is the lid the part of the pie that was browned, or is it the part that is made of dough, or is it the top few layers of whatever molecules are on top?

not sure but you just made me hungry.  

[SteelRat70]

10 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Awesome, I get to ignore you from now on.

Thank you.  That position will be mutually beneficial, I'm sure.

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:27 AM, Techwright said:

Is this turning into a west-side-of-The-Pond vs. east-side-of-The-Pond thing?  Because I refuse to discuss chips, crisps, and fries while a population cannot even figure out what a "pudding" is.

 

[Techwright]

On 3/20/2023 at 5:52 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

 

You had me at Miles Davis! Classic and classy jazz kind of guy here.

[Snarky]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:14 PM, SteelRat70 said:

OK, seriously.. a tart (which generally, but not always tends to be sweet rather than savoury) is "open".. in other words the pastry sits on the bottom and sides and outlines whatever container it's cooked in, and what ever filling you put in is still visible after it's cooked.  If you roll out another piece to cover that before you cook it, it (at its simplest level) turns a tart in to a pie.

Example:

This is an apple tart:

 

This is an apple pie:

 

To take things a step further, the lid on a pie doesn't always necessarily have to be made of the same material that the base is made out of.  For example:


This is a lemon meringue pie.  The lid in this instance is the meringue.  Similarly:


this is a fish pie.  Fish filling, lid is made of mashed potato.

and this is a Shepherds Pie.  Minced lamb, mixed vegetable filling again with a mashed potato lid.



This is a chocolate pie - in this case the lid is the layer of cream on the top:



with all that in mind, how can anyone with any degree of justification call this a Pumpkin pie?



Nope.  That is a pumpkin tart.

 

For reference, these are jam tarts:



and this is a Gypsy tart:



notice the common denominator?

All those examples and talk and you just roared past pumpkin pie with a toss off rename

 

you sir have invalidated everything you stated with that one remark.  It is, without doubt,a Pumpkin Pie.  

Would you care to try the bonus round, where the numbers can really change?

[Major_Decoy]

34 minutes ago, Snarky said:

All those examples and talk and you just roared past pumpkin pie with a toss off rename

 

you sir have invalidated everything you stated with that one remark.  It is, without doubt,a Pumpkin Pie.  

Would you care to try the bonus round, where the numbers can really change?

They've already stated that they are acting without intellectual honesty and ignoring any definition of pie that does not match their own.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Major_Decoy

[SteelRat70]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

All those examples and talk and you just roared past pumpkin pie with a toss off rename

 

you sir have invalidated everything you stated with that one remark.  It is, without doubt,a Pumpkin Pie.  

Would you care to try the bonus round, where the numbers can really change?

How?

All the examples I gave fell in to the criteria that I outlined.  Except that one, which proved my point.  You might call it a pumpkin pie, but it isn't a pie because it doesn't have a lid, like all the other real pies do.  Just because you prefer to call it a pie for, reasons like.. I dunno.. alliteration doesn't mean it is one..  All of the things that are tarts share the same characteristics as the thing you're calling a pie.

It's really not that hard to understand if you remove your own biases.

Edited March 22, 2023 by SteelRat70

[SteelRat70]

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

They've already stated that they are acting without intellectual honesty and ignoring any definition of pie that does not match their own.

Hypocrisy at its finest.  No surprise there then.

Do you need to google that to make sure it's the definition you're happy with?

[SteelRat70]

OK.. so I have looked up on a couple of pastry websites to see what the difference between a pie and a tart actually is, and, rather embarrassingly it is possible to have a lidless pie which very definitely invalidates my definition of it.  So I'll take the L and the inevitable ridicule for that one.

but.. (and it's a big Kim K sized but)

There is a difference between pies and tarts to the extent that they are very definitely fundamentally different things and not subsets of one another.  The reason for that is down to what the base is made out of:



Alternative take, but the same message:



Bring on the "I told you so's" and what ever other derisive comments you feel are appropriate.
 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Ergo, I am a pie because I ride a motorcycle!

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

How?

All the examples I gave fell in to the criteria that I outlined.  Except that one, which proved my point.  You might call it a pumpkin pie, but it isn't a pie because it doesn't have a lid, like all the other real pies do.  Just because you prefer to call it a pie for, reasons like.. I dunno.. alliteration doesn't mean it is one..  All of the things that are tarts share the same characteristics as the thing you're calling a pie.

It's really not that hard to understand if you remove your own biases.

You're fun.  I really hope this is a tongue in cheek response.

 

But, just to be Snarky.  (TM, pat.pend.) 

An exception does not prove a point. Mathematically and scientifically a non conforming data point provides extra information. The main bit of information is that your statement and/or hypotheses is false.

You are absolutely correct.  What I call it does not matter.  However....when everyone who makes it calls it a Pumpkin Pie you have a bigger problem.

How am I biased?  Because I use the correct term for a baked good....that everyone uses...?

[Scarlet Shocker]

But...

 

What about when the moon hits your eye like a big something or other?

[Luminara]

8 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

But...

 

What about when the moon hits your eye like a big something or other?

[SteelRat70]

16 minutes ago, Snarky said:

An exception does not prove a point

So you acknowledge it is an exception.
 

 

16 minutes ago, Snarky said:

How am I biased?  Because I use the correct term for a baked good....that everyone uses...?

You've answered your own question.  You're biased because that's what everyone calls it, whether it's an accurate description of what it actually is or not (and as I've already acknowledged, it actually is an accurate description because the criteria that defines it are different to what I thought they were and, for the record, what everyone else thought they were too.)

[SteelRat70]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

That's not a pie either.  It's a biscuit.

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

OI Luminara, put your pants back on and stand up straight!

[Snarky]

11 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

So you acknowledge it is an exception.

you are seriously missing the meta,,, i was discussing data and conclusions   

 

is pumpkin pie an exception?  or part of a broader group of un lidded pies?

 

i do not know.  i do not care.

[Luminara]

Just now, SteelRat70 said:

That's not a pie either.  It's a biscuit.

 

 

Just now, Scarlet Shocker said:

OI Luminara, put your pants back on and stand up straight!

 

British.  English.  I'm supposed to take nomenclature advice from people who can't give themselves a definitive name?

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

British.  English.  I'm supposed to take nomenclature advice from people who can't give themselves a definitive name?

 

 

Hahah It is perfectly acceptable to be British and English at the same time - in the same way it's ok to be Texan and American. Very few people have just one single tribal identity

[SteelRat70]

21 minutes ago, Snarky said:

you are seriously missing the meta,,, i was discussing data and conclusions   

 

is pumpkin pie an exception?  or part of a broader group of un lidded pies?

 

i do not know.  i do not care.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't have asked.

So, BS.

And, again, it's clear that it is, in fact, an unlidded pie, not a tart as I previously attested.  It's interesting how you're continuing to skip over that.  Honestly, I'd have thought it was prime fodder to bash me with.  Is that fruit too low hanging for you?

[SteelRat70]

17 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

British.  English.  I'm supposed to take nomenclature advice from people who can't give themselves a definitive name?

It's possible to be both.

England is a country.  Britain is a collection of countries which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland.  It is possible to be British and English, as well as British and Scottish, but not possible to be Welsh and Irish (mixed parentage aside, of course).

[Luminara]

13 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Hahah It is perfectly acceptable to be British and English at the same time - in the same way it's ok to be Texan and American. Very few people have just one single tribal identity

 

Just now, SteelRat70 said:

It's possible to be both.

England is a country.  Britain is a collection of countries which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland.  It is possible to be British and English, as well as British and Scottish, but not possible to be Welsh and Irish (mixed parentage aside, of course).

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ish

 

Way to miss the joke, you two.  I've never seen anything go over anyone's head and achieve orbit that fast before.  You should apply to the ESA.

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ish

 

Way to miss the joke, you two.  I've never seen anything go over anyone's head and achieve orbit that fast before.  You should apply to the ESA.

 

 

No, no we got it

https://ish.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en.html

 

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