Yin or Yang?

[luxlorica]

 

 

My goal is to play a human form...something, mostly solo.

 

Yes there will be teams, yes there will be all the things, MSR, ITF, DNTZ, UPDG, all the things, but I will not have a regular group or a pit of time I can invest in so a lot of the time it will be > log in > police scanner > mission > mission > mission > out.

 

So whats good here?

 

I made a PB and it seems alright enough. Some pew pew, some punch punch, not very sturdy, ehh

 

Is Warshade different? Is it better for solo play?

 

I note that PB gets wastefully maxed with Lightform resistance-wise, but defenses become the hard to find goal. I already know that recharge is king for that perma light form and several other goodies that can be permed.

 

Is Warshade human form pretty much the same?

 

But Tri-form…: Thanks but no

 

Bi form can give you…: Nope, sorry but no.

 

You are just gimping yourself: Look I hate the squids and the beetles. I LOVE the look of the human form. PB seems as good as my normal experiments in mids so far. A little squishy. Kind of a run-away king at the moment at… what am I… ummm, 16.

 

But I know some of you are great benefactors of Warshades, so tell me are they great or about the same?

 

[Black_Assassin]

Why don't you just take two human only builds from one of the posts on the forums and export them via mids into the beta server? Then you can test them and see which playstyle you prefer. 

whilst both PB and WS are able to be played human only (gimped as you rightly said), their playstyles are quite different. 

 

Hard to give a definitive play X vs Y when they achieve different goals in different ways. 

[SeraphimKensai]

I second the suggestion to check them out on the beta server.

 

That said, the human form abilities of Peacebringers and Warshades differs greatly.

 

Peacebringers combine some ranged blasts, melee strikes, hp boost/self heal and heal other, a buildup and a nuke. They work fairly self sufficient.

 

Warshades on the other hand are a meat grinder. They have more controll esque abilities, blasts, and need for density of mobs.

 

Both ATs benefit from building for Recharge to Perma light form or eclipse.

 

I've played multiple Peacebringers and Warshades as human only, biform, triform, you name it. Kheldians are my favorite concept design in the game, although if you you I've argued for some AT improvements (thanks devs for suppression btw, now we just need mez protection in human and an increased damage cap). I personally like Warshades better than Peacebringers because they are more complicated both from a story perspective and playstyle perspective.

 

Best of luck building your character.

[UltraAlt]

18 hours ago, luxlorica said:

made a PB and it seems alright enough. Some pew pew, some punch punch, not very sturdy, ehh

 

Well,

The Dwarf is the more tankery form.

The Squid is the glass-cannon form.

 

I have only one Kheldian at this point and they are a Peacebringer.

They try to stay mostly in Human form, so they run combat jumping (for the defense), fighting pool (kick - for a chance to knock opponents down, weave - extra defense) and leadership (primarily for maneuvers and tactics)

I switch to squid for if on a team and more damage is needed or for the quick end recharge of a squid rather than using rest.

 

18 hours ago, luxlorica said:

I will not have a regular group or a pit of time I can invest in so a lot of the time it will be > log in > police scanner > mission > mission > mission > out.

 

I can't say for end-game, but the above seems to work well once you are able to get the shielding against the voids and what not.

 

18 hours ago, luxlorica said:

Is Warshade human form pretty much the same?

 

I haven't made one since before the sunset, but my somewhat addled memory is telling me that it isn't all that much different playstyle-wise.

I guess the main difference is the https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Umbral_Blast#Starless_Step but, honestly, (from running with someone else with a warshade) the to-hit bonus for teleporting doesn't seem to be as good as https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Teleportation#Combat_Teleport

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by UltraAlt

[warlyx]

i dislike squid as much as any1 a QOL of change for Kheldians would be to able to remove "forms" and stay on human even if its just a FX option . But i guess not possible (or devs doesnt want to)

 

Quote

it will be > log in > police scanner > mission > mission > mission > out.

 

there other AT's that would do that waaaaaaaay better , human only PB is kinda like a Sentinel Energy / X , Blaster / Corr , hell even defender X / energy 

 

but if u want to play kheldians for any reason other than animations , yeah that would be perfectly fine too , COH is a game that anything works 😄

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by warlyx

[UltraAlt]

@warlyx you are quoting me as saying something that I did not say.

[warlyx]

34 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

@warlyx you are quoting me as saying something that I did not say.

yeah dunnow what happened lol

[Laucianna]

I would love to see your build for your human only PB as I know they can get very tanky (Talking 35% in positional defences, capped res (With Psi at 50%)). But I would agree on what others have said here, try looking at some of the builds posted and try them out (Doom has great ones for both PB and WS) ❤️ Both are similar ATs, but are played differently, with PeaceBringers being self sufficient and WarShades using their enemies as steroids.

 

 - Lauci x

[luxlorica]

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That is my first swing at it.

As an update - I have created a warshade (human form as well) as well and pushed it up to about 12.

Wow, it is so much better than the PB at this point.

The PB is this porcelain doll that can make some pretty light before it falls apart under -1/1. The warshade is pretty sturdy and mobile, able to get into and out of dicey situations,  Tough enough to take on -1/3 or -1/4 mission solo with a very limited kit and still do well. Orbiting death makes for a useful AoE sandpapering the mobs down a little  before you turn and stare at then intensely.

At this point the PB has no way to deal with groups, or mobs that hit from range, or in melee. I mean "gimped" doesn't really cover how bad the PB human form is. Getting carried to a higher level and a more robust kit is really the only option, I think.

Warshade can throw some hands though.

I am a bit wrapped up in what powers I can skip on the Warshade lines. I wonder if skipping Sunless Mire is a bad idea.

I dunno, I'm just working all this out as I go.

Anyone might rightly point out the low level play is not the same as mid or high level play. But to get to it, you gotta go through it.

[Laucianna]

12 hours ago, luxlorica said:

 

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That is my first swing at it.

As an update - I have created a warshade (human form as well) as well and pushed it up to about 12.

Wow, it is so much better than the PB at this point.

The PB is this porcelain doll that can make some pretty light before it falls apart under -1/1. The warshade is pretty sturdy and mobile, able to get into and out of dicey situations,  Tough enough to take on -1/3 or -1/4 mission solo with a very limited kit and still do well. Orbiting death makes for a useful AoE sandpapering the mobs down a little  before you turn and stare at then intensely.

At this point the PB has no way to deal with groups, or mobs that hit from range, or in melee. I mean "gimped" doesn't really cover how bad the PB human form is. Getting carried to a higher level and a more robust kit is really the only option, I think.

Warshade can throw some hands though.

I am a bit wrapped up in what powers I can skip on the Warshade lines. I wonder if skipping Sunless Mire is a bad idea.

I dunno, I'm just working all this out as I go.

Anyone might rightly point out the low level play is not the same as mid or high level play. But to get to it, you gotta go through it.

 

Having a quick look at your build I see why you think they are over on resists, that is because you slotted out the shields that once you have Lightform are not very useful other then for Psi resist procs or to look good. Again anyone can play a Kheldian how they want but you are 100% wrong with the PB being this fragile little thing, as I know for a fact my Human only PB can solo +4/8 missions with ease, but I think that highly comes down to builds, as any AT with a okay build is not great, but with Kheldians since they are already not the best at any one thing, then the builds become even more important for us to perform well ❤️
 - Lauci x
 

[luxlorica]

9 hours ago, Goddess Laucianna said:

Having a quick look at your build I see why you think they are over on resists, that is because you slotted out the shields that once you have Lightform are not very useful other then for Psi resist procs or to look good. Again anyone can play a Kheldian how they want but you are 100% wrong with the PB being this fragile little thing, as I know for a fact my Human only PB can solo +4/8 missions with ease, but I think that highly comes down to builds, as any AT with a okay build is not great, but with Kheldians since they are already not the best at any one thing, then the builds become even more important for us to perform well ❤️
 - Lauci x
 

I appreciate your input. I think I was mostly talking about leveling one as opposed to playing one.

I too have seen PBs do amazing things and that's why I made one. But leveling them solo is pure pain. Until they get Lightform and can soak whole rooms they get pounded left and right.

And you are right, the shields that are supposed to help you stay alive don't even become useful until you practically have lightform, and then you don't need them. But getting stomped by every villain out there makes a body want to go for anything that makes that doily sturdier.

I see now why someone earlier was saying the class itself was designed poorly.

If I turn around and toss the shields out then I am just laying down for the beatings, and I don't want to do that. But the shields themselves hardly have time to make a difference before they are obsolete. What build makes that better?

Getting carried seems like the only way until lightform and a full build.

So I am not saying that upper level PBs with sets can't be dominant. I'm saying the leveling human form to that point is heart-breaking.

To be fair though, everyone told me it would be, so its not like I didn't know the road was rough.

 

[Laucianna]

1 hour ago, luxlorica said:

I appreciate your input. I think I was mostly talking about leveling one as opposed to playing one.

I too have seen PBs do amazing things and that's why I made one. But leveling them solo is pure pain. Until they get Lightform and can soak whole rooms they get pounded left and right.

And you are right, the shields that are supposed to help you stay alive don't even become useful until you practically have lightform, and then you don't need them. But getting stomped by every villain out there makes a body want to go for anything that makes that doily sturdier.

I see now why someone earlier was saying the class itself was designed poorly.

If I turn around and toss the shields out then I am just laying down for the beatings, and I don't want to do that. But the shields themselves hardly have time to make a difference before they are obsolete. What build makes that better?

Getting carried seems like the only way until lightform and a full build.

So I am not saying that upper level PBs with sets can't be dominant. I'm saying the leveling human form to that point is heart-breaking.

To be fair though, everyone told me it would be, so its not like I didn't know the road was rough.

 

Ah for levelling! Yes no matter what kind of Kheldian you go this will not be as easy as other ATs, human only being even worse. Personally I would always say to level as a tri form so you understand the forms and why you are not taking them, then if you still want to be human only once 50 you can use one of the 3 builds or use a free respec 😄

 

 - Lauci x
 

[Black_Assassin]

Yeah, seconding the human only levelling being worse. That has got to be the gimpiest 1-50 journey out there. Cannot think of anything worse tbh XD

[egoprovince]

On 5/6/2023 at 5:28 AM, Black_Assassin said:

Yeah, seconding the human only levelling being worse. That has got to be the gimpiest 1-50 journey out there. Cannot think of anything worse tbh XD

Solo 1- 50 would be horrible. Playing solo feels so sub-par compared to my Sentinel. But I championed up to 50 on group content where I was surrounded by Cosmic Balance feeders.

 

Without Lightform I can take a lot of punishment, with it I'm nigh unstoppable and have been the last man standing in more than a couple bad pulls.  I prefer more team oriented toons these days but my PB will always have a special place in my heart for being distinctive and engaging.

[biostem]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:09 PM, luxlorica said:

I appreciate your input. I think I was mostly talking about leveling one as opposed to playing one.

The easiest way to level a Kheldian, in my experience, is to embrace using Nova and Dwarf forms to their fullest.  If we assume that you may deviate from that later on, then just stick with generic level 25 IOs - 6-slot the Nova & Dwarf base powers, (3 end mod, 3 tohit & 3 end mod, 3 dmg res, respectively), then add slots to any other power as needed.  Those will act as your foundation, and should allow a pretty smooth journey to 50.  After that, you can experiment with other builds using the other 2 builds you'll have then.