APPs for Kheldians

[ranagrande]

6 minutes ago, Greycat said:

So... again, given APPs are there to fill in gaps in a primary/secondary, as mentioned, and Khelds don't really have those gaps existing... what should be in the APPs?

I agree that kheldians aren't really missing anything and don't need access to APPs.  I'd still like them to get that access because I like having more options.

[Greycat]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It's specifically the fire effect, dark effect, other effect that I have seen asked for on the forums with the requests for non-Kheldian Kheldians.

 

Three things:

(A) Khelds are very tied to their own lore. Again, the "Epic" in Epic AT. Which doesn't cover those. And

(B) that sounds more like 'power customization' than 'APP.'

And (C) - even coming from a RPer who folds and spindles things 10 ways from Friday to be what I "want" them to be...  why should "I want to play this in a way that it isn't" be a reason for this sort of change? When the same concepts can be done utilizing other ATs and more appropriate sets? Pacifists who want to never attack and petless masterminds also kind of fall into that same category, to me - which is not putting them down, I've got kind of a cheat-pacifist (they don't attack, but their minions will *not* see them hurt) myself - but should edge-of-that-envelope play start getting a bunch of buffs and specialty pools *just* for that? Should I want pools for a Scrapafist, a scrapper who doesn't attack or want to do damage? (... which, if you thought playing a petless mastermind was bad... has anyone even tried this? 😄  Throwing it in mostly because the idea came  and I thought it was amusing, not to actually argue it...)

Edited June 8, 2023 by Greycat

[Rudra]

I'm not going to argue to defend Kheldians getting APPs. I'm not actually invested in it, just in favor of it. To answer the question though: Just like a natural, science, mutant, or technology character can learn magic (and still be a natural, science, mutant, or technology character), or any character can pick up a hyper-fusion beam cannon (patent pending) and use it even if a magic origin character (and still be their original origin despite the sci-fi tech weapon), the science-based Kheldians can also learn to pick up other abilities. That would not change the AT lore, just that specific character's late development. I'm not against more options for players. I say let people play what they want as long as they are not taking anything away from the game lore, taking anything away from their fellow players, and isn't yet more power creep.

 

Edit: Also, yes.

" even coming from a RPer who folds and spindles things 10 ways from Friday to be what I "want" them to be...  why should "I want to play this in a way that it isn't" be a reason for this sort of change? When the same concepts can be done utilizing other ATs and more appropriate sets? Pacifists who want to never attack and petless masterminds also kind of fall into that same category, to me - which is not putting them down, I've got kind of a cheat-pacifist (they don't attack, but their minions will *not* see them hurt) myself - but should edge-of-that-envelope play start getting a bunch of buffs and specialty pools *just* for that? Should I want pools for a Scrapafist, a scrapper who doesn't attack or want to do damage? (... which, if you thought playing a petless mastermind was bad... has anyone even tried this? 😄  Throwing it in mostly because the idea came  and I thought it was amusing, not to actually argue it...) "

 

Back on Live I made a pacifist demon Corruptor. (That I brought back on HC.) And I had to find a "new definiton" for "pacifist" because as a friend pointed out since I played solo most times: "That is a great level 1 character." (My definition is that as a demon, pacifism meant not killing or inflicting excessive harm. What excessive harm means is still debatable. I still think its funny to play a demon that apologizes for mopping the map with foes.)

Edited June 8, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Edit: Also, yes.

" even coming from a RPer who folds and spindles things 10 ways from Friday to be what I "want" them to be...  why should "I want to play this in a way that it isn't" be a reason for this sort of change? When the same concepts can be done utilizing other ATs and more appropriate sets? Pacifists who want to never attack and petless masterminds also kind of fall into that same category, to me - which is not putting them down, I've got kind of a cheat-pacifist (they don't attack, but their minions will *not* see them hurt) myself - but should edge-of-that-envelope play start getting a bunch of buffs and specialty pools *just* for that? Should I want pools for a Scrapafist, a scrapper who doesn't attack or want to do damage? (... which, if you thought playing a petless mastermind was bad... has anyone even tried this? 😄  Throwing it in mostly because the idea came  and I thought it was amusing, not to actually argue it...) "

 

Back on Live I made a pacifist demon Corruptor. (That I brought back on HC.) And I had to find a "new definiton" for "pacifist" because as a friend pointed out since I played solo most times: "That is a great level 1 character." (My definition is that as a demon, pacifism meant not killing or inflicting excessive harm. What excessive harm means is still debatable. I still think its funny to play a demon that apologizes for mopping the map with foes.)

I'm not sure if this is just a tangent or trying to be comedic, but this comes across to me like someone saying they can eat chicken and still call themselves a vegan, because they redefined "vegan" to mean "doesn't eat mammals".  Regardless, various concept characters have existed for a long long time, and things like your "Scrapfist" character are only doable at level 1 or if you're eternally carried by other players.  I also need to ask, and I mean this as genuinely as I can, but the notion of a "friendly demon" is not an alien concept, have you delved into Anime or Manga at all?  There truly is nothing new under the sun, nowadays...

Edited June 8, 2023 by biostem

[Greycat]

29 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Back on Live I made a pacifist demon Corruptor. (That I brought back on HC.) And I had to find a "new definiton" for "pacifist" because as a friend pointed out since I played solo most times: "That is a great level 1 character." (My definition is that as a demon, pacifism meant not killing or inflicting excessive harm. What excessive harm means is still debatable. I still think its funny to play a demon that apologizes for mopping the map with foes.)

 

... ooh, who was it... someone here (and on Everlasting) mentioned being up to iteration... 7? 8? of their character, and I know I've seen them at MSRs... i want to say it's Bunni Rabbit. Trying to get to 50 doing *zero* damage. They keep rerolling because damage keeps sneaking in (I think one was because the NPCs they rescued started fighting and they got credit for damage...)

 

I could see doing it (slowly) as a tank, just being a gathering point for enemies for others to AOE, as far as melee. Scrapper - or stalker, which would be more amusing - might be a challenge.

[Rudra]

38 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'm not sure if this is just a tangent or trying to be comedic, but this comes across to me like someone saying they can eat chicken and still call themselves a vegan, because they redefined "vegan" to mean "doesn't eat mammals".  Regardless, various concept characters have existed for a long long time, and things like your "Scrapfist" character are only doable at level 1 or if you're eternally carried by other players.  I also need to ask, and I mean this as genuinely as I can, but the notion of a "friendly demon" is not an alien concept, have you delved into Anime or Manga at all?  There truly is nothing new under the sun, nowadays...

A tangent response to what @Greycat said. And yes, I've seen anime and friendly demons. I've also read stories (that aren't manga, I've never read manga) about friendly, or at least helpful, demons. Doesn't stop me from laughing when my demon stops to ask a foe if they're okay or apologizes for winning. (I've also played Disgaea, so I know it isn't original. [Edit: Demons apologizing for hurting foes, that is.] I still find it funny though.)

 

And yes, I know the character is not a pacifist. That had to change because I didn't want others to carry the character to 50. That was the original basis of the character though. And I can't think of the correct term, so "pacifist until the fighting starts" is what I stick with for the time being.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Rudra

[ranagrande]

You can do a fully pacifist character solo.  It'll just be really boring and take forever.

 

Start off getting a few levels by finding exploration badges.  Then you can start doing radio/newspaper missions.  Only take missions for stealing things, or that otherwise involve clickies.  About a third of those can be done without fighting.  If combat is required, abandon the mission and try another.

 

And make sure to autocomplete a mission on cooldown for the free rewards.

[JasperStone]

9 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

... which goes back to "what do they lack?"

Shields? Check.
Ranged attacks? Check. Double-check if you have Nova.

Melee? Check. Double if you have dwarf.

Control? Yep.

Pets? Yep.

Self-heals? Yep.

Ranged heal? Peacebringer.

Debuffs? Every PB attack does -Def. Warshades? Slow/-rech.

 

Want more DEF or RES? We've already got those in existing non-APP pools.

More attacks? Already exist in pools, both ranged and melee.

Self and party buffs? In pools.

Want certain effects? There's probably something slottable that does it, if Interface doesn't.

 

So... again, given APPs are there to fill in gaps in a primary/secondary, as mentioned, and Khelds don't really have those gaps existing... what should be in the APPs?

I agree with all of this.

Spent almost a year on my PeaceBringer,  a well rounded AT.

 

The only pool I would see fitting and I would want.

Is Energy Mastery for Superior conditioning and Physical Perfection.

 

Not a NEED, but it would be nice

 

[Glacier Peak]

What they really need is for their pet AI to be better at finding the closest target and actually proc'ing if slotted with a proc!