Fire/Fire or Fire/Em

[Gobbledygook]

TL;DR F/F/F or F/EnM/F and why. Also, with the changes to FA, do you still need to slot the knockback IO?

 

Evening everyone. I have decided to roll my first tank up 

I'm pretty set on primary, but undecided on secondary

I went Fire Armor cause at heart I'm a pyro, and like to burn things up

I was thinking Energy Melee, to make it easy to destroy any adversary

Fire Melee seems to be better on hard targets than it used to be

But is it enough to bring it closer to the glory of what Em can be? 

I have experience with EM on a Scrapper, post buff of course, I combined it with Rad

Let's be honest, the AoE of EM is kinda sad

With the Tank buffs to AoE, cones and target cap

It makes me wonder, is the multitarget aspect still crap?

Once long ago, Ihad a FM brute as my main, but FM then and now, are not the same

Does the pure fire damage and ability to slot a couple of -res procs

Help FM's single target damage go from "meh" to "Hey, that rocks"

 

Yeah, I wish I hadn't typed that either. But I did, so now you have to suffer as well.

WOuld love to hear from @Sovera and @Camel in particular.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Gobbledygook
I taunted two other players

[Spaghetti Betty]

While Fire Melee did get substantial buffs, I think Nrg Melee still pulls ahead in ST damage. Fire Melee is the better option if you want a mix of both ST and AoE. That's not to say Nrg's AoE is pure garbage. It certainly feels better than it did before with the Tanker buff, but it's hard to compare to Combustion+FSC. Keep in mind you'll have Burn and the option of epic AoEs, always a welcome addition to a build.

 

Fire Armor got mag 1 KB protection, just enough to protect against minor KD, so I would still recommend slotting extra protection for general gameplay. My Fire/MA Tank has 9 points after the buff (no slotting changes) and seldomly gets knocked around by Rom's shield, Force Bolt, etc.

 

Both combos are great choices!

[Sovera]

Fire/Fire has my vote. EM blooms later and while it has the lead in ST it is nearly TW level of piano play. CoH is not particularly a game of piano play.

 

Fire Armor does compensate for EM's lack of AoE though, and EM's constant barrage of CC helps surviving a little bit better, but CoH is mostly a game of AoE and tankers tend to die a death from papercuts instead of fearing one single tough enemy. In that Fire Melee's AoE will help whittle things down faster.

 

This is what I was using for Fire/Fire. Scorch probably could/should be swapped for Incinerate but I preferred to have Scorch for an easy, simply, early rotation. It is not a min max decision so play around as long as you get a gapless rotation.

 

[/img]
View This Build In MRB

[Gobbledygook]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

Fire/Fire has my vote. EM blooms later and while it has the lead in ST it is nearly TW level of piano play. CoH is not particularly a game of piano play.

 

Fire Armor does compensate for EM's lack of AoE though, and EM's constant barrage of CC helps surviving a little bit better, but CoH is mostly a game of AoE and tankers tend to die a death from papercuts instead of fearing one single tough enemy. In that Fire Melee's AoE will help whittle things down faster.

 

This is what I was using for Fire/Fire. Scorch probably could/should be swapped for Incinerate but I preferred to have Scorch for an easy, simply, early rotation. It is not a min max decision so play around as long as you get a gapless rotation.

 

[/img]
View This Build In MRB

 

Thanks for the feedback. You too, @Spaghetti Betty

I was thinking nearly the same thing as you laid out, I just wanted to double check with some experts.

Now, about that build you so graciously provided...

That's a Sentinel...

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Gobbledygook said:

 

Thanks for the feedback. You too, @Spaghetti Betty

I was thinking nearly the same thing as you laid out, I just wanted to double check with some experts.

Now, about that build you so graciously provided...

That's a Sentinel...

 

My bad, I had two Mids windows open. Lets try that again:

 

Tanker (Fire Fire).mxd

 

[Gobbledygook]

No worries, thanks again.

[Psyonico]

Yes, you'll still need KB protection.  If I recall, Fire Armor gets a meanly 1 KB protection in temperature protection, meaning you will avoid knock down, but will still get thrown around a lot.

 

I've been enjoying my Fire/Fire tank lately, i don't currently have an APP on him, but plan on respeccing into Soul for Darkest Night.

 

As the others have said, go Fire if you want more AOE focus, go Energy for more ST focus.

[Gobbledygook]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:52 AM, Gobbledygook said:

 

Thanks for the feedback. You too, @Spaghetti Betty

I was thinking nearly the same thing as you laid out, I just wanted to double check with some experts.

Now, about that build you so graciously provided...

That's a Sentinel...

 

TL;DR!!!

@Sovera

Thanks for providing both builds.

 

 

I decided to go with the Triple fire tank.

I'll start him tomorrow.

I'm also going to start my new Sentinel.

A triple fire.

Would you mind offering any guidance on building a Triple Fire Sentinel?

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

 

TL;DR!!!

@Sovera

Thanks for providing both builds.

 

 

I decided to go with the Triple fire tank.

I'll start him tomorrow.

I'm also going to start my new Sentinel.

A triple fire.

Would you mind offering any guidance on building a Triple Fire Sentinel?

 

I did do a Fire/Fire sentinel and tbh it kinda felt like it was pretty decent in damage output. As usual it depends on having a taunter in the team or mobs will scatter when Burn is used. Solo this should be less interesting now without the Burn activating procs multiple times and it relying on mobs staying there for the duration.

 

I deleted all my builds though as they were conflicting with Mids' updates and been recreating them when there is a need so if you post something I can offer any possible pointers I spot.

[Camel]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:46 PM, Gobbledygook said:

TL;DR F/F/F or F/EnM/F and why. Also, with the changes to FA, do you still need to slot the knockback IO?

 

Evening everyone. I have decided to roll my first tank up 

I'm pretty set on primary, but undecided on secondary

I went Fire Armor cause at heart I'm a pyro, and like to burn things up

I was thinking Energy Melee, to make it easy to destroy any adversary

Fire Melee seems to be better on hard targets than it used to be

But is it enough to bring it closer to the glory of what Em can be? 

I have experience with EM on a Scrapper, post buff of course, I combined it with Rad

Let's be honest, the AoE of EM is kinda sad

With the Tank buffs to AoE, cones and target cap

It makes me wonder, is the multitarget aspect still crap?

Once long ago, Ihad a FM brute as my main, but FM then and now, are not the same

Does the pure fire damage and ability to slot a couple of -res procs

Help FM's single target damage go from "meh" to "Hey, that rocks"

 

Yeah, I wish I hadn't typed that either. But I did, so now you have to suffer as well.

WOuld love to hear from @Sovera and @Camel in particular.

Love the name, Gobbledygook! I feel like I've teamed with you in-game if you have a character named that. My apologies for the late response, I've been active in-game but haven't been active on the forums until recently. So, speaking on Fire/ and specifically Fire/EM.. I still love it. I've recently experimented with respecs on my Fire/EM Tank and I'm trying to figure out what I'm currently wanting to run. My current in-game spec is dabbling in the new Psi Master with a procced out Dominate and Psionic Tornado. The addition of Psionic Tornado is HUGE in AoE situations, the damage is upfront, the procs have a 90% chance to roll... and it also can slot the Force Feedback +recharge IO, which helps out significantly when running an AoE chain of Burn, Whirling Hands and Psionic Tornado. It can also help the single target EM attacks too if you use them in dense mob situations while also rotating in AoE attacks.

Fire/Fire/Fire would be a classic and I don't think you'd be disappointed at all. I will inevitably make one but still have some insights. Fire Melee, as you know, received buffs across the board. It's not game changing, but it is definitely noticeable and has pushed Fire Melee into top tier territory. I really wish Tanks had gotten the reworked Cremate though.. the ability to slot a Force Feedback +recharge proc in there would have been a game changer for the single target aspect. Still.. the addition of pure fire damage and allowing Defense Debuff sets to be slotted in three of the powers is great! You can go so many routes with this addition, proc bomb Greater Fire Sword, Fire Sword, Fire Sword Circle, etc. You will not be disappointed with the newish Fire Melee. 

Now... this might throw you for a loop.. But I've recently rolled a Battle Axe/Fire Scrapper.. and oh my word. It's so fun! The tech with Axe Cyclone is incredible. Even on a Scrapper which doesn't benefit from the increased target cap or taunt, being able to tightly stack mobs on top of your Burn patch and keep them there is so satisfying. My BA/Fire Scrapper has a complete AoE chain with only the primary and secondary powers and it actually does some really nutty damage for being almost entirely lethal damage between the primary and secondary. The big game changer here is being able to slot those Force Feedback +recharge procs I keep mentioning. They are HUGE.. and specifically in Battle Axe? Practically guaranteed to be up 75% of the time or more.

My Scrapper only has two of them slotted and will frequently get the two of them stacked (which gives you +100% recharge for 10 whole seconds), which is more than enough time to frequently get a third, even a FOURTH stacked before that 10 second duration ends. The Tank build I'm sharing has four of them, so I can only imagine that this would mean it would be almost guaranteed to be buffing your recharge by 100% for the majority of the time you play the game at max level. Battle Axe is definitely not to be slept on. It offers a very good and complete single target chain that can easily slot both the -res procs from Achilles and Fury of the Gladiator respectively... It also offers a complete AoE package to the point that adding an Epic AoE like Fireball or Dark Obliteration might actually hamper your AoE rotation (it wouldn't... not really... but when every single one of your AoEs can proc +100 recharge.. why would you use anything else?) 

Cheers!

I'll share both my proposed Fire/BA Tank and my actual in-game BA/Fire Scrapper below.
**edit; The emply slots you see are for the Force Feedback +recharge procs, I typically keep them out of my build so it doesn't skew my recharge or proc rates in Mids.

Tanker (Fiery Aura - Battle Axe).mbd Scrapper (Battle Axe - Fiery Aura).mbd

Edited Tuesday at 10:48 PM by Camel

[Camel]

I feel like I didn't talk enough about Fire/EM. The trade-off in AoE, as others have stated, is massive single target damage. There is just something so special about being a Tanker and being able to almost, quite literally, two-shot a level 54 boss with only your own buffs. This becomes even more impressive when you get a Kin, Cold, Sonic Blast, etc user on the team to further that. I have seen numbers upwards of 3k damage on my EM Tank with the right team.. and that's insane. I've seen that on my EM Scrappers too.. but we're talking Tanks here. It's really satisfying to see a 5%+ chuck of health just get deleted from a level 54 AV after using only one of your heavy hitters. 

Seeing as you already have an EM/Rad Scrapper (I do too.. and he has 4 AoE attacks which is way more than enough to be doing massive amounts of AoE damage), I would still recommend making a /EM Tank of some kind. Fire/, Rad/, Bio/ and Shield/ are all great pairings and help shore up that lack of AoE. You already have a /Rad Scrapper though and making that same pairing on a Tank would be redundant. But definitely make one at some point. The durability of a Tanker and those huge damage numbers of /EM on Tanks is really something special.. and whatever pairing you potentially end up making will be fun. Just talking about it's got me wanting to make another Energy Melee toon. I've really been holding off on EM/Fire on a Scrapper... the damage numbers would be so insane and will definitely be in my future at some point. 

Cheers! Again! 😄 

Edited Tuesday at 10:48 PM by Camel

[One IV All]

2 hours ago, Camel said:

I feel like I didn't talk enough about Fire/EM. The trade-off in AoE, as others have stated, is massive single target damage. There is just something so special about being a Tanker and being able to almost, quite literally, two-shot a level 54 boss with only your own buffs. This becomes even more impressive when you get a Kin, Cold, Sonic Blast, etc user on the team to further that. I have seen numbers upwards of 3k damage on my EM Tank with the right team.. and that's insane. I've seen that on my EM Scrappers too.. but we're talking Tanks here. It's really satisfying to see a 5%+ chuck of health just get deleted from a level 54 AV after using only one of your heavy hitters. 

Seeing as you already have an EM/Rad Scrapper (I do too.. and he has 4 AoE attacks which is way more than enough to be doing massive amounts of AoE damage), I would still recommend making a /EM Tank of some kind. Fire/, Rad/, Bio/ and Shield/ are all great pairings and help shore up that lack of AoE. You already have a /Rad Scrapper though and making that same pairing on a Tank would be redundant. But definitely make one at some point. The durability of a Tanker and those huge damage numbers of /EM on Tanks is really something special.. and whatever pairing you potentially end up making will be fun. Just talking about it's got me wanting to make another Energy Melee toon. I've really been holding off on EM/Fire on a Scrapper... the damage numbers would be so insane and will definitely be in my future at some point. 

Cheer! Again! 😄 

Been contemplating either Fire/EM or Shield/EM myself. Both seem amazing.