Question for the Devs: DID TIELEKKU LIVE OR DIE?

[WhiteNightingale]

Which choice is the HC team going with as HC's canon? Is Tielekku still around (languishing and weak as she was by Mot's arc), or did "the evil incarnate" kill her with the Dagger of Jocas at the end of Mot's arc and stole her power?

[El D]

She is still around - if the player takes the 'stab both deities' route it states Tielekku 'vanishes back to the spirit world.' Also they use the God-Killer Sword to do that bit, not the Dagger of Jocas.

 

I'm not even sure deities can be killed in CoH, but speculating on that gets into the mix of how Tielekku, Ermeeth, and Hequat work VS how the Banished Pantheon works VS how the Well of the Furies/Pandora's Box stuff works, and that's just a headache. Mostly due to the Well of the Furies/Pandora's Box stuff and the fact that a bunch of the lore for the original gods and the Banished Pantheon never actually comes up in-game.

[American Valor]

TY

[huang3721]

I think Merulina was the only god in CoH universe who ended up dead/destroyed permanently.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, huang3721 said:

I think Merulina was the only god in CoH universe who ended up dead/destroyed permanently.

I've told you all!  Repeatedly!

IT WASN'T MY FAULT!

Some evil fiend dosed me with some SPICY chili and the gas was horrendous!
I destroyed 4 toilets that weekend!

[WhiteNightingale]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:23 AM, El D said:

I'm not even sure deities can be killed in CoH

 

Individual gods can die (see Statesman). What happens is that the incarnate power moves on until finding a new vessel. (see Zeus > Statesman and Merulina > Leviathan).

 

No answer from devs yet. :(

[El D]

1 hour ago, WhiteNightingale said:

 

Individual gods can die (see Statesman). What happens is that the incarnate power moves on until finding a new vessel. (see Zeus > Statesman and Merulina > Leviathan).

 

No answer from devs yet. 😞

 

Statesman isn't a deity, though, and never was. He was Incarnate, yes, and possessed the powers of Zeus, but he was never referred to as god. Beyond that, assuming Zeus was also an incarnate is a hefty pull, given that's never stated anywhere lore-wise. The only Zeus-linked entities that exist currently in canon are Incarnates of Zeus (Statesman and Imperious), Zeus-class Titans (not relevant), and the Avatars of Zeus made by Pandora's Box (though the less said about the story fustercluck that is SSA 2, the better).

 

Also

 

[WhiteNightingale]

26 minutes ago, El D said:

Statesman isn't a deity, though, and never was.

Matt Miller (you know, the game's lead designer) would have a word with you, especially since he explicitly said, in no uncertain terms, that incarnates are the game world's gods (I'm sure the AMAs are there somewhere). And even before Jack Emmert left, this was reinforced in Top Cow's comics, where Prometheus immediately lashes at Statesman because he has a bone to pick with Zeus.

 

For further in-game references, I do commend you to play the game (mainly, the Leviathan story arcs, where they narrate the story of Merulina).

[Greycat]

16 hours ago, WhiteNightingale said:

Matt Miller (you know, the game's lead designer) would have a word with you, especially since he explicitly said, in no uncertain terms, that incarnates are the game world's gods (I'm sure the AMAs are there somewhere). And even before Jack Emmert left, this was reinforced in Top Cow's comics, where Prometheus immediately lashes at Statesman because he has a bone to pick with Zeus.

 

For further in-game references, I do commend you to play the game (mainly, the Leviathan story arcs, where they narrate the story of Merulina).

 

Except... incarnates aren't the "top level" by far. They're borrowing power from the Well - which was, after all, being threatened to be "eaten" (for lack of a better description) by the Batallion. And we were supposed to have more powerful entities to deal with, such as ascended (of which Prometheus is one,) and at *least* one other level was mentioned past that... Incandescents, Fluorescents, and so on.

[huang3721]

20 hours ago, WhiteNightingale said:

Matt Miller (you know, the game's lead designer) would have a word with you, especially since he explicitly said, in no uncertain terms, that incarnates are the game world's gods (I'm sure the AMAs are there somewhere).

 

Sorry for being "that guy" again.
I don't find any statement in the AMA from any dev that equates Incarnates as gods.

 

 

22 hours ago, WhiteNightingale said:

What happens is that the incarnate power moves on until finding a new vessel.

Incarnate power can't move on its own.

The devs liken the power to static electricity rather than a sentient being. When a powerful entity perishes, other entities can gain the power by giving it the path of least resistance toward themselves.

 

I'd say the transfer happened in Merulina's case. The Leviathan was the most compatible vessel compared to other Shapers. Without a vessel to contain it, the power will lay dormant until it dissipates.

 

The AMA:

Lore AMA - Unofficial Homecoming Wiki

[El D]

What @Greycat and @huang3721 said. Also, regarding Prometheus lashing out because he had a bone to pick with Zeus - there's some pretty important context around that exchange, in that Prometheus is falsely conflating Statesman with the actual Zeus. That's the entire reason the Freedom Phalanx even go in the first place, being 'random mortals' to Prometheus who he won't be predisposed to hate. They're there solely to work around the Not-So-Jolly Blue Giant because they know he won't hear Statesman out. There's also the even more relevant context earlier in the same comic where Statesman himself says he isn't Zeus and isn't a deity.

 

 

 

 

Incarnates are certainly god-like, but they aren't literal gods. Not even the main 'My face gets put on the game's box art' ones. Which I'm glad about, honestly. If Statesman had been equivalent to actual, full-on 'block my texts from Hera, I'm turning into a swan' Zeus, that would have made Darrin Wade's arc even more obnoxious than it already is.