Bolero plus Back Detail

[kwsapphire]

There was briefly a bug in the Retail days that allowed the use of the Bolero and a Back Detail at the same time. I'm not sure if this was disabled again because the devs were worried about "ugly clipping" or if there would have had negative effects on the server from said clipping. 

 

My ask is, please can we have this re-enabled as long as it doesn't cause problems for the server?

 

We could make some really cool looking outfits that I'd LOVE to be able to use on Homecoming. 

 

[Rudra]

From the severity of the clipping I see in the example pic? I'm guessing it was disabled because of the clipping, rather than because of any server issues. That is just my guess, not known fact, but I'm fairly willing to bet on it.

 

Edit: Something that may work better for you as a suggestion? May be to ask for a new back option that combined elements of the High Cape (?) and Magic Bolero into a cohesive piece rather than trying to layer them and deal with all the clipping. Like maybe the devs can take the bolero and have an extra version that also included a high collar like that.

 

Edit again: Or maybe something like that high collar could be made as a Shoulder option in the costume creator so it could be applied to more costumes than just that cape and the possible new bolero.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

You can get that one belt with the "butt-cape" AND a cape, so I don't see why we couldn't get some variant of what the OP is suggesting.  That being said, it would be neat to get a version of the bolero, but only the top/off-shoulder portion...

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

You can get that one belt with the "butt-cape" AND a cape, so I don't see why we couldn't get some variant of what the OP is suggesting.  That being said, it would be neat to get a version of the bolero, but only the top/off-shoulder portion...

We already do. At least for female characters. I can't remember what the restrictions are for it to show up in the costume creator, but the bolero's fur wrap is available as a separate piece.

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

We already do. At least for female characters. I can't remember what the restrictions are for it to show up in the costume creator, but the bolero's fur wrap is available as a separate piece.

There's the Wizard Shoulder piece, IIRC, which is slightly different than the bolero one, but it's immaterial, as choosing "bolero" replaces what shoulder options you have, anyway...

 

[Rudra]

26 minutes ago, biostem said:

There's the Wizard Shoulder piece, IIRC, which is slightly different than the bolero one, but it's immaterial, as choosing "bolero" replaces what shoulder options you have, anyway...

 

I was worried that may be the case. However, at least for female characters, the Magic Robe shoulder piece can also be used with the High Collar back detail, which combined with the Sleeves gloves option, almost achieves the look the OP is after. The sleeves aren't as fancy and are much narrower though. (I just checked.) So a new sleeves option in gloves that replicated the bolero's sleeves would be a new costume option that may not be too difficult to add that would give the author the look (s)he is trying for.

 

Edit: Though it would not be able to be used with the Witch Wing(?) gloves used in the example pic.... That would pose an added problem. Unless winged sleeves were also added?

 

Edit again: I am trying to find options that the devs may find acceptable. Given that they have already stated a lack of willingness to push out costume pieces with such excessive clipping, alternate options that may not be too time and resource intensive to make the author's desire possible seems to be a better option to pursue.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Rudra

[kwsapphire]

14 hours ago, Rudra said:

From the severity of the clipping I see in the example pic? I'm guessing it was disabled because of the clipping, rather than because of any server issues. That is just my guess, not known fact, but I'm fairly willing to bet on it. [...] However, at least for female characters, the Magic Robe shoulder piece can also be used with the High Collar back detail, which combined with the Sleeves gloves option, almost achieves the look the OP is after. 

 

I guess I'm just so used to all the "acceptable" clipping (like how pretty much every long hair style clips through capes) that I don't even pay attention to clipping anymore. The whole outfit looks so cool I don't care at all that the scarf passes through the bolero at times. I also don't feel that "avoiding ugly costumes" is a reasonable excuse to disable this option. Ugly is a matter of taste, and the devs aren't in the habit of policing costumes based on how attractive or ugly people think they are. 

 

 

I also personally don't think using any of the Robes with the high collared Cape gets me even close to the look I'm going for, unfortunately. 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, kwsapphire said:

 

I guess I'm just so used to all the "acceptable" clipping (like how pretty much every long hair style clips through capes) that I don't even pay attention to clipping anymore. The whole outfit looks so cool I don't care at all that the scarf passes through the bolero at times. I also don't feel that "avoiding ugly costumes" is a reasonable excuse to disable this option. Ugly is a matter of taste, and the devs aren't in the habit of policing costumes based on how attractive or ugly people think they are. 

 

 

I also personally don't think using any of the Robes with the high collared Cape gets me even close to the look I'm going for, unfortunately. 

I understand your position, but try looking at it from the devs point of view as well. To paraphrase what one of the devs said in a thread where long skirts were requested, while there are players that are fine with any amount of clipping, there are players that are not. And it is the dev who will be associated with the released costume pieces/options, not the players. And from what I have seen, there is a definite stigma applied to devs that give players something that the community views as rushed, incomplete, or otherwise unacceptable to them.

 

As for not getting close to the look you are going for? I understand that as well. In fact, that was part of my comment you quoted. Existing costume options will not make that character design. Get close, yes, but not make that design. However, that is what the Suggestions and Feedback forum is about. If we look at what the devs are willing to give and are not willing to give, we can tackle what you want from a different angle.

 

Option 1: A new alternate bolero that includes the High Collar's mantle and collar. This would give you the ability to make the example character as is without the clipping, which depending on the difficulty of making the new bolero, may be fine with the devs.

 

Option 2: Since the High Collar back piece and the Magic Robe shoulder piece can already be used together to make the bolero-cape itself, the sleeves and gloves is the missing part. So a new sleeves option based on the Magic Bolero would provide that missing element. To maintain the Witch Wing gloves clipping through the sleeves to make witch wing sleeves, we can ask the devs to make Bolero Witch sleeves in the gloves part of the costume creator to preserve that part of the example pic.

 

Option 3: Stick with the OP and ask the devs to allow the bolero and cape to be used together again. However, given the severity of the clipping of those two costume pieces, this option is not likely to ever be implemented as requested.

 

If anyone else has other options, I'm all ears. However, while it will take time and effort by the devs, options 1 and 2 from this list would give you the ability to make that costume in a manner that should not cause any backlash to the devs.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to correct wrong word choice "definitive" with "definite". And again for wrong word choice "should" to "shoulder", and "With" to "Witch"..

[kwsapphire]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Option 2: Since the High Collar back piece and the Magic Robe shoulder piece can already be used together to make the bolero-cape itself,

 

I disagree though. It's *not* just a high collared cape, the bolero shoulder piece,/fur and sleeves. It's a coat, not a cape.  Using the cape doesn't create the part of the bolero that covers the back and ribcage. So no, just adding sleeves that can be used in conjunction with the cape and bolero shoulder detail is insufficient, IMO. Not even worth the trouble. 

 

I will agree that stealing the top piece from the high collar cape and adding it as an option for the full bolero does get most of the way there. No scarf unfortunately, but an acceptable compromise. 🙂

[Rigged]

14 hours ago, Rudra said:

Option 3: Stick with the OP and ask the devs to allow the bolero and cape to be used together again. However, given the severity of the clipping of those two costume pieces, this option is not likely to ever be implemented as requested.

 

If anyone else has other options, I'm all ears. However, while it will take time and effort by the devs, options 1 and 2 from this list would give you the ability to make that costume in a manner that should not cause any backlash to the devs.

 

If the devs are very afraid of clipping, may I request that they consider allowing the bolero to be used with short capes, where the clipping issues are minimal. I would also be very much in favor of any option that allows us to use backpacks with the bolero, since those largely do not clip, as well as the addition of the Arcane collar to backpacks, for those of us who want it without the cape.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

never gonna vote no on more costume options so yes plz.

[kwsapphire]

12 hours ago, Rigged said:

 

If the devs are very afraid of clipping, may I request that they consider allowing the bolero to be used with short capes, where the clipping issues are minimal. I would also be very much in favor of any option that allows us to use backpacks with the bolero, since those largely do not clip, as well as the addition of the Arcane collar to backpacks, for those of us who want it without the cape.

 

I, too, would like to see more back details allowed with the bolero. The cherub and bat wings, for example, don't clip with the bolero at all. Although I know it would require allowing or excluding entire categories, so they couldn't allow some wings without others unless they created a whole new back detail category, which is far more work than I think they'd want to invest in such a project. I'll take what I can get!! 😄

[Coyotedancer]

I'm just going to leave these here since we're talking back details and long coat costume bits... 

 

 

This is what the Witch version bolero coat looks like with wings. On Live, we had a brief window (About a week right after the magic pack was released, IIRC-) when we were allowed to make costumes using both. I was lucky enough to have one of those outfits on Ty, my junior DB Tank.  For the record, the fur collar clipping was a non-issue for the larger wing sets like hers.  

 

 

We were also able to use the wedding tux Tails Coat together with wings for *YEARS*, until that was "stealth nerfed" one day near the end of the Live period, without any warning or commentary from the devs at all.... Which caused some griping and angst on the old forums as at least one poster lost a favorite costume to the unannounced change.

 

There was absolutely no clipping at all involved with that combination.  (I spent quite a bit of time playing both this particular Dual Pistol Blaster, as well as a winged Dual Blade Scrap whose "signature costume" involved that tails coat... I'd have noticed if there was anything funky going on with the combination of their outfits, the wings and a lot of Very Silly Animations. There really wasn't anything odd there at all.)

 

... And yes. I would really love to have both options back again. Whatever minor clipping issues they might have in specific circumstances (With the Tiny Wings, say, or maybe Staff's on-the-floor breakdancing-), would still be less ridiculous than the everyday "twisting cape" problem or the weird transparency issues that no one says a word about.

 

ETA: If anyone wants to see those costumes "in action", I probably have demo files or FRAPs videos somewhere, but I would need to dig them up and figure out how to make them available to view. 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Coyotedancer

[A.I.D.A.]

Yes please. In a game this old, clipping is basically guaranteed. More cosmetic options is always good, even if they clip.

 

Also, obligatory "Ghost Widow hairstyle when?"