Necro now holds crown for max pets out at once?

[Crysis]

Did a TF earlier and during AV battle realized I had 14 pets out PLUS 2-3 Spectres at all times.  

 

6 henchmen

6 Ghosts using Soul Extraction

2 Lore Pets

-------

14 pets

+3 Spectres from primary attacks

 

So 17 technically, although 9 of them not controllable.

 

I suppose depending on my secondary (Storm in my case) I have triple LS and triple Tornado out at once, so those are another +6 pseudo-pets.  /Dark would have fluffy, etc.  

 

But I'm thinking Necro is now about the king of pets out at once?  amirite?

 

[Ringo]

You have 6 ghosts and 3 specters out.  I'm not sure that's more than Gang War summons?  If it is then it's a question of whether Burnout would get you more ghosts versus Burnout giving double Gang War to a Thugs mm

[Ringo]

Looking at City of Data it seems Gang War summons 9 thugs 100% of the time and then has varying percentage chances to summon up to an additional 4 thugs.

 

So Necro is tied with Thugs+bad Rng, 4 behind Thugs+perfect Rng, and left in the dust by Thugs+Burnout

 

Still, not bad for Necro, and I really love the masses of undead from the changes

[Crysis]

Very true....Burnout produces double Gang War, but Burnout doesn't produce double Ghosts.

 

Something tells me though that we are seeing a hint of what's coming for Gang War.....I'm betting it won't let you double up that power after they address Thugs.

 

But even if that comes to pass (you read the dooooom here first folks!) Gang War by itself could spawn 9-12 pets, so you'd have 6 henchmen + up to 12 from Gang War + 2 lore Pets = up to 20 out at once, not counting a secondary pet.  That would still put Thugs as most pets on the field at a single time.  Impressive!

 

Anyone ever play Undead Horde: Necropolis?  COH starting to remind me a little of that.  Or if you are really old school...remember the Overlord franchise?  Those games were my go-to when COH died the first time just to get a feel for herds of pets.  

[C U R S E]

Soul Extraction is on a shorter CD than any other MM summon, including gang War. The ghosts are alot more durable that the paper thin posse. Finally the damage the dead will put out with a clouded senses proc in Soul Extraction will Trump anything including Gang War. The icing of the cake is to add dark servant to the 14 pets and you have a morgue.

Edited December 9, 2023 by C U R S E

[Lhanis]

An additional point in Necros favor would be that gang war thugs... are kinda useless (if we're talking about damage, anyway, they make great distractions). I'm sure the lot of them together amount to some damage output, but iirc they generally only have a melee attack and a throw rock/shoot pistol attack on moderate cooldowns.

 

Even if Necro has slightly less total, Necro gets a heck of a lot more out of them, and more often. Soul Extraction has definitely become a fantastic "I win." button while it's up, and I love it to pieces.

[Norl]

Thugs is fine.  If they plan on forcing me to take primary attacks, screw it.  If I want to pew pew, I'll play every single other AT in this game, or every character in well over 12,000 other games out there!

 

Leave forced (by way of gimp if you don't) pew pew out of MM!

[WumpusRat]

On 3/13/2024 at 7:27 PM, Norl said:

Thugs is fine.  If they plan on forcing me to take primary attacks, screw it.  If I want to pew pew, I'll play every single other AT in this game, or every character in well over 12,000 other games out there!

 

Leave forced (by way of gimp if you don't) pew pew out of MM!

 

I certainly hope the gun attacks don't become "required", though I don't think you're "gimped" in any of the other MM sets if you don't take their attacks.

Mercenaries give a stacking +3% damage per attack you land on a target for the mercs. But simply running Assault gives +11%, more than all three attacks combined.

Necromancy can summon wraiths, which deal (minor) damage and can taunt. Handy, but not absolutely required. I do tend to take them when I'm leveling, but respec out of all but Life Drain at higher levels, just for a wraith and self-heal.

Robotics moved the -regen to the MM's personal attacks instead of the Assault Bot. While this is the closest to "required", it's still not mandatory. You can pick up Envenomed Dagger. Or take a secondary that has -regen powers.

 

Mostly I'm looking forward to what I hope will be a good revision of Beast Mastery. Ever since the upgrade to Robotics, Mercenaries, Necromancy and Ninjas, BM has become the absolute bottom-tier MM primary, and definitely needs a rework.

[TheSpiritFox]

Sorry no My burnout thugs/time regularly runs around with 26 minions. 

[Norl]

MMs shouldn't be gimped if they don't take pew pews.  I always thought it novel to play as the support for your own little personal group.  They attack, you support them.

 

As I mentioned, if I wanted to attack myself, there's 18 other ATs, and 12,000 other games to do that in!

[TheSpiritFox]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:36 PM, Norl said:

MMs shouldn't be gimped if they don't take pew pews.  I always thought it novel to play as the support for your own little personal group.  They attack, you support them.

 

As I mentioned, if I wanted to attack myself, there's 18 other ATs, and 12,000 other games to do that in!

Unfortunately necro is a little and bots are alot alot now if you dont take some personal attacks. Bots in particular, taking pulse rifle burst and photon grenade are no longer optional, at all. Putting the regen debuffs on those makes them not optional, without them youre missing out on one of the big draws of bots - the ability to neuter some hard target regen and thus increase effective DPS on them. 

 

Brings me to another needed MM balance pass. Personal attacks from MM primaries need to have end use cut flatly in half to bring us in line with other ATs, and secondary probably needs end use cut by a flat 25% across the board as well.  The entire point of double end use was that our pets do the attacking, if we're going to be required to be attacking alongside for our sets to get the same benefit, we should be on the same endurance scale as other classes. 

Edited April 19 by TheSpiritFox

[Hyperstrike]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:21 PM, Crysis said:

Very true....Burnout produces double Gang War, but Burnout doesn't produce double Ghosts.

 

Something tells me though that we are seeing a hint of what's coming for Gang War.....I'm betting it won't let you double up that power after they address Thugs.

 

But even if that comes to pass (you read the dooooom here first folks!) Gang War by itself could spawn 9-12 pets, so you'd have 6 henchmen + up to 12 from Gang War + 2 lore Pets = up to 20 out at once, not counting a secondary pet.  That would still put Thugs as most pets on the field at a single time.  Impressive!

 

Anyone ever play Undead Horde: Necropolis?  COH starting to remind me a little of that.  Or if you are really old school...remember the Overlord franchise?  Those games were my go-to when COH died the first time just to get a feel for herds of pets.  

But gang war produces something like 10 henchmen per instance.
Double gang war?  I'll let you do the math.

[Hyperstrike]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:36 PM, Norl said:

MMs shouldn't be gimped if they don't take pew pews.  I always thought it novel to play as the support for your own little personal group.  They attack, you support them.

 

As I mentioned, if I wanted to attack myself, there's 18 other ATs, and 12,000 other games to do that in!

The one gimping them is the player.
Not the designer.

[jkwak]

If we count stuff like gang war for thugs or ghosts and spectres for Necro,

I have never counted those small living Hellfire things Demon MMs can summon thru Hell on Earth they seem to be a lot, did anyone count them?

Edited July 1 by jkwak

[tidge]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:17 PM, TheSpiritFox said:

Brings me to another needed MM balance pass. Personal attacks from MM primaries need to have end use cut flatly in half to bring us in line with other ATs, and secondary probably needs end use cut by a flat 25% across the board as well.  The entire point of double end use was that our pets do the attacking, if we're going to be required to be attacking alongside for our sets to get the same benefit, we should be on the same endurance scale as other classes. 

 

I can almost understand this point, but I disagree with cutting the Endurance cost of MM powers. Bluntly: I disagree that MMs have to be attacking. My primary MM (Robotics) performs better (against lots of content) when the MM is cycling between Pulse Rifle Burst, Photon Grenade and Mace Beam Volley... but I've got those powers slotted with sets to improve Endurance cost and (outside of big sacks of HP) the primary reason those attacks are used is to grab aggro (and maybe apply %-Res)... not to do damage.

 

It does take some effort and choices to run a MM that is constantly spamming its own powers, running toggles, etc. I don't think the Endurance costs are out-of-line with the performance of the AT. This may just be my feeling, but I think if the MM didn't have the Endurance tax, it is likely that they'd either end up being played as a different sort of AT, or being even better in some content. On my primary MM, the Endurance tax is one of the few design limits it has... I can otherwise carry the level-shifted henchmen through a LOT of content without worry.