Dual Pistols skill: Piercing Rounds cone is too narrow

[beloved]

So I've been maining a DP/Sonic Corruptor and been having a blast. Very team oriented and I love when the tank pulls a group and I get to use my AoE cones on groups before Scourging down the stragglers.

 

My issue is that for a set with FOUR AoE abilities, this one functions essentially as a single target skill. I'm not sure I understand the point of having it be BOTH a NARROW cone (may as well be a straight line for all the times I've used it) and it's limited to only hitting THREE enemies.

 

My suggestion is simple: Widen the cone but keep the limit at three enemies. This means that we will actually get use out of its intended multi-target effect and it will actually hit more than one unit.

 

I've seen several people mention on the forums that DP is an underpowered ranged damage set, I will admit I don't have the experience or know-how to say if this is true. I do think this slight change would fit the playstyle a little more.

[jack_nomind]

may as well be a straight line for all the times I've used it

 

Without commenting on whether or not it *ought* to work that way, I think that was the intent -- thematically, you shoot a bullet so hard that it goes through the first target and into the second and third in a straight line. 

 

Several melee powers work very similarly.  They are, for likewise similar reasons, universally evaluated as ST attacks by melee players.

[Trickshooter]

Think of Piercing Rounds as a single-target attack that does a little less damage than it should in order to hit up to 3 targets. Trying to make it a better AoE will only be opening a can of worms, I think. As an 80ft cone, it already breaks the damage formula, doing more than double the damage it should. If it did appropriate damage, it would only do 67.52 damage unslotted at level 50, when it currently does 143.89.

[beloved]

Think of Piercing Rounds as a single-target attack that does a little less damage than it should in order to hit up to 3 targets. Trying to make it a better AoE will only be opening a can of worms, I think. As an 80ft cone, it already breaks the damage formula, doing more than double the damage it should. If it did appropriate damage, it would only do 67.52 damage unslotted at level 50, when it currently does 143.89.

 

WHY should I think of it as a single target attack when it is by definition narrow cone with a max of three targets? How would it open a can of worms on what people call an underpowered power set? If the 3 target limit remains, what's the issue? It still can't hit more than 3 people, which is what the developers intended a decade ago.

[SwitchFade]

Unfortunately, I cannot consider this change at this time, as the evidence supporting the change is anecdotal.

 

At this time I must unfortunately vote no.

 

However, should this be a strong belief for change, I encourage further research, in order to produce data that empirically shows that the current state is in some way broke, an aberation that was unintended, or underperforming abnormally.

 

Thematically, this narrow cone is as intended, and not one you would position for, much like other attacks that are described as hitting so hard they may even travel through the target to foes directly behind.

[Trickshooter]

Think of Piercing Rounds as a single-target attack that does a little less damage than it should in order to hit up to 3 targets. Trying to make it a better AoE will only be opening a can of worms, I think. As an 80ft cone, it already breaks the damage formula, doing more than double the damage it should. If it did appropriate damage, it would only do 67.52 damage unslotted at level 50, when it currently does 143.89.

 

WHY should I think of it as a single target attack when it is by definition narrow cone with a max of three targets? How would it open a can of worms on what people call an underpowered power set? If the 3 target limit remains, what's the issue? It still can't hit more than 3 people, which is what the developers intended a decade ago.

 

I'm just saying if you want Piercing Rounds to act more like a cone, expect for it to also do damage more like a cone, which would be a significant nerf. As of right now, it's basically a snipe with no interrupt timer that can hit up to 3 enemies.

[Williwaw]

Think of Piercing Rounds as a single-target attack that does a little less damage than it should in order to hit up to 3 targets. Trying to make it a better AoE will only be opening a can of worms, I think. As an 80ft cone, it already breaks the damage formula, doing more than double the damage it should. If it did appropriate damage, it would only do 67.52 damage unslotted at level 50, when it currently does 143.89.

 

WHY should I think of it as a single target attack when it is by definition narrow cone with a max of three targets? How would it open a can of worms on what people call an underpowered power set? If the 3 target limit remains, what's the issue? It still can't hit more than 3 people, which is what the developers intended a decade ago.

 

Because its damage formula is that of a single-target attack.  As noted in the very post you quoted, "fixing" it to be a proper AoE also means cutting its damage in half.  You don't get both.  If you want a weak wide-angle cone, you already have Empty Clips.

 

The concept of the power is, again, that you're shooting one bullet so hard that the it goes through the first enemy to hit a target or two behind them.  The concept is not shooting one bullet so hard that it somehow hits enemies to the side in a huge area.

[Harrow]

Barring some serious rebalancing, yeah, think of Piercing Rounds as a single-target attack that has some bonus AoE damage depending on how enemies are positioned.

 

Believe me, I would love some DP buffs (I personally think it could use a small damage bump all around, nothing huge but just a little to make up for not having Aim), but Piercing Rounds is strong enough as a single-target attack that I think its inconsistent AoE isn't that big of a deal.

[beloved]

Okay. I was ignorant to the aoe-range-to-damage formula that is apparently going on behind the scenes. If widening the cone would reduce the damage, I can't say I'd hate that, but now I at least understand the reasoning.

 

I appreciate the discussion and insight.

[Harrow]

I think the reason I'm all right with it now is because DP has several other AoE attacks--I don't really feel like I'm lacking AoE at all with Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, and Hail of Bullets also available. Piercing Rounds working as a strong single-target attack with some bonus AoE if you're lucky is fine by me, just because I wouldn't really want to trade single-target damage for even more AoE, y'know?

[beloved]

I think the reason I'm all right with it now is because DP has several other AoE attacks--I don't really feel like I'm lacking AoE at all with Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, and Hail of Bullets also available. Piercing Rounds working as a strong single-target attack with some bonus AoE if you're lucky is fine by me, just because I wouldn't really want to trade single-target damage for even more AoE, y'know?

 

I understand, and I didn't understand that there's a "damage formula" or derivation between AoE range and damage.

 

Although if we're being completely straight, it could be changed to have a larger aoe and still retain it's damage and number of targets, which I STILL think is reasonable. Especially considering the servers are slightly laggy and I have to sit in place for half a second before using a cone skill, or else it registers I used it from a different position and i only hit one enemy. But that might be a personal problem.

[SwitchFade]

I think the reason I'm all right with it now is because DP has several other AoE attacks--I don't really feel like I'm lacking AoE at all with Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, and Hail of Bullets also available. Piercing Rounds working as a strong single-target attack with some bonus AoE if you're lucky is fine by me, just because I wouldn't really want to trade single-target damage for even more AoE, y'know?

 

I understand, and I didn't understand that there's a "damage formula" or derivation between AoE range and damage.

 

Although if we're being completely straight, it could be changed to have a larger aoe and still retain it's damage and number of targets, which I STILL think is reasonable. Especially considering the servers are slightly laggy and I have to sit in place for half a second before using a cone skill, or else it registers I used it from a different position and i only hit one enemy. But that might be a personal problem.

 

I see your opinion, and disagree, as both another cone and high single Target dps is unreasonable.

[Redlynne]

Vote:  NO.

[Zumberge]

may as well be a straight line for all the times I've used it

 

Without commenting on whether or not it *ought* to work that way, I think that was the intent -- thematically, you shoot a bullet so hard that it goes through the first target and into the second and third in a straight line. 

 

Several melee powers work very similarly.  They are, for likewise similar reasons, universally evaluated as ST attacks by melee players.

 

As someone who's done some weird, hacky tricks in game modding, Piercing Rounds is absolutely a weird hacky trick, using a shotgun mechanic to reproduce a railgun effect.  It's actually pretty clever.

[Solvernia]

The only complaint I have about Piercing Rounds is the animation time. Treat it as a single-target attack that sometimes hits the guy behind it, like Head Splitter or Shatter, and you'll be fine. The best part about it being technically a cone is that you can slot Annihilation in it for extra -res.

 

DP is definitely not an underperforming powerset. Even on defenders/corruptors, chemical ammo is a very powerful debuff.

[Novacat]

Piercing Rounds is a lot like Piercing Beam. They may seem a little quirky at first but if you take the time to learn them well they're incredibly valuable.

 

Since each counts as a slightly less efficient (bit higher cast time and endurance/recharge) Tier 3 ('heavy') blast, in effect this gives you a second one, though marginally less preferable against a single target priority-wise than your real T3... But there's that -Res both pack which mean you'll want to fire it early instead.

 

If you hit even ONE more target you've doubled your damage - which is equivalent to catching 4.6 targets with Bullet Rain. You're doing proper single target damage to a boss, and probably shredding half the health off one of his Lts despite your "single target" shot. And they've been mildly deres'd. I've got the beam version on my main and it's the first thing I put a 6th slot in.

 

Heavily concentrated AoE when I need it. A perfectly serviceable heavy single target attack when I need it. More I used it the handier it got, quickly finishing the harder targets where the bigger AoEs have already dropped most of the henchman chaff.

 

It is a line attack, and it is wonderful.