Shield Tanker: SS or Fiery Melee

[Shadowstorm06]

For a Shield Tanker, would you recommend Super Strength or Fiery Melee?

 

Fiery seems like it might be the more consistent performer, with decent AOE and ST. You also don’t need to worry about defense dropping from a rage crash. Shield Charge + FSC + Combustion seems like mayhem.

 

Super Strength seems like it might have higher peaks and lower valleys. Rage + AAO seems like it’ll really ramp damage. The rage crash on a primarily defensive set is concerning though. Shield Charge + Foot Stomp is probably tons of fun.

 

Which would you pair with Shield Defense?

[nihilii]

I think you've made the right case for either.

 

Personally, I'd make it Shield/SS just to use an attack chain including Rage-boosted Mesmerize procced for heal, like discussed here. At 12s base recharge it's a great fit to replace Gloom, which used to have that same recharge but was bumped to 16s.

[Freemason]

As a biased and huge fan of Shield/SS I have to say there are few things more satisfying than Shield Charge + Foot Stomp + Mighty Judgement triple combo.

I love my Fire/Fire tanker, and while FSC is fantastic it just doesn't *FEEL* as impactful as Foot Stomp. Additionally I recently started a Shield/Electric tanker to play around with the Shield Charge / Lightning Rod combo which also sounds crazy fun, although I hear it is a truly special combo for a stalker as I heard it doesn't break your hide.

[ZemX]

29 minutes ago, Freemason said:

although I hear it is a truly special combo for a stalker as I heard it doesn't break your hide.

 

It does not break Hide but it isn't special either.  It's no advantage to the Stalker at all since SC and LR do not crit either.  As a Stalker you are better off walking, leaping, or teleporting to the center of the pack first and then using you best normal AoE attack from your primary or epic pool to gain the 100% (50% for AoE) crit chance from Hide.  THEN use SC or LR.  Same damage.  Zero risk of Hide being spoiled by a counter-attack.

[BuiltDifferent5]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

I think you've made the right case for either.

 

Personally, I'd make it Shield/SS just to use an attack chain including Rage-boosted Mesmerize procced for heal, like discussed here. At 12s base recharge it's a great fit to replace Gloom, which used to have that same recharge but was bumped to 16s.

Wow this is a really cool idea. Are there other heal procs than call of the sandman to put in there?

[Warboss]

4 hours ago, nihilii said:

I think you've made the right case for either.

 

Personally, I'd make it Shield/SS just to use an attack chain including Rage-boosted Mesmerize procced for heal, like discussed here. At 12s base recharge it's a great fit to replace Gloom, which used to have that same recharge but was bumped to 16s.

 

Is Rage boosting the heal aspect, or just the accuracy of the power (therefore the change of hitting/proc occurring)? If accuracy, seems like running Tactics on a SD/IM/PSi Tanker would present the opportunity to run two powers with that proc.

 

Nvm, the CotS proc can only be slotted once.... oh well...

Edited March 26 by Warboss

[nihilii]

52 minutes ago, BuiltDifferent5 said:

Wow this is a really cool idea. Are there other heal procs than call of the sandman to put in there?

 

There is Entropic Chaos, but the heal is not as strong. I think we get the most bang for our buck with just Call of the Sandman.

My planned slotting is: 4 apocs (damage proc + dam/rech + dam/end + rech/acc), gladiator damage proc, and sandman proc. Slotting recharge hurts the proc chances but is required for my build to chain Haymaker -> Mesmerize -> KO Blow -> Haymaker -> Mesmerize -> Foot Stomp. There's probably something smarter to do by including Cross Punch, which I tend to avoid if I can.

 

4 minutes ago, Warboss said:

Is Rage boosting the heal aspect, or just the accuracy of the power (therefore the change of hitting/proc occurring)? If accuracy, seems like running Tactics on a SD/IM/PSi Tanker would present the opportunity to run two powers with that proc.

It only boosts the accuracy and damage of Mesmerize, not the heal aspect. Yeah, seems like Ice Melee could be an interesting fit - it's another powerset with relatively weak native attacks who can use some shoring up from epics, too.

[Warboss]

Looks like PSi Tornado can take a decent amount of procs, Force Feedback's +Recharge, Sudden Acceleration's KB>KD, Bombardment's Fire Damage, and Annihilation's -Res, which would make it a pretty nice power. On top of that with a 10 second duration and ~10 recharge, starts to look pretty nice.

Edited March 26 by Warboss

[Zect]

 

5 hours ago, nihilii said:

Personally, I'd make it Shield/SS just to use an attack chain including Rage-boosted Mesmerize procced for heal, like discussed here. At 12s base recharge it's a great fit to replace Gloom, which used to have that same recharge but was bumped to 16s.

If you want, SS can also fit an entomb proc in KOB. So with the ATIO2 proc you potentially have 2 absorb procs and 1 heal proc going off in your attack chain, and with harmonized mind you can also have total 3 passive heal procs. It’s an impressive amount of sustain for a set that is such an offensive juggernaut and allows you to turtle up at a moments notice when desired. 

 

Just be warned that a procced 2x rage shield/SS is among the highest eps consumption toons in the entire game. 

Edited March 26 by Zect

[Shadowstorm06]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

 

There is Entropic Chaos, but the heal is not as strong. I think we get the most bang for our buck with just Call of the Sandman.

My planned slotting is: 4 apocs (damage proc + dam/rech + dam/end + rech/acc), gladiator damage proc, and sandman proc. Slotting recharge hurts the proc chances but is required for my build to chain Haymaker -> Mesmerize -> KO Blow -> Haymaker -> Mesmerize -> Foot Stomp. There's probably something smarter to do by including Cross Punch, which I tend to avoid if I can.

 

It only boosts the accuracy and damage of Mesmerize, not the heal aspect. Yeah, seems like Ice Melee could be an interesting fit - it's another powerset with relatively weak native attacks who can use some shoring up from epics, too.

This is great info, thanks.

[Shadowstorm06]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

 

If you want, SS can also fit an entomb proc in KOB. So with the ATIO2 proc you potentially have 2 absorb procs and 1 heal proc going off in your attack chain, and with harmonized mind you can also have total 3 passive heal procs. It’s an impressive amount of sustain for a set that is such an offensive juggernaut and allows you to turtle up at a moments notice when desired. 

 

Just be warned that a procced 2x rage shield/SS is among the highest eps consumption toons in the entire game. 

I appreciate this, especially the call out on the Entomb slotting.

 

Quick follow up question: Does something like power transfer to heal or preventative medicine absorb go off in a passive power like Harmonized mind?

Endurance would be a challenge. Would have to maybe look at Cardiac for it.

[nihilii]

17 minutes ago, Shadowstorm06 said:

Quick follow up question: Does something like power transfer to heal or preventative medicine absorb go off in a passive power like Harmonized mind?

Endurance would be a challenge. Would have to maybe look at Cardiac for it.

Power Transfer works in Harmonized Mind. Preventive Medicine cannot be slotted there - it's a healing set - but it will work in a passive like Health, or True Grit.

Cardiac is a great pick. Given the damage stat is already so buffed with Rage, the opportunity cost of giving up Musculature is lower than it would be on any other character.

Edited March 26 by nihilii

[Sovera]

Fiery Melee. It's the best secondary we got ATM. Don't poo poo on it 'just' being the damage because dead things don't hit back. AoE starts at level 4.

 

Shield as a defense set will NOT like have 20% shaved off every time Rage crashes and Shield has no clickies other than Shield Charge to make use of the main appeal in SS being the FF proc in Footstomp. AoE opens at level 30.

 

If you like Shield hypothetically consider Stone Armor (Granite not needed).

 

 

Edited March 28 by Sovera

[Shadowstorm06]

21 hours ago, Sovera said:

Fiery Melee. It's the best secondary we got ATM. Don't poo poo on it 'just' being the damage because dead things don't hit back. AoE starts at level 2.

 

Shield as a defense set will NOT like have 20% shaved off every time Rage crashes and Shield has no clickies other than Shield Charge to make use of the main appeal in SS being the FF proc in Footstomp. AoE opens at level 30.

 

If you like Shield hypothetically consider Stone Armor (Granite not needed).

 

 

That is my fear with the Shield/SS pairing. I wasn't sure if the rage crash for it was minimal/easily mitigated, or if it neutered the pairing.

[Warboss]

Sounds like you need Fiery Melee to me... just sayin'.... BUT, don't let on to how great it is... can't have a bunch of FotM Tankers running around....

[Ashford]

Things to keep in mind with defensive, they just suck without the appropriate investment. Defensive based mitigation are very expensive and Shield is up on the list for most expensive. The character will be super squishy until the defense cap is reached . SS/shield is among the kind of builds that will require a proper mids guide to get right since the build will rely on other sources to maintain endurance. Personally, I would stick with resistant based mitigation like rad, electric, unless you got billions of currency laying about and a friend who will fire farm you.

[Sovera]

7 hours ago, Ashford said:

Things to keep in mind with defensive, they just suck without the appropriate investment. Defensive based mitigation are very expensive and Shield is up on the list for most expensive. The character will be super squishy until the defense cap is reached . SS/shield is among the kind of builds that will require a proper mids guide to get right since the build will rely on other sources to maintain endurance. Personally, I would stick with resistant based mitigation like rad, electric, unless you got billions of currency laying about and a friend who will fire farm you.

 

...as a Tanker those caps you speak of are reached by level 20 while leveling.

 

Okay, lets say 22 to use level 25 IOs though as someone who has leveled characters who were at 40% by level 13 I can say 40% is enough even doing +0x6 by then.

 

Spoiler

 

While leveling we have amplifiers so it would be 45% by level 22. Most expensive things would be around 12-13 million from the two +3% uniques. The Gaussians are 1-2 million each but lets say 2 million to round up, so 12 million. Strictly speaking not needed since they just give 2.5% and thus can be acquired later. The LotG can be replaced by a normal level 25 defense IO. Total = 24-ish million. I spend as much when making a new character and going through the START vendor to get all the teleports and powers I usually take.

 

45% is pedantic though, in the low levels 40% is enough to already be (near) immortal so even the two defense uniques can be done without though it makes more sense to go without the Gaussians since it takes a lot of early slots which can be used to slot attacks. So 42% by 22.

 

If it's anything like Stone Armor it's more level 40% by level 12 ignoring the Gaussians which is functionally immortal since low level mobs attack slowly with big gaps and don't hit hard.

 

By the time the amplifiers run out there are enough slots and bonuses to recoup those lost 5%.