Calculating DPS for different pylon levels compared to character level

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Currently there are level 50 through level 54 pylons / training dummies outside the main building in RWZ and level 54 pylons around RWZ, away from the main building. If one defeats a higher level pylon / training dummy than their character level, then a new formula is needed to calculate DPS. Does anybody know those formulae for levels 51 - 54 pylons, know where to find them, or have a clear idea about how to make them? 

One reason for wondering about this is that the even level pylons in RWZ can sometimes glitch out instead of respawn, leaving no even-level pylons available for testing on the live servers for fairly long periods of time. 

Thank you in advance for any help provided.

Edit: My first (perhaps overly simple) thought was to divide the usual DPS total as calculated for an even level pylon by the proportion of damage done as per the purple patch reduction, given the level difference. So, for example, a 200 DPS total under the usual even level pylon formula would get divided by 0.48 and would slightly more than double against a pylon that is 4 levels higher than the character. 

To help make this last paragraph a bit easier to follow, against mobs that are +4 vs a character that character will do 48% of their usual damage. So, for example, a level 53 Cimeroran would take only 48% of the damage done against even level mobs from a level 49 character. A 52% reduction in damage is the purple patch effect on damage, in this case. 

Since -resistance isn't subject to purple patch effects and that is a key debuff which influences pylon defeat times, a simple purple patch damage adjustment might work. It could also produce hard-to-interpret numbers, though, when the chance of hitting a pylon falls below 95% for higher level pylons.  

On a related note, and to check, do incarnate bonus levels not apply when fighting pylons? So, for a 50+3 character, for example, it would seem that such a character won't become higher level than a level 50 pylon or training dummy. Is that correct?

Edited April 1 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Ratch_]

I don't have the mathematical savviness to answer the original question posed. But the pylons also have adjusted health values depending on levels as well which would have a more variant affect that a simple scaling calculation could not provide were the dps solved for calculating the dps difference for pylon levels. Many sets have DPS uptimes and downtimes and if lower hp values led to breakpoints that could have a rotation of powers used end all in the DPS uptime then we end up with inflated values that don't show the full picture of dps during downtimes.

Pylon runs sort of already suffer from this, but it's an expected and welcomed factor as it seems (sustained) burst is the metric desired and chased after. Still though, I would never feel personally comfortable having a dps calculated on a 28k hp pylon be in direct competition of a 38k hp pylon if in one circumstance the 28k pylon was dropped all in a build up power window while a 38k hp pylon would never be.

Edited April 1 by Ratch_

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Thank you for your response!

Didn't realize hit points for enemies scaled higher than for level 50 once level 51+ was reached. Not sure how I ended up missing (or perhaps forgetting) that. 

Higher hit points seems like it should lead to higher regen, as well, which will change two key parts of the DPS calculation formula for each higher level of a rikti pylon beyond 50. In theory, calculations can be adjusted by replacing hit points and regen figures for each level higher than 50 for a rikti pylon and then dividing the DPS total generated by the proportion of damage done after purple patch reductions to "normalize" the DPS calculations. Basically, adjust for how many more "base" hit points and how many more "regenerated" hit points need to be gotten through, then make an adjustment for how much damage is reduced by the level gap between the pylon and the player aiming to defeat it. That has the potential flaw of essentially ignoring the potential complication of to hit chances becoming lower than 95% as a pylon's level goes up. 

The points you make come across as well thought through about how relatively brief (de)buff cycles become less impactful when a pylon gets tougher. Perhaps level 50 pylons become the better "burst DPS" test and level 54 pylons come at least a bit closer to helping toward understanding "sustained" DPS. Different information comes from each kind of test, perhaps. 

Efforts to find the hit point totals for rikti pylons have so far hit a wall. City of data information about "boss monsters", which is apparently a rikti pylon's enemy type, showed a wall of data that was challenging to interpret. The wiki entry for rikti pylons doesn't show hit point totals. Is there a specific source to which to refer to figure out the level-adjusted point total of rikti pylons for level 51 and beyond?

Edited April 1 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Ratch_]

I used the power analyzer from p2w vendor to find out: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=temporary_powers.temporary_powers.power_analyzer

I'd like to see level 54 pylon runs as well as metrics. However I'm also not the best advocate for them as after 5 minutes of hitting them gets pretty boring for me 🙃 It would be cool to see a formula to adjust dps values onto the different pylon metrics though

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Unfortunately, the respawn rate for even level pylons beside the main RWZ building seems to be unpredictable. So, it would be handy if there was a way to scale the DPS calculation formula to match the specific level of whatever pylon was defeated.

Then DPS testing can be done whenever it fits our schedule, instead of happening in accordance with the whims of the "pylon respawn overlords."

I'll check out the power analyzer; never looked at it before, but it might be quite helpful now. I'll also need to look more into regeneration mechanics to make that adjustment to the formula as well for each pylon level beyond 50. 

Edited April 1 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Frosticus]

8 hours ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Since -resistance isn't subject to purple patch effects and that is a key debuff which influences pylon defeat times, a simple purple patch damage adjustment might work. It could also produce hard-to-interpret numbers, though, when the chance of hitting a pylon falls below 95% for higher level pylons.  

 

-res is definitely subject to the purple patch with very few exceptions like the sentinel inherent vulnerability

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Does that mean damage resistance debuffs are subject to purple patch effects? So, for example, would the -20% resistance debuff from an achilles heel be subject to purple patch effects and thereby reduced in its efficacy against higher level mobs than the character applying the debuff?

Looking back, my wording was probably imprecise. 

Edited April 1 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Frosticus]

Achilles is affected by purple patch (it wasn't at one point).

 

So to directly answer your question against a +4con, Achilles should only apply a 20%*0.48 = 9.6% -res. 

I

[Sovera]

4 hours ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Does that mean damage resistance debuffs are subject to purple patch effects? So, for example, would the -20% resistance debuff from an achilles heel be subject to purple patch effects and thereby reduced in its efficacy against higher level mobs than the character applying the debuff?

Looking back, my wording was probably imprecise. 

 

Yes, I've long made noises about the unfortunate reliance on the -res procs and how it creates a gigantic divide between the sets that can slot them and the sets that cannot (in my experience (but someone correct me) but two -res procs goes from a 25% damage difference at +0 to 5% at +3).

 

So yeah, there are a few under the hood mechanics for a simple equation. But not having -res is probably a start.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

As long as resistance debuffs are subject to purple patch effects then it's quite complicated to try to convert pylon defeat times against higher level pylons into DPS totals that would be generated from using the same build to defeat even level pylons. Because resistance debuffs in a build are fairly common with skills and/or -res IOs it would be best to save combat logs showing -res activation data, then do some spreadsheet calculations to account for purple patch effects for -res activations, and then calculate some kind of normalized-across-different-pylon-levels DPS from there. It's probably not worth the bother.

It's probably best (or at the very least, it's definitely simpler) to just treat defeats of level 54 pylons / training dummies as their own thing, distinct and separate from defeats of level 50 pylons / training dummies, rather than trying to normalize DPS calculations across all different pylon levels. 

Edited April 6 by EnjoyTheJourney

[RelativeQuanta]

Anyone know if purple patch combat modifiers affect debuff duration?  I created a simulation to test the effectiveness of Achilles' Heel -Res and I had set purple patch to affect debuff magnitude AND duration.   This may have been overkill and it pretty heavily neutered the -Res proc effect compared to a replacement +damage proc.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

If the following webpage is accurate, then debuff strength can be reduced by the purple patch, but debuff duration is not affected:

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch