Mercs/Pain or Mercs/FF - help?

[brasilgringo]

Toying with a Mercs/Pain build, never played either.  Have Necro/FF, Demons/Dark, Beast/Kin, Thugs/Time. 

 

Using I think @StrikerFox Mercs shell but don't really know how to slot /Pain (except to go for a lot of recharge to keep WoP perma etc) and what else to take, esp. post Epic-pool changes.  Anyone got advice?  Not a ton of /Pain builds recently on here nor pairings that looked meta with Mercs.

Mercs Pain new build.mbd

Edited April 14 by brasilgringo

[Meknomancer]

3 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Toying with a Mercs/Pain build, never played either.  Have Necro/FF, Demons/Dark, Beast/Kin, Thugs/Time. 

 

Using I think @StrikerFox Mercs shell but don't really know how to slot /Pain (except to go for a lot of recharge to keep WoP perma etc) and what else to take, esp. post Epic-pool changes.  Anyone got advice?  Not a ton of /Pain builds recently on here nor pairings that looked meta with Mercs.

Mercs Pain new build.mbd 44.92 kB · 1 download

 

First of all i recommend /storm /elec /thermal /traps with mercs if you haven't tried those. I have an incarnate mercs/pain and its my least played mercs mm after mercs/poison. 

 

Suppress Pain is only useful on necro pets, they are the only ones with any decent regen so i'd skip that. Pain works really well with necro but if you don't want to repeat a pet set i guess mercs is the next best.

M30 nade with a kb/kd and and ff+rech fired off once/mob will give you a ton of recharge and free up loads of slots.

WoP needs very little recharge, i tossed 2 ribo end res pieces in and its down to 93 seconds, m30 nade gets it perma.

 

Epics i went mu for the resistance, its easy to get 75% s/l/e.

 

There's a few necro/pain posts further back but i haven't seen many others it really isn't a great secondary when you compare what the others bring.  

[brasilgringo]

Thanks for the feedback. I could try /elec but I've always been put off by it not having a -res power (I think)?  Is thermal good still?  Felt old school.  Thanks again for tips.  Would welcome any build examples (will go search).

[Meknomancer]

3 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Thanks for the feedback. I could try /elec but I've always been put off by it not having a -res power (I think)?  Is thermal good still?  Felt old school.  Thanks again for tips.  Would welcome any build examples (will go search).

 

I don't mind posting them but i don't know how much help they will be, they aren't mini maxed for anything but my own fun (yes thermal is still tons of fun, its one of my fav combos)

Elec gets shock for some minor - regen and burst +m30 nade do bump pet damage by a puny amount but they don't stack

 

 

 

 

MERCS ELEC - Mastermind (Mercenaries - Electrical Affinity).mbd MERCS THERMAL - Mastermind (Mercenaries - Thermal Radiation).mbd MERCS PAIN - Mastermind (Mercenaries - Pain Domination).mbd

Edited April 11 by Meknomancer

[Xandyr]

Personally, I would take Soothe over Share Pain. Once you use Share Pain, you won't be able to heal yourself at all. 

 

May wanna swap the Shield Breakers in Anguishing Cry for Analyze Weakness....that 2.5% End Recovery bonus puts you over the cap.

 

The ACCY/End Reduction of your pets seems low. I wonder if the To Hit Bonus from Serum and WoP will make up for the Accy. 

 

 As far as Pain goes, it looks like you're on the right track. Slotting the Panacea proc in Suppress Pain gives it a chance to proc for ALL friendlies in its radius. So, as long as your pets (and teammates) are within the radius, then it'll Proc on them. Throw some Resist IOs (maybe Unbreakable Guard) in WoP, and might as well throw another 1 or 2 pieces of Gaussian's' in there. You've got it perma, along with Hasten, Painbringer, and Anguishing Cry. Good deal...even better that you've got Serum perma.

 

 I actually enjoyed Mercs/Pain. I do think that my Necro/Pain is sturdier, but Mercs are in a pretty good spot.

 

Have fun! THAT'S what's important.

[StrikerFox]

The build needs an armor from one of the epic/ancillary pools. Murky Cloud, Charged Armor, Scorpion Shield etc. With Murky Cloud, it's possible to get +75% res to S/L/F/C/E/N/P. I don't think I've ever played a high +res MM with high +res pets before. Just Bodyguard mode + Nullify Pain (On auto) + Suppress Pain alone will probably hammer through a lot content.

 

[brasilgringo]

FWIW i ended up going Mercs/FF as I've never played /Pain and I couldn't convince myself it would be better than stacking PB'd/Clarioned FF shields on top of Mercs.  I also am not sure if PB affects Serum.  Here's the build.  I did some pylon tests w/o using MM attacks or anything besides the Pets and I'm coming in several seconds longer than @StrikerFox tests. so maybe the pets aren't slotted in the optimal way.mercs-ff.mbd

 

(I also don't love web envelope, i was just chasing +rchrg from the purple sets but I could give it up. I non-proc'd M30 Grenade for a purple set for the same reason (the procs are in Force Bomb which seems to have a higher proc chance)

Edited April 14 by brasilgringo

[brasilgringo]

Pets summoned w/o any FF buffs:

 

Pets with boosted (PowerBoost) FF bubbles and Disp Bubble active (post fall-off of PB):

 

With PB & Clarion inside Disp. Bubble:

 

Toxic & Psionic def are only 22% though and that includes 10% from the 2 def unique pet IOs.

 

 

So the question is, remove the Edict of the Master Pet IO (Def bonus 5%) from Spec Ops for another proc (Shield Breaker Lethal)?

 

 

And/or remove the Call to Arms def proc (5%) from commando, or remove one or both of the Res procs in Commando?  Putting in the explosive strike / shield breaker / lady gray damage procs?

 

 

With current slotting, only using Pets (no MM powers), it's taking around  2:07 to defeat a Pylon (using Serum as up).  That's a lot longer than @StrikerFox got.  I think he used all procs.  

 

Thoughts?  

 

The res buff IOs are 10% each so i'd likely take out the def buff IOs and try to get by with 10% lower def on the pets, which should still have them just above the softcap (when standing in Disp Bubble) for M/R/A though I imagine they have poor DDR.

 

 

Edited April 14 by brasilgringo

[Tacheyon]

I know I am a bit late but 

 

My best Merc combo has been Merc/Nature.  Lots of heals (and Aborb), Cap on Resistance (Wild Growth + Serum), AOE Damage Boost, and some nice debuffs as well. 

 

All your team is ranged so you lay down Spores on your spot for the top off heal and let them go to town as the capped resistance will keep them from taking too much damage.  You just have to learn how to use your cone heal but that isn't too hard.  I picked up Clarion to cover my Mezz hole in the defenses and went Muscular + Hybrid to help out on the damage.

 

It's a tough little build and I haven't even gotten it fully IO'd out (due to Altitus).  It has a lot more to do than FF (IMO), but not as busy as /EA.

[brasilgringo]

Hm, tested with all the damage procs in as well as switching from Degen Radial to Reactive Radial, and doesn't seem to make much of a difference on kill time. Degen seems 10+ secs better than Reactive.

 

Snugging up the Mercs right next to the pylon so the melee it between ranged attacks doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Shrug.   Still like 2:08ish, maybe 2:01 if lucky, even with all the damage procs in place of the res/def procs.  

 

I even tried PowerBoosting Serum which doesn't seem to do much/anything. (Maybe someone knows if PowerBoost affects Serum?)

 

@StrikerFox any thoughts?  you were getting like 106 secs just with Mercs proc'd out weren't you? Apparently w/o Serum *boggle*. Were you running Assault or something as well?

If I only keep 1 damage proc in Commando, should it make a difference if it's the Lady Gray Negative Dmg or Smashing or Lethal damage, in terms of what attacks he uses that could trigger the proc?  That is, does he use one attack type more than another that has a better chance of triggering the damage proc if it's negative vs. smashing vs. lethal procs?

Edited April 14 by brasilgringo

[brasilgringo]

(using MM attacks and damping field I could get down to 1:14-1:18).

[StrikerFox]

55 minutes ago, brasilgringo said:

Hm, tested with all the damage procs in as well as switching from Degen Radial to Reactive Radial, and doesn't seem to make much of a difference on kill time. Degen seems 10+ secs better than Reactive.

 

Snugging up the Mercs right next to the pylon so the melee it between ranged attacks doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Shrug.   Still like 2:08ish, maybe 2:01 if lucky, even with all the damage procs in place of the res/def procs.  

 

I even tried PowerBoosting Serum which doesn't seem to do much/anything. (Maybe someone knows if PowerBoost affects Serum?)

 

@StrikerFox any thoughts?  you were getting like 106 secs just with Mercs proc'd out weren't you? Apparently w/o Serum *boggle*. Were you running Assault or something as well?

If I only keep 1 damage proc in Commando, should it make a difference if it's the Lady Gray Negative Dmg or Smashing or Lethal damage, in terms of what attacks he uses that could trigger the proc?  That is, does he use one attack type more than another that has a better chance of triggering the damage proc if it's negative vs. smashing vs. lethal procs?

 

That was so long ago. I think the slotting would look like this:

 

 

The SCotMM in Spec-Ops is acc/dam; the +damage IO in Commando is boosted to +5. I think on the Commando, Lady Grey is slightly better for single target since Burst is his most frequently used power. Explosive Strike is way better for AoE (Buckshot, M30 Grenade and LRM). Lady Grey over Shield Breaker for the exotic damage type (Neg energy vs lethal). If you only take one proc, pylon testing I would take Lady Grey, and Explosive Strike for normal gameplay.

No Assault Hybrid was toggled, only the passive bonus. Is that the BU proc in Commando? I remember it was always a dps increase slotted in the T1 pets.

 

Our numbers are not far off. You're getting 2m07s; I got 1m46s. 21 secs difference with less damage procs. Serum is good, much better than the previous version, but diminishing return makes it less effective over time. Procs are good as long as the pets can attack. 

[brasilgringo]

Thanks @StrikerFox. Yes I followed your slotting above for Soldiers (with the Soulbound BU) and other procs; the Soulbound in Comando is a +5'd Soulbound DAMAGE IO which I think is even higher than the standard IO +5'd.  

 

I actually replicated your slotting above for testing (all the damage procs) and still couldn't really break <2mins (though I only tested a few times).  So 2:07 with the 2 def IOs seemed a good trade-off vs. 2mins all procs.  Maybe you can test again on the test pylons if you get a chance.  I got better results with Degen than Reactive. 

 

I'll try Lady Gray in the commando for now. 

 

Does using Power Boost do anything for Serum?

 

(Spamming my MM attacks and FF buffs/debuffs, could get the Pylon down in 57 seconds, I guess that's pretty good)

Edited April 14 by brasilgringo

[Meknomancer]

2 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Thanks @StrikerFox. Yes I followed your slotting above for Soldiers (with the Soulbound BU) and other procs; the Soulbound in Comando is a +5'd Soulbound DAMAGE IO which I think is even higher than the standard IO +5'd.  

 

I actually replicated your slotting above for testing (all the damage procs) and still couldn't really break <2mins (though I only tested a few times).  So 2:07 with the 2 def IOs seemed a good trade-off vs. 2mins all procs.  Maybe you can test again on the test pylons if you get a chance.  I got better results with Degen than Reactive. 

 

I'll try Lady Gray in the commando for now. 

 

Does using Power Boost do anything for Serum?

 

(Spamming my MM attacks and FF buffs/debuffs, could get the Pylon down in 57 seconds, I guess that's pretty good)

 

Pretty sure PB does 0 for serum, it only affects defence, anything with resist in it is unaffected, like cold buffs.

[StrikerFox]

6 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Thanks @StrikerFox. Yes I followed your slotting above for Soldiers (with the Soulbound BU) and other procs; the Soulbound in Comando is a +5'd Soulbound DAMAGE IO which I think is even higher than the standard IO +5'd.  

 

I actually replicated your slotting above for testing (all the damage procs) and still couldn't really break <2mins (though I only tested a few times).  So 2:07 with the 2 def IOs seemed a good trade-off vs. 2mins all procs.  Maybe you can test again on the test pylons if you get a chance.  I got better results with Degen than Reactive. 

 

I'll try Lady Gray in the commando for now. 

 

Does using Power Boost do anything for Serum?

 

(Spamming my MM attacks and FF buffs/debuffs, could get the Pylon down in 57 seconds, I guess that's pretty good)

 

Retested and for 1m38s (98s) for 519dps.

 

Incarnates: Musculature Core Alpha, Reactive Radial Interface, Assault Radial Hybrid (Passive only).

Buffs: Leadership PP - Tactics and Assault

 

Slotting is pictured in my previous post. No Serum or other buffs/debuffs from the secondary were used. Made a video and attached the combat log if they will help. Can probably shave a bit of time because the Soldiers ran out of endurance because I did not use Serum. Since it's a pylon test run, Overwhelming Force proc could be replaced with Soulbound dam/end IO.

 

chatlog 2024-04-14.txt

 

 

I'm only using the mentioned incarnates but have the others slotted so my pets are level shifted to +1. Maybe double check your IOs. Seriously, I've purchased and slotted the wrong LotGs and wondered why my recharge was so slow. The wrong Achilles' or a -def Lady Grey IO instead of the damage proc would affect pylon time. Were Catalysts used on all the ATOs and now the superior versions? If you have a combat log, check your proc damage. if it's constantly around 57 damage, there's a problem with your Achilles'. Or are you summoning pets, switching procs around and then testing? If procs and IOs are swapped around, the pets need to be dismissed and resummoned otherwise they will not get the updated slotting. I'm grasping at straws, I really do not know what's causing the variation between our pylon times. I'm sure there's a solution.

 

[brasilgringo]

Thanks, I will try to test next couple of days, work/life permitting. Will report back. Running Assault is likely part of it.

 

No time to respec yet so here are tests w/o Leadership pool buffs.

 

Degen Radial Core
Support Core slotted not used
all dmg proc

--with Serum
1:32
1:30

--without Serum
1:47 - running out of end
1:48

 

with Serum and Support Core active and MM attacks/2ndary (FF)
no Pyronic
0:53
0:53

 

With Support Core no Serum or MM attacks/Secondary
(+12% dmg to approx. assault)
1:39
1:54
1:39

 

If you believe support core is a proxy for Assault, the times line up with yours.  I'll try to test leadership next day or two after respec, and i'll try to see what impact puttting the pet uniques for res back in have  (fewer dmg procs).

Edited April 15 by brasilgringo

[StrikerFox]

10 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

with Serum and Support Core active and MM attacks/2ndary (FF)
no Pyronic
0:53
0:53

 

I'm surprised Support Core and MM attacks shaved 40secs off your other pylon times. Good job man! 

[brasilgringo]

On 4/15/2024 at 4:27 PM, brasilgringo said:

Thanks, I will try to test next couple of days, work/life permitting. Will report back. Running Assault is likely part of it.

 

No time to respec yet so here are tests w/o Leadership pool buffs.

 

Degen Radial Core
Support Core slotted not used
all dmg proc

--with Serum
1:32
1:30

--without Serum
1:47 - running out of end
1:48

 

with Serum and Support Core active and MM attacks/2ndary (FF)
no Pyronic
0:53
0:53

 

With Support Core no Serum or MM attacks/Secondary
(+12% dmg to approx. assault)
1:39
1:54
1:39

 

If you believe support core is a proxy for Assault, the times line up with yours.  I'll try to test leadership next day or two after respec, and i'll try to see what impact puttting the pet uniques for res back in have  (fewer dmg procs).

 

FWIW I've been able to get this Ninja/TA build below down to 1.01-1.03 but not beat the Mercs.  Part of the issue is likely that the Ninja build gave up some procs in the pets and slotted more for the MM.  I probably could rebuild and take more Ninja MM attacks for extra crit chance too.  But it's reasonably good on teams as is, with /TA.  The pets on their own have MUCH lower pylon times then the Mercs.

 

Ninja Looter - Mastermind (Ninjas - TA) v6.mbd