Dr. Hetzfeld bug

[NoRA]

When trying to play undercover as a resistance member among the Loyalists, I was given a mission to meet Dr. Hetzfeld. I did the mission, but he didn't have any missions for me. So I filed a "support" report that it was bugged and made another character to test and make sure it WAS bugged. While I was getting that character up to his level range, GM Willow asked a few questions including what alignment I was,  and I had forgotten that was a thing. So I made another new character on another server to see if THAT changed anything. It did. I think Dr. Hetzfeld is bugged to not give missions to any "Resistance" players, even if they're actually "Loyalist" working undercover.

Edited April 28 by NoRA

[Vic Raiden]

Well, he is part of the Power storyline, which is only available to characters who are Loyalist-aligned at the time.

[Lunar Ronin]

Yeah, that's not a bug.  You actually have to be the Loyalist alignment and not undercover to get Loyalist Power story arcs, just as you have to actually be Resistance alignment and not undercover to get Resistance Crusader story arcs.

[NoRA]

Ok, I doubt that, but maybe I'm wrong, so I'll find another contact to try things with. I DO think it's really weird that I got a mission to go meet him and then he didn't give me the time of day...

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, NoRA said:

Ok, I doubt that, but maybe I'm wrong, so I'll find another contact to try things with. I DO think it's really weird that I got a mission to go meet him and then he didn't give me the time of day...

Here's the thing about gold side and its alignments. All it takes for you to be an undercover Resistance member among the Loyalists is for you to complete the tutorial as a Resistance member, then change alignments to Loyalist. Just like you have to be a Villain or Rogue alignment to do red side arcs and you have to be a Hero or Vigilante alignment to do so blue side arcs, as in those are your missions rather than someone else's that you are teamed with, you have to be a Loyalist alignment in order to do Loyalist arcs and you have to be a Resistance alignment in order to do Resistance arcs regardless of what alignment you ended the tutorial as. (Edit: It's just that if you complete the tutorial as a Resistance member and all your morality mission choices after are Resistance, then you are a proud Resistance member. Congrats. If you complete the tutorial as a Resistance member and your morality mission choice after is Loyalist, then you saw the light as Powers Division as far as the Loyalists are concerned but you are a secret Resistance member as far as Calvin Scott is concerned.)

 

Look at it this way. If you are an undercover Resistance member infiltrating the Loyalists, you don't want to be showing your Resistance affiliation. And each time you do a morality choice single player mission, that is what you are doing. So if your last morality single player mission gold side ended with you choosing the Resistance option, then you are a Resistance member as far as gold side is concerned and the Loyalist contacts won't have anything to do with you.

Edited April 28 by Rudra

[NoRA]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Here's the thing about gold side and its alignments. All it takes for you to be an undercover Resistance member among the Loyalists is for you to complete the tutorial as a Resistance member, then change alignments to Loyalist. Just like you have to be a Villain or Rogue alignment to do red side arcs and you have to be a Hero or Vigilante alignment to do so blue side arcs, as in those are your missions rather than someone else's that you are teamed with, you have to be a Loyalist alignment in order to do Loyalist arcs and you have to be a Resistance alignment in order to do Resistance arcs regardless of what alignment you ended the tutorial as. (Edit: It's just that if you complete the tutorial as a Resistance member and all your morality mission choices after are Resistance, then you are a proud Resistance member. Congrats. If you complete the tutorial as a Resistance member and your morality mission choice after is Loyalist, then you saw the light as Powers Division as far as the Loyalists are concerned but you are a secret Resistance member as far as Calvin Scott is concerned.)

 

Look at it this way. If you are an undercover Resistance member infiltrating the Loyalists, you don't want to be showing your Resistance affiliation. And each time you do a morality choice single player mission, that is what you are doing. So if your last morality single player mission gold side ended with you choosing the Resistance option, then you are a Resistance member as far as gold side is concerned and the Loyalist contacts won't have anything to do with you.

Now THIS I can say you might have wrong. I HAVE gone to contacts in Nova Praetoria as the "wrong" alignment, and they DO talk to you, because all your contacts initially in Nova are "Loyalist" and they're supposed to be available to everyone. I DID make resistance characters without doing any other "morality" stuff, and still got missions from Cleopatra.

[Lunar Ronin]

28 minutes ago, NoRA said:

Now THIS I can say you might have wrong. I HAVE gone to contacts in Nova Praetoria as the "wrong" alignment, and they DO talk to you, because all your contacts initially in Nova are "Loyalist" and they're supposed to be available to everyone. I DID make resistance characters without doing any other "morality" stuff, and still got missions from Cleopatra.

 

Cleopatra is a Loyalist Responsibility story arc contact.

 

If you're Loyalist, you can do Loyalist Responsibility, Loyalist Power, and Resistance Warden story arcs.  You cannot do Resistance Crusader story arcs, even "undercover."

 

If you're Resistance, you can do Resistance Warden, Resistance Crusader, and Loyalist Responsibility story arcs.  You cannot do Loyalist Power story arcs, even "undercover."

[ZorkNemesis]

2 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

If you're Resistance, you can do Resistance Warden, Resistance Crusader, and Loyalist Responsibility story arcs.  You cannot do Loyalist Power story arcs, even "undercover."

 

This is partially incorrect.  You cannot do Power storyarcs undercover in Nova and Neutropolis, but you can do the Power arcs in Imperial City and are even encouraged to by Calvin Scott; this is done by choosing to kill Cleopatra when given the option and becoming a full fledged Loyalist.  Similarly a Loyalist undercover can do the Imperial City Crusader line by opting to let Arvin escape and become a Resistance member, but a Loyalist cannot run Crusader in Nova or Neutropolis.

 

The infiltration storylines, as intended, are Warden > change alignment > Crusader > change alignment > Warden, and Responsibility > change > Power > change > Responsibility.

[NoRA]

On 4/28/2024 at 8:57 PM, ZorkNemesis said:

 

This is partially incorrect.  You cannot do Power storyarcs undercover in Nova and Neutropolis, but you can do the Power arcs in Imperial City and are even encouraged to by Calvin Scott; this is done by choosing to kill Cleopatra when given the option and becoming a full fledged Loyalist.  Similarly a Loyalist undercover can do the Imperial City Crusader line by opting to let Arvin escape and become a Resistance member, but a Loyalist cannot run Crusader in Nova or Neutropolis.

 

The infiltration storylines, as intended, are Warden > change alignment > Crusader > change alignment > Warden, and Responsibility > change > Power > change > Responsibility.

Thank you. THIS I think you got right, and I got wrong. I had a hard time believing it, but I just outleveled the contacts while trying to play a double agent, and wasn't able to officially switch.

[Frozen Burn]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:57 PM, ZorkNemesis said:

 

This is partially incorrect.  You cannot do Power storyarcs undercover in Nova and Neutropolis, but you can do the Power arcs in Imperial City and are even encouraged to by Calvin Scott; this is done by choosing to kill Cleopatra when given the option and becoming a full fledged Loyalist.  Similarly a Loyalist undercover can do the Imperial City Crusader line by opting to let Arvin escape and become a Resistance member, but a Loyalist cannot run Crusader in Nova or Neutropolis.

 

The infiltration storylines, as intended, are Warden > change alignment > Crusader > change alignment > Warden, and Responsibility > change > Power > change > Responsibility.

 

You also are partially incorrect. 

 

You can switch and be undercover in Nova, Imperial, and Neutropolis.  Being "undercover" has nothing to do with warden/crusader or responsibility/power storylines... it is simply switching sides from your original alignment, and then when running arcs from your NEW alignment, you will be presented with opportunities to call up either Calvin Scott or Marchand (depending on your original alignment).  These opportunities occur in all factions:  Warden, Crusader, Responsibility, and Power - and in arcs in all 3 zones.  So...

 

• If you started Resistance, then switch to Loyalist, and while running Loyalist Responsibility and Power story arcs, you will see Blue text in your mission dialogue prompting you to call Calvin Scott for your "undercover" reporting.
• If you started Loyalist, switch to Resistance, and while running Resistance Warden and Crusader story arcs, you will see Yellow text in your mission dialogue prompting you to call Marchand to for your "undercover" reporting.

Again, this can happen in all three zones:  Nova, Imperial City, and Neutropolis.  Most don't get to do it very much, especially in Nova, because of out leveling. But if you turn off earning xp at times, you can experience it all.

 

@NoRA

 

[NoRA]

So basically I was TRYING to be undercover, and failed miserably

[Frozen Burn]

2 hours ago, NoRA said:

So basically I was TRYING to be undercover, and failed miserably

 

In rereading your opening post again, If you started as Resistance and eventually became Loyalist, Dr. Hetzfeld would give you his story arc.  If I recall correctly, not all contacts can you betray (ie - blue text upon mission acceptance to call Calvin Scott may not always come up, and vice versa with Marchand).  You may have been doing it all correctly, but there was probably just no option to betray Hetzfeld.  Been a while since I've done that, so don't exactly remember specifically for him, but i do know not all contacts can be betrayed/reported on.

[Rudra]

31 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

In rereading your opening post again, If you started as Resistance and eventually became Loyalist, Dr. Hetzfeld would give you his story arc.  If I recall correctly, not all contacts can you betray (ie - blue text upon mission acceptance to call Calvin Scott may not always come up, and vice versa with Marchand).  You may have been doing it all correctly, but there was probably just no option to betray Hetzfeld.  Been a while since I've done that, so don't exactly remember specifically for him, but i do know not all contacts can be betrayed/reported on.

Uhm... you can't choose to betray Dr. Hetzfeld to Calvin Scott because you already betray him as part of his story arc. Or rather, he betrays you.

[Frozen Burn]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Uhm... you can't choose to betray Dr. Hetzfeld to Calvin Scott because you already betray him as part of his story arc. Or rather, he betrays you.

 

That's what I thought, but wasn't 100% sure.  

[Apogee]

Don't get hung up on the whole undercover agent story line.  The game looks at your current allegiance not what you originally chose.  Lunar Ronin has it correct.  If your allegiance is Resistance (regardless of how you chose in the tutorial) you cannot access Loyalist Power arcs.  If you are Loyalist, you cannot access Resistance Crusader arcs.  If you want to complete all of the story arcs in a zone you need to switch allegiance at least once.

 

To the OP, you were likely a Loyalist when you were sent to see Dr. Hetzfeld and subsequently switched to Resistance which locked you out from his story.  If you switch back to Loyalist you will be able to get missions from Hetzfeld, Bobcat, and Neuron.

 

These are only some of the pitfalls of running story arcs in Praetoria (1-20).  If you are not careful you can easily out level contacts in each zone (I turn off XP at level 10 in Nova, 15 in Imperial, and 20 in Neutropolis to avoid out leveling contacts).  You can also remove contacts completely if you do story arcs in the wrong order and thus miss out on their missions.  Run the Resistance Warden arcs (up to Seer 1381) in Imperial City before completing Interrogator Kang's last mission and don't take any missions from Calvin Scott until after you have completed Crow and Helix story arcs in Neutropolis (Resistance Crusader).

[NoRA]

2 hours ago, Apogee said:

Don't get hung up on the whole undercover agent story line.  The game looks at your current allegiance not what you originally chose.  Lunar Ronin has it correct.  If your allegiance is Resistance (regardless of how you chose in the tutorial) you cannot access Loyalist Power arcs.  If you are Loyalist, you cannot access Resistance Crusader arcs.  If you want to complete all of the story arcs in a zone you need to switch allegiance at least once.

 

To the OP, you were likely a Loyalist when you were sent to see Dr. Hetzfeld and subsequently switched to Resistance which locked you out from his story.  If you switch back to Loyalist you will be able to get missions from Hetzfeld, Bobcat, and Neuron.

 

These are only some of the pitfalls of running story arcs in Praetoria (1-20).  If you are not careful you can easily out level contacts in each zone (I turn off XP at level 10 in Nova, 15 in Imperial, and 20 in Neutropolis to avoid out leveling contacts).  You can also remove contacts completely if you do story arcs in the wrong order and thus miss out on their missions.  Run the Resistance Warden arcs (up to Seer 1381) in Imperial City before completing Interrogator Kang's last mission and don't take any missions from Calvin Scott until after you have completed Crow and Helix story arcs in Neutropolis (Resistance Crusader).

Ok, to give more information, that toon started Loyalist, and switched to Resistance in the arc ahainst Mother Mayhem. I THEN did some missions on the loyalist side to try being an "undercover" Resistance agent working for Loyalist contacts. I THEN got the mission to go meet Dr. Hetzfeld, completed it, and nothing happened. I don't remember who sent me to meet him, but I DO remember him not showing up in my active contents. I was confused and decided to test it a bit more before posting this here as repeatable.

[Apogee]

3 hours ago, NoRA said:

Ok, to give more information, that toon started Loyalist, and switched to Resistance in the arc ahainst Mother Mayhem. I THEN did some missions on the loyalist side to try being an "undercover" Resistance agent working for Loyalist contacts. I THEN got the mission to go meet Dr. Hetzfeld, completed it, and nothing happened. I don't remember who sent me to meet him, but I DO remember him not showing up in my active contents. I was confused and decided to test it a bit more before posting this here as repeatable.

 

What level were you when this happened?

 

Praetor Tilman (Mother Mayhem) does not have a morality mission to change allegiance, that comes at the end of Anti-Matter's arc (the next contact after Tilman).

 

Next to your Health/Endurance/XP bar is an icon, either blue chevrons (Resistance) or a gold star (Loyalist).  This icon shows which side you are currently aligned with, and determines who will give you missions.  What icon was/is displayed (blue chevron or gold star)?

[Eiko-chan]

Unless HC has changed the coding, the side you can be undercover for is locked in the tutorial. Only if you spoke with Calvin/Marchand in the tutorial can you call them to get the "undercover" options in a mission, regardless of your current "public" alignment. 

[Apogee]

Nothing has changed in the coding as far as I know.  The problem the OP has is with trying to talk to a contact (Dr. Hetzfeld).  Hetzfeld is a Loyalist Power contact and requires the player to be Loyalist in order to get the missions.  Regardless of what side you started on in the tutorial, your current displayed side must be Loyalist in order to get missions from Hetzfeld (or any other Loyalist Power contacts).

[Frozen Burn]

6 hours ago, NoRA said:

Ok, to give more information, that toon started Loyalist, and switched to Resistance in the arc ahainst Mother Mayhem. I THEN did some missions on the loyalist side to try being an "undercover" Resistance agent working for Loyalist contacts. I THEN got the mission to go meet Dr. Hetzfeld, completed it, and nothing happened. I don't remember who sent me to meet him, but I DO remember him not showing up in my active contents. I was confused and decided to test it a bit more before posting this here as repeatable.

 

If started your Praetoria experience as Loyalist, and then switch to Resistance, then you cannot do any "undercover" work for the Resistance while running Loyalist missions - you will never ever get the message to call Calvin Scott.  You will only ever be able to do "undercover" work for Marchand while running Resistance arcs.  

 

....and vice versa - if you start as Resistance, and switch to Loyalist, you will only ever be able to do "undercover" work for Calvin Scott while running Loyalist arcs.  

 

Switching back and forth multiple times doesn't impact this - it is all based on your original alignment that you started your Praetorian experience with.

 

Additionally, If I understand correctly, you were Loyalist when you got the mission to talk to Dr. Hetzfeld (Loyalist Power arc contact).  But before you did, you switched to Resistance, but still had the mission to speak to Dr. H.  You spoke to him and cleared the mission, but because you are Resistance and he is Loyalist Power, he will not give you any missions.  

 

Here's a chart showing the arcs you can access with your alignment:

 

Alignment	Crusader	Warden	Responsibility	Power
Loyalist		X	X	X
Resistance	X	X	X

 

I hope this helps clarify things better for you.

[NoRA]

23 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

I hope this helps clarify things better for you.

 

Thanks, It doesn't because I THINK you got something wrong. I got the mission to go talk to him, and IMMEDIATELY did that, already being Resistance, I think. It was more than a week ago, and this whole thing was AFTER my brain damage, so I MIGHT be remembering things slightly wrong? Anyway, I think you're mostly right about this, but I also think I was given the mission to go talk to him and he pretty much immediately went "Science! For me, though, not for you."

[Frozen Burn]

21 minutes ago, NoRA said:

 

Thanks, It doesn't because I THINK you got something wrong. I got the mission to go talk to him, and IMMEDIATELY did that, already being Resistance, I think. It was more than a week ago, and this whole thing was AFTER my brain damage, so I MIGHT be remembering things slightly wrong? Anyway, I think you're mostly right about this, but I also think I was given the mission to go talk to him and he pretty much immediately went "Science! For me, though, not for you."

 

Well, in any case... because you were Resistance, that is why he would not talk to you more and give you missions, despite your introduction. 

 

So back to your OP, it's not a bug that he wouldn't talk to you even though you started as Loyalist... it's all a matter of your current alignment.  You were Resistance at the time, so he would not give you missions - which is working as it is supposed to.