-Res procs

[Mezegis]

I've seen in a lot of builds, people adding -Res procs to various powers.  I get the concept, but with how fast groups often blitz through enemies, is this something that has an appreciable impact, or is it there for when you run into AV/GMs and fights last longer than 10 seconds?  How much do these procs add to team damage?  MIDS doesnt show how long the -res lasts for, can it stack across multiple powers?

Just trying to understand the mindset for going for -res over either a chance for X damage proc, or deeper into a set, which often gives resistances, which we like.

Thanks!

[Uun]

The -res lasts for 10 seconds. It doesn't stack from the same proc (i.e., Achilles' Heel from the same or different casters won't stack), but it can stack from different procs (i.e., Achilles' Heel can stack with Annihilation). I feel like @Ston has run tests on the effect of -res procs on ST dps, but I'm not aware of any testing on team damage. I will often slot one in an AoE if I have a spare slot. In theory this should improve team damage, but I don't think the magnitude is significant.

[Sanguinesun]

8 hours ago, Uun said:

The -res lasts for 10 seconds. It doesn't stack from the same proc (i.e., Achilles' Heel from the same or different casters won't stack), but it can stack from different procs (i.e., Achilles' Heel can stack with Annihilation). I feel like @Ston has run tests on the effect of -res procs on ST dps, but I'm not aware of any testing on team damage. I will often slot one in an AoE if I have a spare slot. In theory this should improve team damage, but I don't think the magnitude is significant.

 

Its also important to point out that if there are instances where the proc didnt occur from one power on a mob, but you also had it in another power, that you could get it a chance to proc from that to the mob but once applied to the mob it wont stack like Uun iterated.

 

However putting them in multiple powers likely is not going to be overall efficient for a build where putting other enhancements in it for bonuses or even damage procs would be better off for the entirety of the build.

9 hours ago, Mezegis said:

I've seen in a lot of builds, people adding -Res procs to various powers.  I get the concept, but with how fast groups often blitz through enemies, is this something that has an appreciable impact, or is it there for when you run into AV/GMs and fights last longer than 10 seconds?  How much do these procs add to team damage?  MIDS doesnt show how long the -res lasts for, can it stack across multiple powers?

Just trying to understand the mindset for going for -res over either a chance for X damage proc, or deeper into a set, which often gives resistances, which we like.

Thanks!

 

I would speculate that many favor having at least one some where in their build in a power that can hit multiple targets at once vs a single target consideration, per your concerns with teams and how fast they move through missions.  It may not be a significant impact overall per se in some cases based on kill speeds but it can contribute.   But as I iterated above, its not something to over slot with on multiple powers where there's benefice to use other enhancements more.

 

Builds are puzzles you piece together for your specific play goals though so everything is qualified on that alone.

Edited June 5 by Sanguinesun

[Sancerre]

9 hours ago, Mezegis said:

I've seen in a lot of builds, people adding -Res procs to various powers.  I get the concept, but with how fast groups often blitz through enemies, is this something that has an appreciable impact, or is it there for when you run into AV/GMs and fights last longer than 10 seconds?  How much do these procs add to team damage?  MIDS doesnt show how long the -res lasts for, can it stack across multiple powers?

Just trying to understand the mindset for going for -res over either a chance for X damage proc, or deeper into a set, which often gives resistances, which we like.

Thanks!

 

the reason is actually all the same that you outlined.  with how fast groups blitz through enemies, what difference does another damage proc make?  if you stick with the group, it doesnt matter much what you have slotted.  however, if you decide to splinter from the group or just run solo, these -res procs are more valuable and should help clear faster than a single damage proc.

 

i would note though... no need to go overboard.  do 1 of each only where it makes sense.  some powersets, it just doesnt make sense.

[Mezegis]

Interesting... I was looking at an older SR/FM build and they had 3-4 Achilles and an annihilation and it was just surprising and made me wonder what was going on.  Would one in FSC be best for group res drop?

[ZemX]

If you are primarily teaming, I'd guess it's probably less important to have -res in an AoE than an ST attack.  The first things to drop on a fast moving team are the minions, then the LTs, then the bosses.  Put a few -res in ST attacks, then walk over to smack the boss around a few times first thing.  The debuff will help the team drop them a little faster and avoid having them linger around after the AoE salvos have 3x overkilled the minions.

[Sovera]

On 6/5/2024 at 12:44 PM, Mezegis said:

I've seen in a lot of builds, people adding -Res procs to various powers.  I get the concept, but with how fast groups often blitz through enemies, is this something that has an appreciable impact, or is it there for when you run into AV/GMs and fights last longer than 10 seconds?  How much do these procs add to team damage?  MIDS doesnt show how long the -res lasts for, can it stack across multiple powers?

Just trying to understand the mindset for going for -res over either a chance for X damage proc, or deeper into a set, which often gives resistances, which we like.

Thanks!

 

I've tested the -res procs extensively at some point and what I could see was that they had no impact on the times in clearing a mission. It took as long with them as with them replaced by damage procs.

 

For single target the story is different and they can knock a large chunk of time required to defeat something... if that something lasts for 2-3 minutes to defeat, and if that something is +0 or +1. The higher the level the less effect it has and the shorter the time it takes to defeat the less the improvement is.

 

At the time I used pylons as they were the standard and it turns out if was the pylon who was/is responsible for the prevalence of -res procs as any build that could fit in two different -res procs had about a 25% damage boost improvement.

 

What about a non +0 enemy like the pylon is? Then the same -res procs turned into a roughly 5% damage boost.

 

So if the -res procs make no difference in mission clearing times, are big improvements against +0/+1 enemies, AND are better than damage procs against sturdy enemies then sticking to -res procs should be the way.

 

The only downside is that if someone else in the team has the same -res procs slotted then they don't stack, but, to be fair, if in a team it doesn't matter. Things are dying in seconds, AVs lasts 30 seconds, etc.

 

 

 

So though I rail/railed against -res procs they are a (small) improvement over damage procs in ST. Just not the huge (25%) boost that people think that they are because all their testing is done against +0 pylons.

[tidge]

My experiences align with what @Sovera wrote, for pretty much every AT I experimented with:

 

14 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

I've tested the -res procs extensively at some point and what I could see was that they had no impact on the times in clearing a mission. It took as long with them as with them replaced by damage procs.

 

There is only one circumstance I found where I could see an improvement in clear times, but it is in opposition to a piece of advice written earlier:

 

On 6/5/2024 at 5:08 PM, Sanguinesun said:

 

However putting them in multiple powers likely is not going to be overall efficient for a build where putting other enhancements in it for bonuses or even damage procs would be better off for the entirety of the build.

 

The circumstance is this: A Robotics Mastermind with multiple power slotted with the Annihilation %-Resistance piece in the MM attacks. Let me spell out a couple of things before I describe what I observed:

• A solo Mastermind with 6 henchmen is sort of like being on a team with "poorly slotted" teammates
• Robotic henchmen don't have great single-target damage, but they can make a lot of attacks in 10 seconds
• The same source of -Resistance will reset (extend) the duration of the effect
• The MM is spamming the AoE attacks (which include the Annihilation piece) against spawns, and eventually against hard single targets.

When these circumstances align, the %-Res does improve the clear times for the solo MM... but I think the biggest effect is that the Henchmen aren't "nuking" spawns like some player ATs will be. The random nature of the %proc, combined with the randomness of which critters in a spawn get hit by both the MM and the henchmen lead to a general improvement in clear times. It also helps against hard targets, but the fight has to drag a bit to be able to observe this (see the comments above about pylon testing)

 

I experimented with trying to use (multiple) "stacking" sources of (different) %-Resistance with the MM and I came to the conclusion that it was actually a waste of a slot. I didn't see any effect on other ATs that changed my mind. The %procs are inherently unreliable and the durations are short. I found it better for Tankers to just take Weaken Resolve, slotted for Accuracy, and if desired to add an Achilles' Heel %-Resistance piece to that. This will give a reliable source of -Resistance, plus a pretty good extra %-Resistance chance to be used against a single target... which will almost certainly be what the Tanker is left facing... assuming the Tanker doesn't sprint off leaving a boss behind for teammates to clean up.

 

There is one more effect that I bring up in discussion of %-Resistance versus %Damage: (Non-AFK) Mission/map clear times are pretty much directly correlated with how many buttons have to be mashed. My play experience has been that for solo play, %damage is better at reducing the number of buttons that need to be mashed than %-Resistance.