Returning player build for Scrapper?

[Prinny25]

Hey I'm having a bit of hard time deciding on a build for Scrapper here's the ideas I have some far
Street justice/regen or Invulnerability 
Claws/reflexes or Ice armor 
Spines/regen
Dual Swords/Reflexes,Regen or Ice armor 

[Errants]

Yes.

[Without_Pause]

Of the list, I would put Claws/sr as a favorite. I don't think I could be convinced to roll Regen these days. I need to try Invul, but my lean is go to Brute or Tanker with it. While decent, my opinion on Ice for a Scrapper is still being tested out. SR only gets better and going T4 with Incarnates is cheat mode.

 

This is by no means a final build as Conserve Power feels more useful while leveling and not really needed once you hit end game although there are situations where you might need a little help with end. As in specific situations. This build honestly has a number of safety valves for when 'it' hits the fan. It's practically unkillable on a team doing normalish stuff. I haven't kicked enough tires to really stress test it, but it plays great on +4x8 teams from what I have seen. There's little reason it can't solo sanely at +3x8 on a lot of maps. Honestly, as with a number of builds, I'm on teams to have an audience. 😄I also need to push this higher in my ranking of Top 10 level 50s. Wait, it isn't even on there. *ahem*

 

Incarnates of note are Musculature Core, Reactive Core, Rebirth Radial, and Melee Core. Lore and Judgement are whatever. 

 

 

 

 

Without Hesitation - Scrapper (Claws - Super Reflexes).mbd

Edited October 22 by Without_Pause
Added newer version of the build.

[Thraxen]

Db/sr is a ton of fun. I have a claws/sr as well but I prefer claws/rad.  I wouldn’t touch regen. I always go assault hybrid on scraps. Rebirth comes in handy but you’ll use it to heal teammates more than yourself, which is fine. 

[PyroBeetle]

I have a nice MA/SR scrapper who leans into the bonus crit mechanic from Eagle's Claw hard, which allows for a seamless, hastenless single target attack chain which includes a snipe, and a fast AoE chain. SR might feel flimsy to start, but once you get it slotted, it is a real beast. The new psi Epic pool with Harmonic Mind keeps your Blue bar tolerable even with the endless attack chain loops, and the Psi Snipe is useful on certain encounters.

[Culach]

Going to chime in with Regen not being as worth it anymore.

 

When I started in Issue 3, back in the day, Regen was a set that, if you survived the Alpha Strike, you were unbeatable. Then came a series of nerfs that neutered the powerset to its current levels.

 

Today, when I want a regen style character, I tend to choose Willpower, as it covers almost all of the same bases, has a  similar feel to what Regen was originally, and the non-regen portions can be described as getting used to pain and learning to not get hit, because it takes energy to recover. The way I see it, even Deadpool and Wolverine, the 2 primary regen icons, wear armor and try not to get hit because it sucks. They tank damage when they have to, not because they want to.

 

But that is just my opinion.

[Without_Pause]

On 7/20/2024 at 1:38 AM, Without_Pause said:

This is by no means a final build as Conserve Power feels more useful while leveling and not really needed once you hit end game although there are situations where you might need a little help with end. As in specific situations.

Update, if anyone wants to use the build, one slot CP and move the slot to RoP with it being a Gladiator's Armor: Resistance. This will bump Res with RoP on to be:

 

S/L: 73%

E/N: 49.3%

F/C: 33.5%

T/P: 47.8

 

Add in the Scaling Res IO and SR's own scaling Res and yeah, that should cover it when Melee Incarnate is recharging. 

 

I may or may not do other changing of slots, but I feel like this is really close to being done.

[Doomguide2005]

 

On 7/20/2024 at 6:02 AM, Thraxen said:

Rebirth comes in handy but you’ll use it to heal teammates more than yourself, which is fine. 

Hehe quoted for truth.  Often find myself watching after a Shadow Cyst explodes or on the steps for teammates going colorful.

 

https://api.midsreborn.com/legacy/download?uc=1777&c=761&a=1522&f=HEX&dc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

 

Figure I could add my Main's build, a Claws/SR/Body scrapper.

Edited August 29 by Doomguide2005
Added build

[venetiasilver]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:42 PM, Culach said:

Going to chime in with Regen not being as worth it anymore.

 

When I started in Issue 3, back in the day, Regen was a set that, if you survived the Alpha Strike, you were unbeatable. Then came a series of nerfs that neutered the powerset to its current levels.

 

Today, when I want a regen style character, I tend to choose Willpower, as it covers almost all of the same bases, has a  similar feel to what Regen was originally, and the non-regen portions can be described as getting used to pain and learning to not get hit, because it takes energy to recover. The way I see it, even Deadpool and Wolverine, the 2 primary regen icons, wear armor and try not to get hit because it sucks. They tank damage when they have to, not because they want to.

 

But that is just my opinion.

It is a bizarre problem, For if Regen's HP/S eclipses the Enemy DP/s even at a margin of .01 then its basically an unkillable armor set. Yet the allowance for the clicky style and heals and shields Bio is given, and even to an extent Radiation Armor it feels that Regen is needlessly left in "Pre CoV Jail" because no single developer wants to risk such a solid set. 

[SomeGuy]

FFS do NOT do regen. All the best players in the game stay far away from regen for a reason. It adds nothing offensively and it is really bad at the staying alive thing.

 

Any of the other secondaries are fine. I have my preferences for sure, but there is no "bad" secondary (unless it's melee regen).

 

You are going to see people try to defend it with #s and etc. but I suspect they also have brand loyalty to things (like nintendo vs sega or ford vs chevy or something). There is also the nostalgia factor for when regen actually was good (really fricking overpowered). The game had "Issue" updates still in the single digits then.

 

Look, if you are a masochist and enjoy being handicapped all the time and it's your idea of fun, sure, go regen. But if you want to play a set that is also good in combat stay away from it.

[Troo]

On 7/19/2024 at 5:23 PM, Prinny25 said:

Hey I'm having a bit of hard time deciding on a build for Scrapper here's the ideas I have some far
Street justice/regen or Invulnerability 
Claws/reflexes or Ice armor 
Spines/regen
Dual Swords/Reflexes,Regen or Ice armor 

 

I'd need some more information. Playstyle and expectations can vary.

Examples: Do you only solo, plan on teaming, or a bit of both? Do you want straight forward or like combo mechanics? Is there a theme you are shooting for?

Sans additional information, go Claws/Super Reflexes

 

 

On 7/20/2024 at 3:02 AM, Thraxen said:

I wouldn’t touch regen.

On 8/14/2024 at 5:42 PM, Culach said:

Going to chime in with Regen not being as worth it anymore.

2 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

All the best players in the game stay far away from regen for a reason.

wimps

 

"all-the-best-players".. Oooo a double absolute statement. Doubling down doesn't make it troo.

 

All sets are playable. Tactics may differ and some sets can be easier than others at different points or in different situations.  Try 'em all and your character(s) may find you. 

 

[Without_Pause]

I soloed a Claws/regen on Live using common IOs. Regen is fine. It just lacks when you want to start pushing the envelope. You can jam all sort of things into it to make it sturdier. You will not be able to get past it having no way to counter debuffs outside of using Destiny. 

[SomeGuy]

19 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Regen is fine.

 

 

This statement is true! As long as you don't enter combat.

 

My first 50 was a claws/regen on SOs. *fist bump* to my fellow claws/regen brethren.

 

More on point to what OP asked:

 

I'm partial to Claws and DB so, keep that in mind.

 

Claws actually embarrasses spines in the AOE department. Spin is that good. ST damage? No contest. Claws wins.

 

DB isn't amazing at AOE but is better at ST DPS then claws. Claws doesn't really have any frontloaded damage. Be aware of that if you want to see huge numbers. DB on the other hand...tick tick BOOM. It pecks away at the HP bar and then BOOM. Sweeping Strikes hits hard and boy howdy if it crits. Claws is VERY light on end use. DB...can suck you dry. And not in a fun way, assuming you run the best ST chain with it. 

 

SR is a great secondary for both of those. My second foray into learning IOs was a DB/SR. That was...eye opening as all get out. Not getting hit as melee was an epiphany. Honestly? With those three secondaries I would personally lean X/SR. I have...opinions regen. And they aren't good. Ice Armor? It's ok. Never really impressed me. Didn't stand out negative or positive. SR is an oldy goldy. It has some really strong pros. Big con is lack of self heal, but that can be worked around. I'd personally use it more if it had a taunt aura, but that's opinion.

[Without_Pause]

I retired my Claws/cold Scrapper. I wanted to run Claws with a damage aura. /cold has the taunt aura. I got it to 30 or so, and it just wasn't on par with other sets. It feels overwhelmingly reliant on it's T9 power. I'm sure adding in more levels and Incarnates makes it solid. I just stopped wanting to put in the effort.

 

The thing for me with Claws is it adds so much mitigation versus DB. The inexcusable addition of ranged attacks puts it over the top for me. 

[Story Archer]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:23 PM, Prinny25 said:

Hey I'm having a bit of hard time deciding on a build for Scrapper here's the ideas I have some far
Street justice/regen or Invulnerability 
Claws/reflexes or Ice armor 
Spines/regen
Dual Swords/Reflexes,Regen or Ice armor 

Regen isn't what it once was.

 

My Dual Blades/Ninjitsu Scrapper is by far the most fun I've had playing a melee toon. It's a defensive set like SR - but in exchange for a (fair) bit of your DDR, you get higher resistances and a whole host of really cool toys to play with, including a self +Heal, a self +End, and built-in stealth ability. Can't recommend it enough - final build is linked below, but a more levelling friendly build can be posted too if you decide you're interested.

 

[Veil of Blades].mbd

 

The numbers below are without Incarnates or any temporary powers. Gonna be hard-pressed to find better defensive numbers on a Scrapper, and this doesn't include a nice little heal that comes up every 20 seconds or so.

 

 

 

Edited October 31 by Story Archer

[Culach]

On 10/20/2024 at 5:39 PM, Troo said:

 

I'd need some more information. Playstyle and expectations can vary.

Examples: Do you only solo, plan on teaming, or a bit of both? Do you want straight forward or like combo mechanics? Is there a theme you are shooting for?

Sans additional information, go Claws/Super Reflexes

 

 

wimps

 

"all-the-best-players".. Oooo a double absolute statement. Doubling down doesn't make it troo.

 

All sets are playable. Tactics may differ and some sets can be easier than others at different points or in different situations.  Try 'em all and your character(s) may find you. 

 

 

Note that I said "not as worth it anymore", not that it was unplayable. That "as" is a big qualifier.

 

It is still playable, as you and others have pointed out, I just don't feel like it is as worth it as other sets. That said, if you want to play the set, go ahead, I will never tell someone not to.

 

For clarification: My main on live WAS a BS/Regen that I took to 50 and into the Incarnate levels, on a couple of servers, even after the nerfs. 

 

To my knowledge, there are no unplayable sets or combinations, just ones that are more difficult to play for the individual. What I mean by that is that a set I might find fun and meets my standards, you may not feel the same way about, and vice versa. There are sets I don't play because I don't find them fun, and others I go back to because they are. There are also combos that have made sets I didn't like fun, even when I hated them with other sets. Context matters.

[venetiasilver]

When comparing the 4 original armors for Scrapper.
Arcanaville's Thesis of the 4 sets; Invuln / SR / Regen / Dark Armor still is a bulky read,
The overall results of reading through that is a firm understanding of the total system of Damage Mitigation.

The one core objective nature is Regen can handle any Archvillain without collapsing; The same cannot be said for Super Reflexes.
Invuln shines better than SR when handling a variety of enemies, but it does fail to Cimeroran's -Defense Debuff.
Dark Armor is amazing in pack to pack fights, but when you get down to one enemy you have to play careful.

Tentatively, Regen is fine and pulls ahead of Super Reflexes in the Time Clock, Though Invuln is easier to pilot and Super Reflexes allows easier mitigation of Alpha Strikes.

[Maelwys]

Regen providing almost exclusively "Flat" damage mitigation to the others "Scaling" is very old hat. Back whenever Arcanaville wrote that we didn't have much in the way of Regeneration and Maximum HP debuffs flying around.

 

Some of the more recently designed tough encounters will simply eat them for breakfast.

 

Performance I'd take a well-IOed out INV or SR over a well-IOed out Regen any day of the week, let alone a Dark Armor (which only ever really lacked Knockback Protection and a smidge of Energy Resistance) or one of the more modern powersets.

 

Regen is passable, sure. And I have a lot of rose tinted nostalgia for it because a Regen Scrapper was the very first CoH toon I ever played. But it still takes nearly an entire powerset to provide less than what a well built Bio Armor toon gets with a single button click.

[venetiasilver]

21 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Regen providing almost exclusively "Flat" damage mitigation to the others "Scaling" is very old hat. Back whenever Arcanaville wrote that we didn't have much in the way of Regeneration and Maximum HP debuffs flying around.

 

Some of the more recently designed tough encounters will simply eat them for breakfast.

 

Performance I'd take a well-IOed out INV or SR over a well-IOed out Regen any day of the week, let alone a Dark Armor (which only ever really lacked Knockback Protection and a smidge of Energy Resistance) or one of the more modern powersets.

 

Regen is passable, sure. And I have a lot of rose tinted nostalgia for it because a Regen Scrapper was the very first CoH toon I ever played. But it still takes nearly an entire powerset to provide less than what a well built Bio Armor toon gets with a single button click.

I will concede that the newer content portions post Dark Astoria and the Incarnate Trials have basically pushed an entire armorset out of the game in terms of competitive features. It is due for updating that I hope can retain the core features without going into the old "Its unkillable at X condition" No game is ever a game without a sense of risk. So I hope they manage to do an interesting dynamic playstyle with Regeneration. 

[Without_Pause]

It would also be interesting to know what state Regen was in at the time of analysis. Linea's done a bunch of work making missions built to challenge builds. They never ranked Regen, but I'm not surprised. I did one of the missions at the lowest setting and it is a debuff hell. Imagine taking a Regen and facing mobs with -End and -Recharge. Note, they have rankings for Brutes and Tankers. 

 

 

[Maelwys]

4 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

It would also be interesting to know what state Regen was in at the time of analysis. 

I'm pretty sure this was back in issue 7; so City of Villains was still brand new and the closest thing we had to "challenging content" was fighting enemies with unusual damage types (particularly Toxic or Psychic) like Arachnos, and everyone avoided Carnies and Malta like the plague. I seem to recall Regens were particularly good versus all of those enemy types (except sappers) plus the dreaded Rularuu eyeballs and DE quartzes. Oh, and the inherent regeneration rate of AVs and GMs was still negligible so you could kill them with Brawl given sufficient time.

 

Inventions were not even a glint in the Dev's eyes...

 

https://forumarchive.cityofheroes.dev/topic/115310?page_no=1

[venetiasilver]

The overall worst thing for Invuln as an Armor Set is it is very backloaded; I'd almost want to swap Dull Pain and Invincibility's position, It takes until around level 35 for it to feel sturdy enough.
It's an amazing set but feels rough leveling with it. 
Willpower feels a bit smoother of a curve, Radiation is pretty solid

My personal favorite Armorsets to play with have even curves as opposed to everything being two powers like Invuln's +Def powers coming in at the tail end.
SR and Fiery Aura are neat.

[Linea]

On 10/22/2024 at 10:44 PM, Without_Pause said:

... never ranked Regen, but I'm not surprised. I did one of the missions at the lowest setting and it is a debuff hell. ...

I took a multi-billion influence build into a +4x8 ITF for comparison testing.   It's the hardest to drive.  It requires the most strategy and tactics.  It requires the most attention to detail.  ... etc and so on.   But it CAN be done.  It's been done multiple times by multiple builds and characters.  

 

HOWEVER, willpower can do it with 2/3 the effort and 2/3 the investment, and Bio can do it with 1/3 the effort and 1/3 the investment.   (Approximately)

 

As an additional note, it's my opinion that regen should at least be 95% immune to regen debuffs, ... and probably partially immune to recharge debuffs but that part is less thematic and more mechanic.s 

[venetiasilver]

5 hours ago, Linea said:

I took a multi-billion influence build into a +4x8 ITF for comparison testing.   It's the hardest to drive.  It requires the most strategy and tactics.  It requires the most attention to detail.  ... etc and so on.   But it CAN be done.  It's been done multiple times by multiple builds and characters.  

 

HOWEVER, willpower can do it with 2/3 the effort and 2/3 the investment, and Bio can do it with 1/3 the effort and 1/3 the investment.   (Approximately)

 

As an additional note, it's my opinion that regen should at least be 95% immune to regen debuffs, ... and probably partially immune to recharge debuffs but that part is less thematic and more mechanic.s 

There's so many drawbacks to Regeneration, however it is the best one for duels against AV's.
Take any level 19 Scrapper against the Story Arc Dr. Vahzilok as an AV, the rule.
Only 1 Green Inspiration allowed, no Reds/Purps/Oranges.

See how far you can go.

I did it with a Valkyrie homage, Broadsword / Regen. Classic Issue 1-4 stuff, and it was the most intense fight I've had, and I can finally appreciate Werner's Dedication to that 8 hour Nemesis AV fight.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, venetiasilver said:

There's so many drawbacks to Regeneration, however it is the best one for duels against AV's.
Take any level 19 Scrapper against the Story Arc Dr. Vahzilok as an AV, the rule.
Only 1 Green Inspiration allowed, no Reds/Purps/Oranges.

See how far you can go.

I did it with a Valkyrie homage, Broadsword / Regen. Classic Issue 1-4 stuff, and it was the most intense fight I've had, and I can finally appreciate Werner's Dedication to that 8 hour Nemesis AV fight.

Why level 19?