Iintel 13th and 14th gen CPU (AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE!)

[Hyperstrike]

Recently enthusiast forums have been tracking a problem specific to INTEL based CPUs.  The most severe BURNING OUT A CHIP PERMANENTLY.

 

In SOME cases people are able to restore function by lowering voltage and other things.  But these methods ARE TEMPORARY FIXES.

Once a chip begins presenting the behavior, there is NO SOLUTION.

It seems to be a microcode error that allows an uncontrolled/badly controlled state.

At some point there will be microcode updates on newer chips that will stop this abnormal behavior.  But it is out several weeks/months in the future.  And it will NOT repair already affected chips.  SO you're kinda screwed with the hardware you have now.  Though one MAY be eligible for RMA replacement (in time).

DO NOT DEPEND ON THIS!  And if you are buying RIGHT NOW, DO NOT even purchase new!  Not even at slashed clearance "deal" prices.  There is NOTHING that makes it a deal.  You may as well bring the chip home, and toss it into a fire.  (NOT A JOKE.)

If you're looking to get yourself a new system , look at AMD.  The Ryzen 7000 series is fine.

The Ryzen 9000 has been delayed until August (if you gotta have the latest and greatest) because the scare the Intel problem tossed into the market and additional testing is being done to make SURE their parts are solid.


 

[Glacier Peak]

Intel 8700k has been good to me for 6 years now - no point in downgrading to a dumpster fire like the 13th or 14th gen Intel.

[Hyperstrike]

6 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Intel 8700k has been good to me for 6 years now - no point in downgrading to a dumpster fire like the 13th or 14th gen Intel.

Not saying that if you have 7th-12th gen CPU, you should trash it all and buy NEWNEWNEWNEWNEW of the most expensive thing available.  Something like your 8000 series Intel chip is fine.

Just saying that 13th and 14th gen stuff are ALMOST as useful as self-trepanation to get smarter, or using a saws-all to lose weight.

[Mr. Apocalypse]

I work  @ Intel servicing equipment for both the ATTD and SPPD groups. ATTD is Failure analysis for the chips and SPPD is the packaging group Process development. The problems with the 13 and 14 gen chips are both in the silicon and in the packaging process. Without specifically being told due to Intelectual property restrictions, Its not hard to gather from the types of samples being run on a daily basis.

 

These CPU's issues are the result of years of cutting R&D work forces and replacing the engineers with newer, younger and cheaper employees. (most of the engineers they let go around 2015, ended up at AMD and Nvidia) all of this happend because they had a new CEO named Bob Swan, he was  bean counter and he fumbled badly after he was made CEO after the sudden resignation of Brian Krzanich.  At least the new CEO is an engineer, but the damage was already done.

 

I started there in 2014 and it has been a steady decline. I have had an intel employee offer to by me a 14 gen with his 50% discount and I declined.   It is also really bad when you hear from an Intel employee theat they have an AMD gaming rig, because he knows that even with a 50% discount it's not worth the trouble to build with one.

 

OH how the Mighty have fallen

 

I am running a i9-9900k, but my next will definitely be an AMD.

 

edit again:

 

I looked up some stuff, and I was a little fuzzy on the Dates with the CEOs.  Bob Swan was CFO at the time when all the Layoffs and firings happened, then took over for  Brian Krzanich in 2018 as CEO

Edited July 27 by Mr. Apocalypse
forgot some info about they whys it has happened

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

I work  @ Intel servicing equipment for both the ATTD and SPPD groups. ATTD is Failure analysis for the chips and SPPD is the packaging group Process development. The problems with the 13 and 14 gen chips are both in the silicon and in the packaging process. Without specifically being told due to Intelectual property restrictions, Its not hard to gather from the types of samples being run on a daily basis.

 

These CPU's issues are the result of years of cutting R&D work forces and replacing the engineers with newer, younger and cheaper employees. (most of the engineers they let go around 2015, ended up at AMD and Nvidia) all of this happend because they had a new CEO named Bob Swan, he was  bean counter and he fumbled badly after he was made CEO after the sudden resignation of Brian Krzanich.  At least the new CEO is an engineer, but the damage was already done.

 

I started there in 2014 and it has been a steady decline. I have had an intel employee offer to by me a 14 gen with his 50% discount and I declined.   It is also really bad when you hear from an Intel employee theat they have an AMD gaming rig, because he knows that even with a 50% discount it's not worth the trouble to build with one.

 

OH how the Mighty have fallen

 

I am running a i9-9900k, but my next will definitely be an AMD.

 

edit again:

 

I looked up some stuff, and I was a little fuzzy on the Dates with the CEOs.  Bob Swan was CFO at the time when all the Layoffs and firings happened, then took over for  Brian Krzanich in 2018 as CEO

Here's hoping that R&D resumes on consumer grade R&D as well as being continued on their professional grade stuff.

While I'm a big AMD booster.  Had both first-gen A64 and A64x2 units and LOVED THEM in the wayback times....

Only reason I had Intel last time was that my boss turned over the guts of a server to me, complete with SAS drives...

[Mr. Apocalypse]

9 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Here's hoping that R&D resumes on consumer grade R&D as well as being continued on their professional grade stuff.

While I'm a big AMD booster.  Had both first-gen A64 and A64x2 units and LOVED THEM in the wayback times....

Only reason I had Intel last time was that my boss turned over the guts of a server to me, complete with SAS drives...

They are hard at work and are trying to recover, But the difference is the engineering teams they have VS what they had.

 

There is this unteachable knowledge, that comes with 30 years or more experience, that can only be designed into the product, by those that have been there and done that.  Right now what you have is a mix of those older engineers, butting heads with new engineers that are constantly trying "new things" that have already been done before and were abandoned for obvious reasons.  They are really pushing and trying to get back those very experienced engineers onto their teams, but the cost high, and Intel is weak financially now.

 

The real cost aside from hiring back more experienced engineers, is the people that I work for on the back end of R&D and FA. They are being given packages to leave. Which translates into real problems don't get identified by skilled technicians during the FA process due to increases in lost samples. In many cases losing a sample during FA means that issue will never again be seen, possibly until it shows up en-masse on the final product. It also deprives the new engineers from seeing how their design does not translate from paper to silicon.

 

They are also diversifying into being a foundry to keep up with income flow, but that is very expensive, and obviously fab development, and construction take a lot of time and money away from the other business.   I predict that Intel, will never be the top chip maker again, like they were in the 90's with only their products, and will be making more of other companies product than their own.

 

Intel has its sights firmly set on taking a bite out of TSMC's market share in the foundry market.  Who really knows what it means for the consumer market, likely more low end chips destined to go in cheaply made inferior products, so they can fluff their bank accounts. While the real focus will be be high dollar silicon production for AI, and future technologies, that they can charge very high prices for within the corporate sector.

 

I also think the name "INTEL" wont be on the signs of the foundries within 10 years, and will be called something else while the name will remain on their R&D business.  As a whole, I dont think intel hold  1/10th of their current market share. I cold be wrong, but I have been in the industry for over 30 years and have seen a lot of big players go away, not with a bang, but whimper.

 

Only Time will tell,

[SeraphimKensai]

I thought I had read the issue was specific to 13th/14th gen i9's. I hadn't seen any mention of i7's. I could be wrong though.

[Mr. Apocalypse]

46 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I thought I had read the issue was specific to 13th/14th gen i9's. I hadn't seen any mention of i7's. I could be wrong though.

Nope it is in all of them. The issues were 1st spotted in the I9's because of their usage in higher profile applications, but the issue that is causing the problem is in all versions of the 13th and 14th gen silicon all the way down to the i3 chips.

 

There are other issues also with how all chips are mounted to the packaging going back to 12th gen and possibly further back into older generations, but not being seen as much because of the more robust silicon structures in the older gen chips and the related interface between the chiplets and the packaging.  

 

Also one thing that is a must if you have a Intel processor, if the CPU package is not a square you need to replace the hold down on your mother board with a contact frame.  The rectangle packaging flexes causing poor contact between the heat spreader and the chips beneath. Replacing the stock hold down clamp with a contact spreader will lower the temps by up to 10-15C and prolong the life of the CPU, but wont correct the inherent silicon issues. Only the voltage profiles they now recommend will help to prolong the life due to the silicon problems. Ultimately there is about a 75% chance all 13th and 14th gen chips will fail within 24 months of first use, and that is pretty poor IMO.

 

*** note***

Take any of what I have stated with a grain of salt,  and don't base anything on my words alone. I could be wrong on certain details, and don't want to be sued for libel. But what I have said is general consensus amongst people I speak with daily.

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

Nope it is in all of them. The issues were 1st spotted in the I9's because of their usage in higher profile applications, but the issue that is causing the problem is in all versions of the 13th and 14th gen silicon all the way down to the i3 chips.

 

There are other issues also with how all chips are mounted to the packaging going back to 12th gen and possibly further back into older generations, but not being seen as much because of the more robust silicon structures in the older gen chips and the related interface between the chiplets and the packaging.  

 

Also one thing that is a must if you have a Intel processor, if the CPU package is not a square you need to replace the hold down on your mother board with a contact frame.  The rectangle packaging flexes causing poor contact between the heat spreader and the chips beneath. Replacing the stock hold down clamp with a contact spreader will lower the temps by up to 10-15C and prolong the life of the CPU, but wont correct the inherent silicon issues. Only the voltage profiles they now recommend will help to prolong the life due to the silicon problems. Ultimately there is about a 75% chance all 13th and 14th gen chips will fail within 24 months of first use, and that is pretty poor IMO.

 

*** note***

Take any of what I have stated with a grain of salt,  and don't base anything on my words alone. I could be wrong on certain details, and don't want to be sued for libel. But what I have said is general consensus amongst people I speak with daily.

Links pls.

I have yet to see any reliable information that it's killing 10th-12th generation chips

 

[Mr. Apocalypse]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Links pls.

I have yet to see any reliable information that it's killing 10th-12th generation chips

 

that is not what I said.

 

I noted that there are packaging related issues as well,  that go back to the 12th gen, many of these processes have not changed going into the 13th and 14th gen chips so there is buzz within the engineers that this may also be a contributing factor in some of the problems. I don't get my info from links on the web, I get it from small talk in the labs when I am around different engineers that come and go, and from the techs that are doing the Lamella prep.

[WanderingAries]

On 7/26/2024 at 8:27 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Intel 8700k has been good to me for 6 years now - no point in downgrading to a dumpster fire like the 13th or 14th gen Intel.

 

*carefully pets the 3770k that's somehow running Win11* <.<  >.>  <.<

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm sitting on a 10th i9 in my 4 year old machine ATM. I almost bought a new machine a couple months ago before hearing about Intel's issues. I only held off because I figured Nvidia is going to be releasing the 5000 series probably around Christmas for a 4th quarter stock run, so I might as well wait if I'm going to drop a couple grand.

[SeraphimKensai]

Just saw this article about the Intel chips...

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-cpu-instability-crashing-bug-includes-65w-and-higher-skus-intel-says-damage-is-irreversible-no-planned-recall

[Mr. Apocalypse]

3 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Just saw this article about the Intel chips...

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-cpu-instability-crashing-bug-includes-65w-and-higher-skus-intel-says-damage-is-irreversible-no-planned-recall

My major issue with intel, from a semi-insider perspective, is they don't care anymore about the quality of the product. and they really haven't since the engineer purge  between 2015 and now.

 

lets also not forget the latest side channel vulnerability in the 13/14th chips, there was vulnerabilities with 11th gen, that required a performance hitting uefi software patch to mitigate. 

 

Until Intel, starts to care about the product more than the profit again, they wont se a nickle from me.  I will buy AMD.  I'm not having any illusions that AMD is any better, but ignorance is bliss in this situation.

 

I see what I see everyday when I go into work, and the focus has been lost and the internal culture has been destroyed. They are no longer hiring based upon a "we want the best", but rather DEI has taken over the hiring process.  While, at the same time They are pouring exorbitant amounts of money into the foundry business, and cutting experienced manpower.  Three engineers that I know personally took packages to leave last week, they were all 25+ years with Intel.  There were 100s more in other groups throughout the company that were offered packages to leave as well.

 

Imagine a company struggling to make good product, offering their best up to 2 years of salary, and 1 years of medical coverage to go away, so that they can turn around and replace them with someone who just graduated college, or just immigrated from another country and will do the same work for half the money.  This is what is happening at Intel. It is sad to watch as they destroy themselves from the inside out.

 

 

Intel chip security issues

 

PC world "downfall" vulnerability article

Edited July 29 by Mr. Apocalypse
I forgot to add links

[Mr. Apocalypse]

more bad news, Intel will be having a meeting tomorrow where they are planning to announce a 10% reduction in workforce approximately 10,000 to be layed off.

 

I heard the news from one of my customers, but it was announced yesterday. it is all over the web.

 

Edited August 1 by Mr. Apocalypse

[WanderingAries]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:20 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

more bad news, Intel will be having a meeting tomorrow where they are planning to announce a 10% reduction in workforce approximately 10,000 to be layed off.

 

I heard the news from one of my customers, but it was announced yesterday. it is all over the web.

 

 

*board meeting*

CEO: "How shall we cut costs?"

M1: "We could lay off a bunch of people that are keeping us afloat"

M2: "We could take a salary cut to save jobs and keep up production"

 

*M2 "leaves the building" via the window*

[Mr. Apocalypse]

41 minutes ago, WanderingAries said:

 

*board meeting*

CEO: "How shall we cut costs?"

M1: "We could lay off a bunch of people that are keeping us afloat"

M2: "We could take a salary cut to save jobs and keep up production"

 

*M2 "leaves the building" via the window*

It was a pretty sad day today,  they announce 15% cut in workforce, and that they missed 2nd quarter projections.  stock dropped over 20%