Dark/SS Rageless Tank

[Warboss]

A bit late to the dance, but here are some random thoughts to start with. Use them as you see fit.

 

How bad is the crash? I mean it's annoying, but easily worked around. If damage is your main concern, fire off Sands of Mu. By the time it completes the crash is over. You can also use other temp powers, or take Energy Mastery and get Torrent (slot with KB to KD porc), you won't do much damage during the crash, but you can still keep mobs on the ground (especially if you have Hand Clap). Another option would be to run Assault in place of Rage. Folks messed with this years ago and although not optimum (another End cost, reduced damage (compared to Rage)) it does boost the base damage a bit (10%? on Tanks?), then take Musculature as you Alpha.

 

Based on the previously posted build Dark/SS, I'd find a way to take OP (one slot wonder), then take Electric Fences, to keep mobs from wandering, (Mu Mastery instead of Energy Mastery) as my Epic/Patron.

 

Slot Armors with either Unbreakable Guards or Impervium Armors to help reduce Endurance costs (min 4 each, if looking for just End Rdx then 2 in Minium), and provide other needed set buffs. Since you already have the Titanium Coatings, should be easy to convert to the others. Get both sets of Tanker ATO then go from there. Also check the Tanker forums for other Dark builds. Dark can be difficult to deal with when first playing it (due to the high End costs), but you can make it work. Physical Perfection is over slotted, and I'd slot Dark Regen for Recharge, Damage and End Redx. It's already one of the best self Heals in the game, it really doesn't require healing sets (other than Theft of Essence pro for End). I have a few more thoughts, but not sure what your goal with the build is.

 

Stop by a Tanker Tuesday to get more build advice (and run your Tank with MORE Tanks). Many of us have run Dark/SS and there are various ways to build the sets for game play.

 

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, Warboss said:

How bad is the crash?

 

Look in CoD2 for the details:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_melee.super_strength.rage&at=tanker

 

After the 120s of the Rage buff:

• -25% Endurance
• -20% Defense for 10s
• -9990% Damage for 10s

Hurts for the -End, perhaps the -Def on a Defense Protection Powerset, but the -Damage is brutal.  And 10s is longer than Sands of Mu's cast.

 

It is a manageable crash, but I don't want to manage it.  Yet on Tankers, going Super Strength without Rage limits the Toon.

 

As for the Aprocalypse, don't want to keep derailing this topic, but:

• The Aprocalypse is coming.  I've heard it from the Devs, @Sanguinesun, as @Sovera commented above.  Search for it and you'll find other posts about it.
• No idea when it will come forward.
• It's obvious a complicated rebalance that needs to be done right, perhaps needing other changes in the plumbing and game before it can move forward.
• It's a needed change.  Other fixes cannot be done before the Aprocalypse.
• @tidge, you have a good view of the consequences.  I personally really want you to be in the Closed Beta Testing to make sure all the details are properly adjusted.

Personally, I don't like heavily Proc'ed builds and don't want to bother with them, not even now.  I've got enough work to do on builds, I'd rather not make that worse.

 

 

[Warboss]

I hear ya', but I've played SS with just about every Tanker Primary there is and it's not something that should prevent you from playing it, and subbing temps or Prestige Powers should get you through the crash. I get it if you don't want to go that route, and I can't tell you how to enjoy the game, but maybe another set like Stone Melee or Street Justice would solve the problem.

[Zect]

I have a different perspective on the whole aprocalypse thing. I generally think that you should not let fear of nerfs impact your ability to enjoy powers in the here and now. On the contrary, as it is far better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all, one should enjoy them while they last.

 

I ruthlessly abuse procs in many of my builds. If procs are nerfed, then not only did I enjoy the finite time they were available, but I also did my part in pushing for beneficial balance changes by raising the profile of proc balance - the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all that. if procs are not nerfed, then I continue to enjoy grossly overpowered builds that achieve power levels the game was never designed for. Whoever loses, I win.

 

Edited December 15 by Zect

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Zect said:

... and all that. if procs are not nerfed, then I continue to enjoy grossly overpowered builds that achieve power levels the game was never designed for. Whoever loses, I win.

 

 

I agree with the sentiment of the quoted post, but wanted to remark: Ultimately, I don't think %damage is making builds "grossly overpowered". If we ignore the whole Incarnate System (*1), the game is far more "imbalanced" IMO by enemy critters more-or-less unable to hit or hurt players. Combat with critters is pretty much a zero-sum game, performance between ATs is NOT a zero-sum game.

 

There is no need to roll back to a time before enhancement set bonuses, or before nukes that caused crashes, or before sustains, or before %damage was a build option.

 

(*1) I believe there are some significant number of folks that argue that %damage is somehow bad for the game that mostly focus on potential only for builds at 50 or 50+.

[Erratic1]

On 12/13/2024 at 6:27 PM, Jacke said:

The Aprocalypse is coming.  I've heard it from the Devs, @Sanguinesun, as @Sovera commented above.

 

I am hard-pressed to remember which has been coming for longer now, Aprocalypse or The Rapture.

 

Put me down for, "I will believe it when I see it."

[Nemu]

It's cool if you don't want to use procs, a lot of these ultra survival focused tank builds in fact use no procs and that's ok.

 

There's always brainstorm if you are semi-curious. That requires very low to no investment at all if you just to try it out.

[Zect]

14 hours ago, tidge said:

I don't think %damage is making builds "grossly overpowered"

 

Of course not! That's all me. Jests aside, there is no way to deny it is a major component of the problem. The ability to add ED-busting, AT scalar-busting, damage cap-busting dps in significant amounts has significant balance implications, which deserve to be closely examined and acted on.

 

The PPM system is actually not fundamentally broken wrt damage procs (which is what it was designed in mind for). It needs a balance pass, which it has never been subject to, and aspects like set bonus rech not being factored in the PPM formula deserve looking at. But ultimately, the idea of being able to trade set bonuses for damage is a beneficial one, one that has increased build diversity greatly.

 

The problematic cases are the non-damage procs, things like toe +end or gaussians's or tanker ATIO1, which in certain cases can be finagled to produce impact far beyond what a single slot should ever be able to offer. We're talking things like completely refilling the blue bar with a click, or installing build up with something like 33% uptime with a slot. All non-damage procs need to be re-coded to have their own independent rules for firing. Prevmed is an example of a proc that is built this way and as a result, is both valuable and balanced.

 

Quote

There is no need to roll back to a time before enhancement set bonuses, or before nukes that caused crashes, or before sustains, or before %damage was a build option.

 

There is no need to invoke the fear of the dark ages, when supersition and savagery ruled the world, and heathens ran rampant among the ruins of Rome. Done properly, balance changes ultimately increase both fun and build diversity. People cried doom when bugged burn was fixed, saying it would make FA cease to be viable, yet today FA is more versatile than it ever was, and still does ridiculous amounts of dps while tanking the hardest content in the game successfully. Similarly, the typed defense overhaul (which I admit I never thought any dev team would have the political will to pull off) led to a revolution in typed defense builds as mitigation overnight became a far more subtle and enjoyable problem to solve than sticking kincombats in every hole.

 

Personally, I eagerly anticipate a revamped PPM system which will force me to redo all my builds; I know HC team won't disappoint.

[Jacke]

On 12/14/2024 at 12:41 AM, Warboss said:

I hear ya', but I've played SS with just about every Tanker Primary there is and it's not something that should prevent you from playing it, and subbing temps or Prestige Powers should get you through the crash. I get it if you don't want to go that route, and I can't tell you how to enjoy the game, but maybe another set like Stone Melee or Street Justice would solve the problem.

 

I know it was possible to work around the Rage crash.  I just didn't want to.

 

I decided to reroll my Inv/SS Tanker as a SS/Shield Brute.  I've already got an Inv/DarkM Tanker.  May some day do another Inv/ Tanker, maybe Radiation Melee.

 

On 12/15/2024 at 2:11 PM, Erratic1 said:

I am hard-pressed to remember which has been coming for longer now, Aprocalypse or The Rapture.

 

Put me down for, "I will believe it when I see it."

 

I think the Aprocalypse is the newer one.  I expect it sometime before the next good Duke Nukem game.

 

It's obviously going to be something that needs to be rather exacting.  As I have heard no details beyond it being a rebalance, it may need some plumbing changes before being done.  And it needs to compete with a whole bunch of other changes for a place in the pipeline.  But it will come.  Other fixes need it.

[Erratic1]

4 hours ago, Jacke said:

I think the Aprocalypse is the newer one. 

 

I don't know.... Weren't the original words to the song:

 

Quote

 

Blessed enhancements, procs are now mine.

Oh what a foretaste of power divine. 

 

 

[Jacke]

15 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I don't know.... Weren't the original words to the song:

 

Blessed enhancements, procs are now mine.

Oh what a foretaste of power divine. 

 

Let's not get to immanentizing the eschaton.  Developing and playing an MMO is complex enough here.  😺