Power-Pool Presence, let's make it more powerful.

[shortguy on indom]

Ways to make the Prescence Pool more powerful:
⦁    Make it the only Power-Pool available with a Status Effect Powers.  ie Threat and Fear.
⦁    Make the Status Effect begin to work at Level 4.
⦁    Make all other Status Effect powers (such as Confuse, Immobilize, etc.) available at Level 38 as "Epic or Patron" Pools.
⦁    Make Threat and Fear Enhancements be "Schedule A" since they are at min. 40% stronger than "Schedule B" Enhancements.
⦁    Make 4 of the 5 available powers in the Prescence Pool be used with not just one, but two "new" Very Rare (Purple) Enhancement Sets... "Threat" and "Fear."
⦁    Make the New Purple Sets' set-bonuses begin to work with Status Effects at Level 4 and up.
⦁    Do the same with new PVP sets for "Threat" and "Fear."
⦁    Screw the Epic-Pool and Patron-Pool powers and those who choose them.  No worries, better luck next-time.
⦁    No worries that half-sets could be used in the 4 or 5 powers to maximize effectiveness of Purp/PVP Enhancements.
⦁    It's not like an exemplared down level 50 has an easier time with low level content, than a similarly level matched toon to content player.

[tidge]

What I find most annoying about the Presence pool are that

• Of the three "first picks", two of which must be taken to unlock the final two, offer absolutely no synergy, and
• One of the three "first" picks isn't selectable until the same level (14) as the "final two", which practically delays the choosing of either of the "final two" (assuming a player doesn't want to try to use both Pacify and Provoke).

The second point of annoyance is common to the non-travel legacy Power pools, but compare it to how the travel (and origin) pools are where the "first three" powers are each available at level 4. It makes the unlocks at 14 possible.

 

My first suggestion: Change the allowable levels to follow the 1/1/4/14/20 path. I'd sacrifice not being able to pick either Invoke Panic or Unrelenting until level 20 just to make this transition smoother. Personally I think Unrelenting is better, but that Invoke Panic is more useful in lower level content, so I'd be happy either way.

 

On the first point, there is no getting around that Pacify, Provoke, and Intimidate are all very different types of (single-target, or up-to-5 for Provoke) enemy-affecting powers (that each requires a ToHit check. Of the three, only Intimidate offers any reliable synergy with another pool power (Invoke Panic) choice. Even the Medicine's pool does better in terms of synergy!

 

I can't think of a way to make it valuable (from a play standpoint) to choose to take and regularly use more than one of those first three powers without actually boosting the power of them, which is by definition "power creep".  I think the least "power creep" thing to do would be to add a secondary effect (or increased duration of the existing effect) to each of those first three powers depending on which of the other (first three) powers was taken, similar to how the Fighting pool gets slight bonuses for having more than one of the attacks. My idea here is that a character (hypothetical example follows) who wants Provoke and has to take Intimidate (to unlock either Invoke Panic or Unrelenting) would now get a "improved" version of Provoke (probably just an increased duration of Taunt), plus has an "improved" version of Intimidate to play with (or not). Obviously these pool powers shouldn't become better than equivalent primary/secondary powers from other ATs.

 

 

 

[tidge]

Now, about the specific suggestion.

 

I wouldn't change the "schedule" of Fear or Threat. Primarily, I don't see an issue with them as is. Secondarily, I don't want to think of all the downstream changes (particularly with Threat) that would have to be studied!

 

I'm 100% in favor of either a PVP or Very Rare enhancement set for both Threat and Fear. I can imagine why PVP sets for them were never considered/made, as PVP play can get very triggering for some folks, especially when it (historically) involves Taunts and Controls. (We have nothing to Fear but) Fear itself has a complicated game history. But I digress.

 

What I want from PVP (or Very Rare) Fear/Threat sets are pieces which can enhance multiple attributes that don't exist otherwise in the game (outside of Hami-O or D-Sync). Specifically:

• Threat / Accuracy, because not all threat powers are auto-hit
• Endurance / Threat, because there are threat powers that are toggles
• Fear / Accuracy, because there is only the one piece in Nightmare
• Fear / Recharge, because it doesn't exist at all in set form

Also, I'd really like a %Proc (for Fear, but I can see the case for Threat) that acts like %Confuse in Coercive Persuasion. That %proc makes single-target Confuses worthwhile in xN content, so the same thinking should apply to single-target Fears/Threats, making them more useful in more content. If a hypothetical %proc was just %damage, I suppose that would be similarly well-received.

 

 

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

Make it the only Power-Pool available with a Status Effect Powers.  ie Threat and Fear.

 

Presence is the only pool with guaranteed status effects.  There are no Holds in any pool powers, nor are there any Immobs, and the Stuns are low % chance of.

 

2 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

Make the Status Effect begin to work at Level 4.

 

They already do.

 

2 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

 Make all other Status Effect powers (such as Confuse, Immobilize, etc.) available at Level 38 as "Epic or Patron" Pools.

 

They're already set up that way.

 

2 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

Make Threat and Fear Enhancements be "Schedule A" since they are at min. 40% stronger than "Schedule B" Enhancements.

 

They already are.

 

Do you even Presence, bro?

[megaericzero]

3 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

Make all other Status Effect powers (such as Confuse, Immobilize, etc.) available at Level 38 as "Epic or Patron" Pools.

3 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

Screw the Epic-Pool and Patron-Pool powers and those who choose them.  No worries, better luck next-time.

"I'll make my own theme park! With blackjack and [patrons]! In fact, forget the park! Eh, forget the whole thing." -Bender

[Owl Girl]

i won't complain if Presence gets improved since its a staple power pool in my builds, but isn't Unrelenting already really good?

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

but isn't Unrelenting already really good?

Yes. Yes, it is.

[brass_eagle]

11 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

i won't complain if Presence gets improved since its a staple power pool in my builds, but isn't Unrelenting already really good?

 

I'd wager it's about getting some use out of the first two picks before. The only one I do is Pacify for my squishies tbh. Invoke Panic I try to work in for fun builds, but often can't. Would be nice if that would be a viable choice.

[Super Atom]

This subject has been talked to death

 

At this point Homecoming is aware of every viewpoint in regards to this specific power pool.

 

until now, DELETE THE PRESENCE POOL 🌭🌭🌭

[brass_eagle]

53 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

This subject has been talked to death

 

At this point Homecoming is aware of every viewpoint in regards to this specific power pool.

 

until now, DELETE THE PRESENCE POOL 🌭🌭🌭

 

Search-fu on topics discussed before is great, but I'd also like people new to the community to share their thoughts without necroing a thread. Personal preference.

[biostem]

I feel like the single target and AoE taunts need at least some -range component, even if it was less than what tankers/brutes/scrappers get, (and those powers are autohit vs regular mobs, IIRC, already).

[Super Atom]

4 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

 

Search-fu on topics discussed before is great, but I'd also like people new to the community to share their thoughts without necroing a thread. Personal preference.

 

Oh no, i wasn't saying you can't / shouldn't talk about it. I was just letting everyone know, much like rage, homecoming has probably seen about everything there is to be said about the presence pool.

[brass_eagle]

28 minutes ago, biostem said:

I feel like the single target and AoE taunts need at least some -range component, even if it was less than what tankers/brutes/scrappers get, (and those powers are autohit vs regular mobs, IIRC, already).

 The duration is also atrocious.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

The duration is also atrocious.

Oh no doubt, but frankly, without the -range component, they are nearly useless unless you are already in the faces of those enemies...

[Owl Girl]

the initial powers are of course terrible outside of theme, but so is Flurry. if the prevailing wisdom is that Flurry is a tax for Hasten, then the same holds for Unrelenting imo. it's so good that I would burn two powers to get it, like Hasten.

[biostem]

21 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

if the prevailing wisdom is that Flurry is a tax for Hasten, then the same holds for Unrelenting imo

Only issue is that those powers existed within the set before unrelenting was added, while flurry's been there all the while...

 

Personally, I think there was this philosophy with the early dev team that if a pool power "steps on the toes' of any AT's role, (in this case, the taunt effects), then those powers must be dramatically reduced in effectiveness.

[tidge]

38 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

the initial powers are of course terrible outside of theme, but so is Flurry. if the prevailing wisdom is that Flurry is a tax for Hasten, then the same holds for Unrelenting imo. it's so good that I would burn two powers to get it, like Hasten.

 

AFAIK Hasten does not require any other picks from the Speed pool.

[brass_eagle]

27 minutes ago, biostem said:

Only issue is that those powers existed within the set before unrelenting was added, while flurry's been there all the while...

 

Personally, I think there was this philosophy with the early dev team that if a pool power "steps on the toes' of any AT's role, (in this case, the taunt effects), then those powers must be dramatically reduced in effectiveness.

 

I do like to think we see things a little differently 23 years later. I'm okay with Flurry not existing. I know people quite enjoyed it.... in 2002. That's about it. Maybe those Dark Melee / Flurry *PUNCH* *PUNCH* *PUNCH* builds were a hoot. But, I'm okay with that being two decades ago.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

I do like to think we see things a little differently 23 years later. I'm okay with Flurry not existing. I know people quite enjoyed it.... in 2002. That's about it. Maybe those Dark Melee / Flurry *PUNCH* *PUNCH* *PUNCH* builds were a hoot. But, I'm okay with that being two decades ago.

While flurry may not be a great power, it does fit the theme of the speed pool...

[FupDup]

My suggestion for Presence is to just add a toggle taunt aura as a second T2 power choice. This kills a few different birds with one stone:

 

>Makes the T3 powers more worthwhile because the current T2 is pretty bad, meaning you effectively have to take a "wasted" power pick for them

 

>Allows any AT to try to play as an offtank, which could be especially useful for things like MMs, Crabbers, and Kheldians

 

>Helps alleviate player concerns with runners

[brass_eagle]

18 minutes ago, biostem said:

While flurry may not be a great power, it does fit the theme of the speed pool...

 

Well--this is a debateable point. It isn't very speedy in CoH context!! xD

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

26 minutes ago, biostem said:

While flurry may not be a great power, it does fit the theme of the speed pool...

 

Well--this is a debateable point. It isn't very speedy in CoH context!! xD

It is a rapid-fire series of punches at the target, how is it debatable about it fitting the theme?

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

It is a rapid-fire series of punches at the target, how is it debatable about it fitting the theme?

Animation-wise, it absolutely fits.  Damage-per-activation or Damage-per-animation time, though, I can see how one may view it as "slow"...

[brass_eagle]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It is a rapid-fire series of punches at the target, how is it debatable about it fitting the theme?

While I said that in a joking manner, I dare you to ask in general / LFG / any global chat channel if Flurry is 'fast'. CoH context = animation time is very slow.

 

Maybe I need /s more often. Because internet.

Edited October 15 by brass_eagle

[Rudra]

22 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It is a rapid-fire series of punches at the target, how is it debatable about it fitting the theme?

While I said that in a joking manner, I dare you to ask in general / LFG / any global chat channel if Flurry is 'fast'. CoH context = animation time is very slow.

The theme of the Speed power pool is that: speed. Speedster characters are well known for throwing a dizzying array of rapid-fire punches to take out a target. Which Flurry does. The mechanics of the power seems to be what you are focusing on. The mechanics of how fast a power gets through its animation, how fast it recharges, and other game mechanic functions are not the theme of a power. Flurry fits the theme of the Speed pool. Now, if you are not happy with the mechanics of Flurry? That is a separate issue entirely.