Potential Regeneration power update recommendations

[Xion80]

Power suggestion: (Anti Body)

 

Description: "Your body excels at rapidly repairing wounds, but when that ability is threatened. Regeneration releases anti bodies to counter debilitating effects. "

 

Buff: Recharge debuff protection. 25% while MoG is recharging.

Buff: Perma Regeneration debuff protection. 95%. (We "one trick pony" like SR and regen is our business.)

Buff: confuse, blind, fear immunity.

Activation: passive 

 

Side note: This power doesn't step on the toes of other power sets, while staying true to regeneration ability. It would be a great addition to resilience power.

 

Power Suggestion: (Oh No Way!!!)

 

Description: "Your Regeneration allows you to recover from the most egregious of wounds. You use this knowledge to strike fear into your adversary as your wounds heal their most devastating attack instantly. Their fear gives you an adrenaline rush!"

 

Ability: Reconstruction, and Instant Healing gain Mag 1 and 3 fear upon ability activation,  after player recieves crit damage. You receive Victory rush buff. Minion level 10% end 5% end discount. 

 

Activation: special.

 

Side note: I can't remember how powerful mag 3 fear is. It should be a great place to use the "orange rings" on those two powers. A taunt effect would be great if tank had regen option.

 

Power suggestion: (I ain't done yet!)

 

Description: "Just when they thought they had you. Your body rapidly repairs itself defying the odds."

 

Activation: 0 Health

 

Ability: "I ain't done yet" stacks twice. Each stack provides the player with a 15% max hp health spike when their health reaches zero. 

 

Side note: Wanted to make it a cool ability to replace taunt. Also something to protect us Regens from "late clicks" that activate after we go down. Two "get out of jail" chances. Each stack would be on a ridiculous timer so it couldn't get abused. It should have the "demonic aura" activation animation. That heart beat sound is so fitting!

 

What are your thoughts? Over doing it, or a fresh pair of sails in the right direction?

[Snarky]

I think they are going to nerf Regen

[Uun]

I applaud your enthusiasm, but this would be absurdly OP.

[Xion80]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

I applaud your enthusiasm, but this would be absurdly OP.

Could you elaborate? Where does the "OP" register exactly?

[Uun]

13 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Could you elaborate? Where does the "OP" register exactly?

The sheer number of buffs you're applying. Also, it's unclear if some of these are replacing existing powers or being added to them.

• Resistance to regen debuffs makes a lot of sense and has been suggested many times. Slow resistance also makes sense, although I'm not clear why it's tied to MoG recharging.
• Protection against fear, confuse and -perception doesn't really fit the regen concept. Every armor needs to have a weakness.
• Reconstruction and Instant Healing triggering fear no sense. Why would your foes be terrorized because you're healing?
• Victory Rush buff fits the concept but isn't really needed. I would much rather see the set get resistance to end drain and -recovery.
• I don't understand whether I ain't done yet is a new power or it's being added to an existing power. Seems like it serves the same function as MoG. 

[Xion80]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

The sheer number of buffs you're applying. Also, it's unclear if some of these are replacing existing powers or being added to them.

• Resistance to regen debuffs makes a lot of sense and has been suggested many times. Slow resistance also makes sense, although I'm not clear why it's tied to MoG recharging.
• Protection against fear, confuse and -perception doesn't really fit the regen concept. Every armor needs to have a weakness.
• Reconstruction and Instant Healing triggering fear no sense. Why would your foes be terrorized because you're healing?
• Victory Rush buff fits the concept but isn't really needed. I would much rather see the set get resistance to end drain and -recovery.
• I don't understand whether I ain't done yet is a new power or it's being added to an existing power. Seems like it serves the same function as MoG. 

1) I tied it to MoG recharge to "dumb it down" so to speak. More like an "emergency passive response" to extreme danger or shock to the system. Something temporary when the regen resistance takes a hit. Your body is gonna fight!

 

2) I  don't understand why a "regen guy" wouldn't be immune to blindness. Fear!? More like fearless if you know your gonna get back up 9/10 times. Confuse? Ok, I can see pulling that off the menu. We still have "spike/burst damage" weakness if we get to confident. 

 

3) It was a "psychological tactic" Wolverine has used with his healing factor. It would only work on things below "Boss" rating. It can't lock them permanently, and the goal is a few seconds to heal. It can only trigger on crit damage making it rare. Recon/IH update.

 

Maybe slow debuff if enemies are not afraid. People are not so quick to "pull up" or act quickly when danger/caution are on deck.

 

4) End drain resistant would be cool, as I feel Regen should be the king of Debuffs resistance/immunity. But end protection would step on the toes of the powers sets who do that already (IMO). Victory Rush feeds into the "accelerated endurance" motto of the regenerative type. It feeds into the confidence of someone invigorated by the fear of others. Sabertooth. HS bully. Corrupt cop. Conner Mcnuggets.

 

5) "I Ain't Done Yet" is nothing more then a last ditch effort to keep fighting. Think old school Mega Man when your fighting a boss, and it hits your life to zero. You don't explode because you have a health capsule that restores just enough health to keep you on your feet passively activating. That sums it up. It would replace Taunt for scrappers/stalkers. Two chances then you're done! 

 

 I don't like the idea of Regen getting non concept powers like +absorb that Bio/Rad armor have. It misses the mark on Regen. Let us be the "anti debuff guy" that heals fast. No inate DDR, additional +HP, addtional +regen, end protection, +damage, or +absorb. Let my regeneration do the talking.

 

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

2) I  don't understand why a "regen guy" wouldn't be immune to blindness.

Because no matter how good your regeneration may be, it won't help you see through sand in your eyes or smoke in the area.

 

5 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

It would replace Taunt for scrappers/stalkers.

No character has Taunt as part of their Regeneration. You are mixing the armor set with their attack set.

[Xion80]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Because no matter how good your regeneration may be, it won't help you see through sand in your eyes or smoke in the area.

 

No character has Taunt as part of their Regeneration. You are mixing the armor set with their attack set.

1) But Willpower has "sand and smoke" in his eye too! What makes him gtg? 😄

 

2)Ah that's right! I always skip it on my scrapper, and I can't log in atm. I'll have to reevaluate on that one!

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Xion80 said:

1) But Willpower has "sand and smoke" in his eye too! What makes him gtg? 😄

(S)he/they/it has the willpower to keep their eyes open through the irritation of the sand and smoke in their eyes. Still going to have reduced perception from the smoke, except in game which can't make that distinction, but they can at least keep their eyes open through it all. Others tend to shut their eyes until their tears can wash out the sand or they get out of the smoke. It's not a question of healing ability.

[Uun]

22 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

Victory Rush feeds into the "accelerated endurance" motto of the regenerative type. It feeds into the confidence of someone invigorated by the fear of others.

I agree that it fits the concept, but Regen already has Quick Recovery so doesn't really need more endurance.

[Xion80]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

(S)he/they/it has the willpower to keep their eyes open through the irritation of the sand and smoke in their eyes. Still going to have reduced perception from the smoke, except in game which can't make that distinction, but they can at least keep their eyes open through it all. Others tend to shut their eyes until their tears can wash out the sand or they get out of the smoke. It's not a question of healing ability.

I have to disagree. If the gas is effecting the mucus membrane to cause such an irritation then that power is gonna kick in without question. Normal ppl have immunity from gas irritants. I can only imagine how resistant a person with regeneration would be.

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

I have to disagree. If the gas is effecting the mucus membrane to cause such an irritation then that power is gonna kick in without question. Normal ppl have immunity from gas irritants. I can only imagine how resistant a person with regeneration would be.

There is a difference between something affecting something else and that something causing harm to that something else. A regeneration character isn't going to recover from sand in their eyes any faster or better than someone that lacks regeneration ability. A willpower character isn't going to recover from sand in their eyes any faster or better than someone that lacks willpower, but the willpower character can still power through the sand to keep his/her/their its eyes open despite the sand to see the blurry enemy and strike. I should probably also point out that /Willpower does not actually have any resistance to Blind effects. Instead, the /Willpower character has heightened senses, so the character can perceive enemies farther away, and so takes more blinding to incapacitate. Why /Willpower has heightened senses and /Regeneration does not? I have no clue.

 

Either way, if we disagree, we disagree. Not something to argue over.

[Xion80]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

There is a difference between something affecting something else and that something causing harm to that something else. A regeneration character isn't going to recover from sand in their eyes any faster or better than someone that lacks regeneration ability. A willpower character isn't going to recover from sand in their eyes any faster or better than someone that lacks willpower, but the willpower character can still power through the sand to keep his/her/their its eyes open despite the sand to see the blurry enemy and strike. I should probably also point out that /Willpower does not actually have any resistance to Blind effects. Instead, the /Willpower character has heightened senses, so the character can perceive enemies farther away, and so takes more blinding to incapacitate. Why /Willpower has heightened senses and /Regeneration does not? I have no clue.

 

Either way, if we disagree, we disagree. Not something to argue over.

See that! Willpower has an answer! It makes the "Anti Body" ability a much needed buff for Regen. Dosen't have to be "perma" like Heighten Senses. We just need a temporary response to an irritant. Nothing more embarrassing then a blind Regen in the mist of Arachnos. Not only am I blind. I'm blind just as long as a squishy with no protection.

 

Arguments have feels behind them. This is the equivalent of you and me having a convo over a beer. Good banter if you will. 

[WindDemon21]

Some key fixes it really needs:

 

Reconstruction should be absorb to mesh better with the set.

 

Yes to capped -regen resistance between FH and integration.

 

IH should be a toggle again, it's rech/duration is just, really kinda dumb, and also being able to only enhance a small portion of it. Make it a toggle, but lower the regen by a good amount to like 200%.

 

Bump resilience up just a little bit to and grant it some heftier slow resistance.

 

Add some -recovery/end drain resistance to QR and maybe lower it's recovery and add some end reduction in that's more useful. 30% recover yonly goes so far, in most builds you still hardly notice it much.

 

Would also think for MOG to be more like, 120s, and lower it's duration to 10s, and lower it's cast to .5s. Be more true reactionary, or better more consistently for alpha striking that way.

[Uun]

6 hours ago, Xion80 said:

See that! Willpower has an answer! It makes the "Anti Body" ability a much needed buff for Regen. Dosen't have to be "perma" like Heighten Senses. We just need a temporary response to an irritant. Nothing more embarrassing then a blind Regen in the mist of Arachnos. Not only am I blind. I'm blind just as long as a squishy with no protection.

If I'm counting correctly, only 6 armor sets have +perception. If your set doesn't have it, there are options available: Tactics, Focused Accuracy, Targeting Drone and Rectified Reticle IO.

[Lazarillo]

11 hours ago, Uun said:

Protection against fear, confuse and -perception doesn't really fit the regen concept. Every armor needs to have a weakness.

I would argue that protection against Fear, particularly, doesn't need to be a weakness for such a wide swath of armor sets, doubly so when unlike other weaknesses, it can't be compensated for from pool powers or set bonuses.  That's probably a tangent, but always important to note.  Still, if we're buffing Regen, no reason not to include something that's needed on a wider level anyway.

[Uun]

I did a quick tally of which sets have protection/resistance against more exotic mezz and debuffs. Please note, resistance levels vary by AT and between sets. For example, while both Energy Aura and Invul have end drain protection, they have significantly less than Bio, Electric. Radiation has significantly greater -regen resistance than Regen or WP. That said, Regen clearly trails vs. other sets, having no protection/resistance to exotic mezz or debuffs other than -regen. My recommendation would be to add resistance to -end/rec and -spd/rech.

 

	KB	Fear	Conf	End	Speed	Percep	Repel	Regen
Bio Armor	x			x	x
Dark Armor		x		x		x
Electric Armor	x			x	x
Energy Aura	x			x	x		x
Fiery Aura				x	x
Ice Armor	x				x	x
Invulnerability	x			x	x		x
Ninjitsu	x	x	x			x
Radiation Armor	x			x	x			x
Regeneration	x							x
Shield Defense	x	x	x		x		x
Stone Armor	x		x	x		x	x
Super Reflexes	x		x		x	x
Willpower	x	x	x			x	x	x

[Xion80]

14 hours ago, Uun said:

If I'm counting correctly, only 6 armor sets have +perception. If your set doesn't have it, there are options available: Tactics, Focused Accuracy, Targeting Drone and Rectified Reticle IO.

Indeed there are, but supplementing flaws with outside options isn't the goal. Improvement of Regen's base of operations is the target. We need a stronger baseline, and debuff protection is the best way to go. 

[Xion80]

On 11/30/2024 at 3:09 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Some key fixes it really needs:

 

Reconstruction should be absorb to mesh better with the set.

 

Yes to capped -regen resistance between FH and integration.

 

IH should be a toggle again, it's rech/duration is just, really kinda dumb, and also being able to only enhance a small portion of it. Make it a toggle, but lower the regen by a good amount to like 200%.

 

Bump resilience up just a little bit to and grant it some heftier slow resistance.

 

Add some -recovery/end drain resistance to QR and maybe lower it's recovery and add some end reduction in that's more useful. 30% recover yonly goes so far, in most builds you still hardly notice it much.

 

Would also think for MOG to be more like, 120s, and lower it's duration to 10s, and lower it's cast to .5s. Be more true reactionary, or better more consistently for alpha striking that way.

- Reconstruction turning into anything using +absorb would just kill me. It doesn't fit Regen at all.  I'd take 20% slow protection added  over +absorb. 

 

- Speaking of Reconstruction. Why on earth does Healing Flames have a faster recharge then Reconstruction? 

 

- IDK about resistance bump. I made a TW/Regen Brute and was able to reach 90% to S/L. It was mmmmm... different. 

 

I prefer the click session. It gives me so many options to control my fate. Ace of Spades: Claws/Regen Scrapper

 

"Doesn't matter what they do....I've always got a trick up my sleeve."

[Xion80]

On 12/1/2024 at 10:38 AM, Uun said:

I did a quick tally of which sets have protection/resistance against more exotic mezz and debuffs. Please note, resistance levels vary by AT and between sets. For example, while both Energy Aura and Invul have end drain protection, they have significantly less than Bio, Electric. Radiation has significantly greater -regen resistance than Regen or WP. That said, Regen clearly trails vs. other sets, having no protection/resistance to exotic mezz or debuffs other than -regen. My recommendation would be to add resistance to -end/rec and -spd/rech.

 

	KB	Fear	Conf	End	Speed	Percep	Repel	Regen
Bio Armor	x			x	x
Dark Armor		x		x		x
Electric Armor	x			x	x
Energy Aura	x			x	x		x
Fiery Aura				x	x
Ice Armor	x				x	x
Invulnerability	x			x	x		x
Ninjitsu	x	x	x			x
Radiation Armor	x			x	x			x
Regeneration	x							x
Shield Defense	x	x	x		x		x
Stone Armor	x		x	x		x	x
Super Reflexes	x		x		x	x
Willpower	x	x	x			x	x	x

Based on the chart, we see that Regen is lacking vs every other powerset. Sets missing KB can be plugged easy. Those without regen debuff protection are fine, as their primary form of protection isn't regeneration.  How  are we "second best" at what we are known for? Ridiculous! Its common knowledge regeneration is the lowest form of protection in the game.  I'm fine with that, but we need the proper buffs to make our niche solid. From a comparative view of this chart. We really have no "X's" on the board.

Edited December 2 by Xion80

[Ukase]

On 11/30/2024 at 8:50 AM, Uun said:

Every armor needs to have a weakness.

So, just thinking out loud. 
Why? I accept the fact that stepping into a mob of +4/8 and not having to do anything to mitigate incoming damage is not very interesting to a lot of players. It's an interesting thing, this contrast between players that want to feel genuinely super and those that are looking for legitimate challenge. 

On the one hand, it's crazy that we use Mids, plot out our builds to handle that kind of challenge, and then complain there's no challenge. Ouro and TFs offer the opportunity for various challenges, but some players want that challenge to be consistent, across the board. Not overwhelming 4* challenge, just a little bit harder than what we have now. Like 1*, I suppose. 

Other players want page 3 fire farm kind of super. Just park it and watch it burn. It has been both boring and cathartic on some level for me. 

I imagine a fair number of players from retail dabbled in Regen before the nerf. I had a spines/regen scrapper named Scipio. Had a fair amount of fun with it. Didn't have mids or anything, so no telling what I might have been able to do if I'd had a clue as to what I was doing. 

I can't speak for the OP, but I imagine there wasn't much math done, maybe some mental calculations. Still, isn't it time something was done with regen? If someone were to ask me to create the most miserable melee character I could, it would be a kinetic melee/regen scrapper. Regen can be passable, and even fairly good on a Sentinel properly done. 
But how many of our players do things properly? 

I'm okay with a few folks, using their knowledge of game mechanics having a simple time of it so the more casual player can feel more super from time to time. 

I don't pretend to know the litmus test for what's over-powered. Is it over-powered for some our better players who can zip through 4* LGTF in 25 minutes? Is it over-powered for the 16 year old kid who only gets to play on every other Saturday when he's not having to travel to his Dad's house on the weekends? I can't answer these questions. Thankfully I don't have to. 

But I think even though the numbers suggested might be terribly OP, it's worth a look. An investigation as to what it might do to the Sent that can make fair use of regen, and what it might do for a scrapper that can only presently be passable for the average player. Maybe the idea is good, but the numbers are too high. 

The meme "Nerf Regen" ...it's time to put that away and actually make regen a good set, not just passable. 

[WindDemon21]

On 12/1/2024 at 4:08 PM, Xion80 said:

- Reconstruction turning into anything using +absorb would just kill me. It doesn't fit Regen at all.  I'd take 20% slow protection added  over +absorb. 

 

- Speaking of Reconstruction. Why on earth does Healing Flames have a faster recharge then Reconstruction? 

 

- IDK about resistance bump. I made a TW/Regen Brute and was able to reach 90% to S/L. It was mmmmm... different. 

 

I prefer the click session. It gives me so many options to control my fate. Ace of Spades: Claws/Regen Scrapper

 

"Doesn't matter what they do....I've always got a trick up my sleeve."

It still would, It's literally just making IH a toggle instead of a click. And for it's rech/duration, you're hardly ever clicking it so that wouldn't affect regens playstyle like, at all.

 

As per absorb, it makes perfect enough sense. Instead of your cells regenerating, they're using the same thing to pre-generate cell mass for the damage, and the set would be many times better with that as absorb versus a heal. But yes, it doesn't make sense it has a 60s rech yet healing flames is 40, but as an absorb, that 60s would make a little more sense cause it has a little better use than the heal (same hp values).

 

Edit: as per resistance, it could still use that bump. Many builds, well they don't reach that, esp scrapper and stalkers (stalker ugh). In which case for your point, it wouldn't drastically change too much anyway.

Edited December 5 by WindDemon21

[BrandX]

On 11/30/2024 at 11:34 AM, Xion80 said:

1) But Willpower has "sand and smoke" in his eye too! What makes him gtg? 😄

 

2)Ah that's right! I always skip it on my scrapper, and I can't log in atm. I'll have to reevaluate on that one!

 

WP has heightened Senses.  That's how they avoid being blind.

[BrandX]

This got me thinking...

 

I can see adding the Fear Protection.  Slow Protection.  -Regen resist.  Add these to Integration.  Though, Fear Protection could just be put into Moment of Glory.

 

Add some Defense All and +Recharge to Resilence.  You're body is healthy!  It keeps a good amount of adrenaline going, which helps keep you resilient.  I'm not saying a huge amount in the defense.  Small amount and enough to add in some IO options.

 

Not sure we need the absorb, but tacking some on Reconstruction wouldn't be bad or a passive type equal to Preventive Medicine attached to Fast Healing.   But, if not that, could just give Reconstruction a bit of Heal over Time like Time Manipulation's heal.  So a good heal and then a small heal that last a bit of time.

[Enamel_32]

I think my ideal state for Regeneration vs. debuffs would be close to 0% resistance, and instead all the durations are greatly reduced, something above 80% duration reduction. Thematically it's all about feeling the pain and completely bouncing back, after all. As far as I'm aware, the game doesn't allow for that unfortunately.

 

However, you could do this with status effects. I think fear resistance would be fine and dandy to add, potentially along with 1 or 2 other less-common status effects.

Edited December 6 by Enamel_32