Chris Evans back for Avengers: Doomsday

[ZacKing]

I guess he couldn't let RDJ get all the limelight. 🙂

 

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/588963-chris-evans-mcu-return-avengers-doomsday

 

 

Calling it now... this'll be alternate universe Hydra Cap.

 

[Ghost]

Sorry, but this is a joke.

They think the MCU is currently failing because the fans want the original actors.

In reality we want a good story and entertaining action without all the BS

[Techwright]

If they're still doing the multi-verse stuff, there's always the possibility that Evans is Johnny Storm...again.   Perhaps Evan's Storm is the last survivor of his universe's Fantastic Four and is set in opposition to Downey's Doom.  Sort of the resistance leader.   It has the advantage that those who never saw the previous Fantastic Four will at least be familiar with the character of Johnny Storm due to the July 2025 release of Fantastic Four: First Steps. 

[biostem]

It'd be kind of interesting to see him as the serum-less "Hydra Smasher" pilot...

[ZacKing]

23 hours ago, Ghost said:

Sorry, but this is a joke.

They think the MCU is currently failing because the fans want the original actors.

In reality we want a good story and entertaining action without all the BS

 

I think that's it exactly.  They're looking at how well Deadpool and Wolverine did and thinking that it's viewers longing for nostalgia, when in reality it's just that they've been shelling out pure crap.  It is a joke to be casting RDJ as Dr. Doom when there's any number of actors out there who could do the role justice.  I hate to say it, but his casting alone doesn't give me any confidence the story is going to be good.  I think Evans isn't going to be the last of the OG Avengers to make a return for this movie either, and I don't think this is enough to save it.

[Ghost]

10 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

It is a joke to be casting RDJ as Dr. Doom when there's any number of actors out there who could do the role justice.  I hate to say it, but his casting alone doesn't give me any confidence the story is going to be good.  

We essentially are getting old man Doom.  Which means he won’t be that “ultimate” villain that causes all kinds of problems over the next 10 years.

He’ll probably end up neutered and thrown away fairly quickly like Ultron.

 

IMO the whole thing just stinks.  I can’t help but feel like the ride is over, and we are not too far away from being at the point of being lucky if we get some low budget mess like we used to get in the 80s.

 

 

[Excraft]

I think what we're getting is alternate universe Tony Stark, not Victor Von Doom.  Hydra won and Tony Stark became Dr. Doom instead of Iron Man and Chris Evans will be Hydra Cap.  I can't help but do an eye roll and groan reading about this.  I agree, news of Scarlett Johansson joining the cast isn't far behind.  Marvel/Disney already knows Captain Falcon: Brave New World is going to be a disaster and there's really nothing on the slate to generate any excitement, so they're throwing money at the original actors to get them back. 

 

The MCU died after Endgame in my opinion.  They got lucky with Spider-Man since then, but even that's beginning to play itself out. 

[Ghost]

Think I’ve even said it on these forums before

IMO, Endgame should have been it.

They should have wiped the slate clean, and started in a whole new direction building one of the various other teams out there.  They should have spent time advertising to “forget everything you’ve known and seen.  This is a whole new universe”.  All the while never mentioning anything or anyone we’d seen leading up to Endgame.

This would have let them start something new from the very beginning, without worrying how it would fit into the lore already established by the MCU.

 

[Techwright]

9 hours ago, Excraft said:

  I agree, news of Scarlett Johansson joining the cast isn't far behind.

 

 

Well, in the Endgame lore:

Spoiler

The soul stone was returned immediately after it was acquired, and we really don't know what a soul stone does with souls beyond storing them.  Actually, we're not even sure if the return stones stayed the course and were destroyed or not.  There's a lot of wiggle room for stories bringing Natasha back, and it is a comic book after all.

 

[Ghost]

10 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

Well, in the Endgame lore:

  Hide contents

The soul stone was returned immediately after it was acquired, and we really don't know what a soul stone does with souls beyond storing them.  Actually, we're not even sure if the return stones stayed the course and were destroyed or not.  There's a lot of wiggle room for stories bringing Natasha back, and it is a comic book after all.

 

Adding spoiler tags because….,I don’t even know why

 

They could bring her back the same way they brought back Gamora and Loki - an early version of her 

[Without_Pause]

20 hours ago, Ghost said:

Think I’ve even said it on these forums before

IMO, Endgame should have been it.

They should have wiped the slate clean, and started in a whole new direction building one of the various other teams out there.  They should have spent time advertising to “forget everything you’ve known and seen.  This is a whole new universe”.  All the while never mentioning anything or anyone we’d seen leading up to Endgame.

This would have let them start something new from the very beginning, without worrying how it would fit into the lore already established by the MCU.

 

What teams are they starting over with at the time of the end of Endgame? F4 and X-Men aren't options. Even Daredevil was a work in progress getting over to the MCU. Sure, they pulled off GotG, but any and everybody thought that was a huge risk before it was shown to not be a risk. 

 

I think the biggest problem Marvel has right now is post Endgame is the sheer lack of new bankable stars. I'll die on the hill that I liked the Marvel shows more than most, but those worked as shows. I can't see any of them really being built as a significant entry point for movies. You simply can't name a actor/character which has been added post Endgame that makes you go, "That's a movie franchise right there."

[InvaderStych]

20 hours ago, Ghost said:

Think I’ve even said it on these forums before

IMO, Endgame should have been it.

 

You're not entirely wrong there.

 

I'm in agreement with @Without_Pause with regards to some of the stuff they did with the various series. They worked as series in ways that would not have worked as movies. Imagine trying to drag out the Agatha story across more than one movie, or compress it into a single movie. Neither approach would have worked from a story-telling perspective, and the former would have been a budgetary disaster.

 

The problem is that the financial success of the franchise leading up to Endgame has blinded them to the reality that it simply isn't a repeatable formula. They would see more success focusing on smaller stories set in the world they've created than they will ever see trying to repeat the blockbuster success by invoking a "multi-verse," recycling characters, or re-casting so-called "stars."

 

And let's be honest here. F4 is, imo, a meme. The best version of "Reed Richards" is found in The Venture Brothers. Nothing they do with it will crack the interest of the general audience. Dr. Doom without the Victor Von is a waste of a good baddie, and X-Men is better served in a serial format than in big budget films. The dynamics of serial story-telling coupled with the budgetary realities of releasing on streaming vs. trying for a big blockbuster theatrical success is a much better choice all around.

 

I've been saying all along that trying to repeat what was accomplished with the run up to Endgame is doomed to failure for a variety of reasons, up to and including audience expectations. The general reception of these re-casting announcements simply reinforces that theory.

 

The good news is that as this progresses we might actually start seeing a resurgence of moderate budget movies again. What we used to call the "20 million dollar" film 25 years ago. No idea what that is adjusted for inflation. It was the loss of this level of film-making that led to a number of "big movie stars" making the switch to TV in the first place as it no longer signaled the death of a career but was simply a choice to follow to where the stories were being told.

[Ghost]

51 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

What teams are they starting over with at the time of the end of Endgame? F4 and X-Men aren't options. Even Daredevil was a work in progress getting over to the MCU. Sure, they pulled off GotG, but any and everybody thought that was a huge risk before it was shown to not be a risk. 

 

I think the biggest problem Marvel has right now is post Endgame is the sheer lack of new bankable stars. I'll die on the hill that I liked the Marvel shows more than most, but those worked as shows. I can't see any of them really being built as a significant entry point for movies. You simply can't name a actor/character which has been added post Endgame that makes you go, "That's a movie franchise right there."

That’s part of the issue.

It appears as if they were going Young Avengers route, but that seems to be scrubbed.

Word is the post credit scene in the new Cap movie is….

cap being told to put together a new team

 

As for new teams.  They could have started building XMen, Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four….any team.  Instead they seem to have floundered around aimlessly, throwing things at the wall to see what stuck.  Here we are 5 years later, and nothing has stuck.

Edited December 12 by Ghost

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

34 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I think the biggest problem Marvel has right now is post Endgame is the sheer lack of new bankable stars.

This worries me about Marvel. It looks like with the drive to deliver ever bigger tentpole movies for the Mouse, they've lost the ability to take the big gambles on new or relatively mid-level stars they did in the early days, as well as more adventurous scripts telling new kinds of stories. Loki aside, the whole dang Kang thang was a bust.

 

And if you feel that's a controversial statement: rewind your mind a little.

If you told an exec that you wanted RDJ not just in your movie but to hold down a franchise in 2007...

...they'd have had you sedated and carted off to the Betty Ford to dry out.

 

Even though he was well into recovery at that point and had some good creds: when you've woken up in a baby's crib of a house you don't own, too drunk to remember how you got there or whose clothes you're wearing, people remember that kind of stuff.

And worry you're not going to turn up at call time.

Or worry what you'll do if you do turn up.

[Ghost]

12 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

 

 

The problem is that the financial success of the franchise leading up to Endgame has blinded them to the reality that it simply isn't a repeatable formula. They would see more success focusing on smaller stories set in the world they've created than they will ever see trying to repeat the blockbuster success by invoking a "multi-verse," recycling characters, or re-casting so-called "stars."

 

 

This is why I think the answer is a clean start.

Forget about everything that’s been done.  Start over building a whole new world…..just don’t build it with The Avengers

[Without_Pause]

1 minute ago, Ghost said:

As for new teams.  They could have started building XMen, Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four….any team.  Instead they seem to have floundered around aimlessly, throwing things at the wall to see what stuck.  Here we are 5 years later, and nothing has stuck.

FF isn't out until next year. X-Men are 2026, IIRC. I have questions as to how bankable Alpha Flight is, but again, GotG. At least GotG had the toy factor. 

 

Young Avengers has been talked about for some time. Still no movie. Still hardly anyone attached to it who is bankable. 

 

At this point Marvel would have been better off letting Spider-Man be the movie franchise post Endgame and let Marvel build up their shows, and then when they were ready start up a FF or X-Men series with a similar Avengers focused type run do that, but waiting from Endgame to 2025-2026 is a long wait when billions are sitting on the table waiting to be made. 

[ZacKing]

Benedict Cumberbatch confirms Dr. Strange will be returning as well.

 

https://www.superherohype.com/news/589080-avengers-doomsday-cast-benedict-cumberbatch-doctor-strange-return-doom

 

Anyone still think this isn't going to be multiverse evil Avengers? 🤣

[Without_Pause]

I fully assumed this was going to be a return of the old gang for one final send off. I'm kind of surprised people though otherwise. 

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

I fully assumed this was going to be a return of the old gang for one final send off.

 

They already had their final send off.  It was called Avengers: Endgame.

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

FF isn't out until next year. X-Men are 2026, IIRC. I have questions as to how bankable Alpha Flight is, but again, GotG. At least GotG had the toy factor. 

 

Young Avengers has been talked about for some time. Still no movie. Still hardly anyone attached to it who is bankable. 

 

At this point Marvel would have been better off letting Spider-Man be the movie franchise post Endgame and let Marvel build up their shows, and then when they were ready start up a FF or X-Men series with a similar Avengers focused type run do that, but waiting from Endgame to 2025-2026 is a long wait when billions are sitting on the table waiting to be made. 

My point is that they hadn’t started building them until now - 5 years after Endgame, and they are still trying to shoehorn them into the Avengers universe.

 

They apparently don’t know from year to year if they can use Spidey, so that probably wouldn’t have been a smart move.

[TTRPGWhiz]

Chris Evans was not a bankable star before Captain America: First Avenger.
Chris Hemsworth was not a bankable star before Thor.

Tom Holland was not a bankable star before Spider-Man: Homecoming.
Chadwick Boseman was not a bankable star before Black Panther.
Chris Pratt was not a bankable star before Guardians of the Galaxy (The Lego Movie *did* come out the same year, so perhaps this one is squishier)

Some of the worst MCU movies were built on the backs of 'bankable' stars. This isn't the issue.

If it's about 'which of these relatively unknown leads since Endgame could hold down a trilogy', then there have been some real missteps and tragedies there, not all within Disney/Marvel's control (Boseman, Simi Liu, etc.). Of all the post-Endgame leads, I personally find Iman Vellani the most charismatic, but how many people even know that's the name of the actress who plays (played?) Kamala Khan?

Edited December 12 by TTRPGWhiz

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

there have been some real missteps and tragedies there, not all within Disney/Marvel's control (Boseman, Simi Liu

 

What happened to Simu Liu?  Goog says he's not dead and there's nothing coming up about a scandal.

[ZacKing]

21 minutes ago, Luminara said:

What happened to Simu Liu?  Goog says he's not dead and there's nothing coming up about a scandal.

 

He went on a "cultural appropriation" woke rant about someone non-asian selling boba tea.  https://people.com/simu-liu-accuses-boba-brand-of-culture-appropriation-in-viral-clip-dragons-den-8730049

 

In short, he's another clueless Hollywood moron.

Edited December 12 by ZacKing

[JKCarrier]

Honestly, I think the novelty has just worn off. Marvel built their brand on a particular style, and the fact that each movie led into the next one. But after umpteen movies and tv shows (and DC and countless others trying to imitate them), people are just bored with it. Some say it's because the quality has gone downhill...well, maybe. But I don't think "The Marvels" or "Eternals" are measurably worse than, say, "Iron Man 2" or "Thor: The Dark World". It's just that back then, the formula was still fresh, and now it's old hat.

I'm not sure how to fix this, short of just letting the whole mega-franchise take a rest for 5-10 years to let anticipation build up again (which obviously isn't going to happen). I don't think a reboot would necessarily help, but I suppose James Gunn's Superman will be a test case for how effective that approach could be.
 

[Luminara]

19 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

He went on a "cultural appropriation" woke rant about someone non-asian selling boba tea.  https://people.com/simu-liu-accuses-boba-brand-of-culture-appropriation-in-viral-clip-dragons-den-8730049

 

Good to see that he wore traditional Chinese clothing, moved out of Canada and issued his complaints in his native tongue, so it was clear that he wasn't just trying to stir up a bunch of shit to get attention.

 

Oh, wait...