Chris Evans back for Avengers: Doomsday

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Chris Evans was not a bankable star before Captain America: First Avenger.
Chris Hemsworth was not a bankable star before Thor.

Tom Holland was not a bankable star before Spider-Man: Homecoming.
Chadwick Boseman was not a bankable star before Black Panther.
Chris Pratt was not a bankable star before Guardians of the Galaxy (The Lego Movie *did* come out the same year, so perhaps this one is squishier)

Pratt was already in parts of well received movies. He was part of the Jurassic franchise a mere year later so I question how much GotG factored into it. Evans literally was already tried in a major superhero IP. Hemsworth is essentially a dude just waiting on the right part. Fine, Holland and Boseman were the unknowns. You also seem to be forgetting RDJ, Scarlett Johansson, Cumberbatch Benedict, and Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah, what a bunch no names they had starting that franchise. I mean, Iron Man had Jeff 'The Dude' Bridges as its villain. Mark Ruffalo had already been nominated for an Academy Award. I'm not even going to add in the sheer list of other actors who were part of the Avengers push as it's only stockpiling a list of names where even everyday people know who I was talking about even before Iron Man came out. Seriously, look at the cast of Endgame. Marvel made billions and spent the hell out of it until they found it was not sustainable. 

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

My point is that they hadn’t started building them until now - 5 years after Endgame, and they are still trying to shoehorn them into the Avengers universe.

 

They apparently don’t know from year to year if they can use Spidey, so that probably wouldn’t have been a smart move.

In case you forget, they legally couldn't do it sooner. No one really knows if FF or X-Men are actually going to be good. They took time and still likely miscast FF. I highly doubt Hugh Jackman is going to be Wolverine in X-Men movies as the one part of the team. Marvel is so currently desperate they are greenlighting any and everything they can with Jackman's Wolverine and Deadpool. See Wolverine vs. Hulk. And no, that's not the first mention of it as Charlie from Emergency Awesome talked about how things changed for Marvel post Deadpool Vs. Wolverine. 

 

https://comicbookmovie.com/hulk/wild-new-rumor-claims-hulk-vs-wolverine-movie-is-now-in-pre-production-at-marvel-studios-a212463

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

In case you forget, they legally couldn't do it sooner. No one really knows if FF or X-Men are actually going to be good. They took time and still likely miscast FF. I highly doubt Hugh Jackman is going to be Wolverine in X-Men movies as the one part of the team. Marvel is so currently desperate they are greenlighting any and everything they can with Jackman's Wolverine and Deadpool. See Wolverine vs. Hulk. And no, that's not the first mention of it as Charlie from Emergency Awesome talked about how things changed for Marvel post Deadpool Vs. Wolverine. 

 

https://comicbookmovie.com/hulk/wild-new-rumor-claims-hulk-vs-wolverine-movie-is-now-in-pre-production-at-marvel-studios-a212463

They were just examples.

Point is, IMO they should have started building towards something NOT Avengers related.

Endgame was the perfect wrap up for the team and the story.

Now they just want to milk it, and instead have started losing money.  
So do they change course now?  No.  Instead they think bringing back the actors will fix everything.  
 

I keep going back to Alpha Flight.  It has a history.  It has marketable characters that can easily translate to toys.

Plus it has that XMen connection that they could eventually play off of.

Think about where we could be right now if they had started establishing AF.  With XMen around the corner, the big event could have been a VS or crossover movie.

 

Edited December 12 by Ghost

[TTRPGWhiz]

5 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Pratt was already in parts of well received movies. He was part of the Jurassic franchise a mere year later so I question how much GotG factored into it. Evans literally was already tried in a major superhero IP. Hemsworth is essentially a dude just waiting on the right part. Fine, Holland and Boseman were the unknowns. You also seem to be forgetting RDJ, Scarlett Johansson, Cumberbatch Benedict, and Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah, what a bunch no names they had starting that franchise. I mean, Iron Man had Jeff 'The Dude' Bridges as its villain. Mark Ruffalo had already been nominated for an Academy Award. I'm not even going to add in the sheer list of other actors who were part of the Avengers push as it's only stockpiling a list of names where even everyday people know who I was talking about even before Iron Man came out. Seriously, look at the cast of Endgame. Marvel made billions and spent the hell out of it until they found it was not sustainable. 

Yes, RDJ carried Iron Man and much of the entire franchise. I don’t think anyone would argue that. The Evans FF movies are bad.  Johansson’s movie was terrible and didn’t come out until after her character was dead. Not exactly “carrying a franchise”. Jackson was the lead in exactly 0 movies. Cumberbatch is the closest to a “non-original” Avenger that carried his own movies.

 

The fact is, they didn’t market Phase 1 as “check out this new Chris Evans/Hemsworth/Pratt movie!” It was about the IP, not the cast.

[Techwright]

Mine might not be a popular viewpoint, I accept that, but approaching Endgame, I'd always believed it would be the swan song for the Avengers cast, not for the team.  Actors age a lot faster than comic characters.  The Avengers team has had a huge roster in the comics over the years, not as big as the X-men (when that is a collective term for all things "X"), but still quite sizeable. Characters moved in and out of the roster fairly frequently.  At the announcement of the 2012 Avengers movie, I recall people questioning why this character or that character were included in the movie roster when other characters were not.

 

So, all that to say:  what I'd anticipated was that the MCU Avengers would go forward re-Assembling the team, possibly adding characters like Wonder-Man to the team, refreshing the dynamic for the next decade, just like the comics team does.  I even wondered if Avengers: West Coast or Great Lakes would form. (Okay, so maybe not Great Lakes.  Unless they're to be the modern goofball team like the Guardians of the Galaxy.) I realized there might be some disassembly, such as found in WandaVision and the fallout from that, but I was really surprised when I realized Marvel didn't have a plan with immediate action to re-assemble the core team.  I think that and the hints at a Young Avengers team as replacement, instead of integration, had me upset. 

 

 

Edited December 13 by Techwright

[ZacKing]

Only a matter of time before the official announcement now https://www.superherohype.com/news/589249-avengers-5-6-doomsday-scarlett-johansson-marvel-return-rumor

[Luminara]

This movie sounds like it only needs one more thing now.

 

[BrandX]

On 12/11/2024 at 1:14 PM, Ghost said:

Think I’ve even said it on these forums before

IMO, Endgame should have been it.

They should have wiped the slate clean, and started in a whole new direction building one of the various other teams out there.  They should have spent time advertising to “forget everything you’ve known and seen.  This is a whole new universe”.  All the while never mentioning anything or anyone we’d seen leading up to Endgame.

This would have let them start something new from the very beginning, without worrying how it would fit into the lore already established by the MCU.

 

 

I don't think we need a whole new universe.  I think there have been some problems with some of the movies after, but I also think part of the problem is people who were fans going "Whaaaaa!  I don't have the mental ability to continue on!  Story hard."  😛

[Ghost]

25 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I don't think we need a whole new universe.  I think there have been some problems with some of the movies after, but I also think part of the problem is people who were fans going "Whaaaaa!  I don't have the mental ability to continue on!  Story hard."  😛

The idea for a new universe is to allow new stories to be told without being forced to work around what has already been established.

The main thing being - if all these heroes already exist, where are they when the next big crisis comes along?

 

If you simply stated from the outset - this is a different universe, they wouldn’t have to come up with explanations like where were the XMen or FF4 while Thanos was running wild?

 

It would also allow a crossover down the line, if need be.

 

Anyways, that’s just what I would have done - which means nothing in the grand scheme of things 🙂

[Luminara]

MCU Sitcom:  Death is actually being sent to another universe, and the entire show is them trying to cope with it, but failing constantly because different universe = different rules.  Like, Black Widow is arrested for going ape-shit on a robber at the local grocery store, Cap and Stark have to bail her out and she has to discuss her anger management issues with a therapist; Cap is constantly having trouble with the government wanting to suspend his pension because "being dead for a year is a popular tax dodge"; Stark discovers that his legal name in this universe actually is Tony Stank, and he's desperate to change it but runs afoul of bureaucratic foul-ups.

 

Goddamn, I should be a producer.  Someone hire me.

[Mopery]

On 12/12/2024 at 1:49 PM, Luminara said:

 

Good to see that he wore traditional Chinese clothing, moved out of Canada and issued his complaints in his native tongue, so it was clear that he wasn't just trying to stir up a bunch of shit to get attention.

 

Oh, wait...

Right? He should pull a John Cena, and apologize profusely for his misstep to the American people in our native tongue...

I'd prefer to see him do it in Navajo...

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

FYI: Hayley Atwell will also appear again as Peggy Carter in Doomsday, which is nice after her last MCU incarnation… got cut a bit short. 😬

 

No clue if this is regular Peg, Captain Carter, Director Carter, Evil Mirror Peg or yet another variant. 

[BrandX]

12 hours ago, Ghost said:

The idea for a new universe is to allow new stories to be told without being forced to work around what has already been established.

The main thing being - if all these heroes already exist, where are they when the next big crisis comes along?

 

If you simply stated from the outset - this is a different universe, they wouldn’t have to come up with explanations like where were the XMen or FF4 while Thanos was running wild?

 

It would also allow a crossover down the line, if need be.

 

Anyways, that’s just what I would have done - which means nothing in the grand scheme of things 🙂

 

True, that is an issue since they didn't have them before.  I do want comic accurate X-Men

[Techwright]

17 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

FYI: Hayley Atwell will also appear again as Peggy Carter in Doomsday, which is nice after her last MCU incarnation… got cut a bit short. 😬

 

No clue if this is regular Peg, Captain Carter, Director Carter, Evil Mirror Peg or yet another variant. 

 

Frankly, if Chris Evans is going to reappear as Captain America,  the fanboy in me wants the Captain Carter version, either teaming or opposing depending on what moral polarity this Steve Rogers turns out to be.

[ZacKing]

20 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Frankly, if Chris Evans is going to reappear as Captain America,  the fanboy in me wants the Captain Carter version, either teaming or opposing depending on what moral polarity this Steve Rogers turns out to be.

 

I'd rather not see Captain Carter.  She was already in DS:MoM and What If?  I don't find her to be an interesting character to be honest, just gender bending.  I also think it does the character of Peggy Carter a disservice.  She already was a smart, strong and capable woman without needing to be a super soldier.  Never needed to turn her into one to begin with.  There's a reason why these characters aren't popular and Marvel comic sales have plummeted in recent years.  Not long ago I read a couple of articles about DC and Marvel making up less than 4% of total graphic novel and comic sales.  They're way, way, way behind manga anymore. 

[InvaderStych]

23 hours ago, Luminara said:

This movie sounds like it only needs one more thing now.

 

Right Idea, Wrong Image.

 

 

[Techwright]

8 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Right Idea, Wrong Image.

 

 

Not everyone will recognize the cold, ruthlessly calculating, and fastidiously groomed psychopath that is Dr. Fitz, second-in-command of framework Hydra (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.), but they should.

 

Come to think of it, where's his HYDRA lapel pin?

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Not everyone will recognize the cold, ruthlessly calculating, and fastidiously groomed psychopath that is Dr. Fitz, second-in-command of framework Hydra (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.), but they should.

 

Indeed. As far as I am concerned, Fitz was AoS's true protagonist. His story is far more compelling than any of the other characters.

 

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Come to think of it, where's his HYDRA lapel pin?

 

It was surprisingly difficult to find a good image of Hydra Fitz.