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Dismissive, and Troll Encouraging Behavior

Kistulot

By Kistulot
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tidge

tidge

Posted
Posted
Just now, Excraft said:

 

It certainly reads that way to me, I'm sorry to say. 

 

I find myself thinking: If only it was possible to hear/read Ascendant's half of the conversation.

Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
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Posted
1 minute ago, Excraft said:

 

This proceeds from a false assumption that everything HC does is for us and not for them or for their own enjoyment.

 

No it doesn't. It proceeds from the assumption that they want us to enjoy the game. Who would put hours of their lives towards an experience for other people that they don't even want to be widely enjoyed? A job where you aren't paid? Working with spaghetti code or people on the internet who don't need to see you as a human being?

 

3 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I don't think you making the request makes you entitled.  Your overflow of posts and threads campaigning for something that isn't going to happen in an attempt to bully and guilt HC into adding a NPC of your friend into the game is what makes you come across as entitled.  You asked and got a GM and Council member response.  The response isn't what you wanted to hear, so you're going on the offensive to try and badger HC into a result that you want.  I know you're trying to hide behind "I'm doing this for the community", but it's not coming across that way.  Also, I'm not dismissing your idea.  As I've said before, I think there should be a way for everyone to memorialize a friend or loved one here, but that shouldn't be everyone getting a NPC in the game.

 

If HC's GMs and Devs believe I have been bullying and guilting, instead of continuing to express why i believe their own rationale is contradictory and unsatisfactory, they are more than within their rights to censure me, to tell me, etc. Until they do, I believe it's fair to say you're putting words in their mouths.

 

A response was given--not to me! The response was given in my frustration with how the forum itself was being handled.

 

My actual responses to this situation have not actually been responded to, and I frankly don't see how anything I've done has harmed or will harm anyone.

 

If you think otherwise, wouldn't reporting me be the right option?

 

5 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

There was a thread linked in one of the other discussions requesting @Heracleagetting added to the game in Cimerora after he passed.  I don't recall anyone in that thread complaining about the lack of HC response, or suggesting how unfair it was that the request wasn't acted upon favorably, or that it has to be done because it was done before, so that's only fair.  They made their request, let HC consider it, then moved on.  No complaining, no flood of posts.  Nothing.  They understood the request wasn't approved and respected that decision.

 

No one there is me. I'm happy for them that they were satisfied with the responses and did not care to continue. Did they have a threat sprout in parallel that wanted to crap on the idea but wasn't willing to put it in the same thread as the initial push? I can't say.

 

6 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I really am sorry you all lost someone you cared about and I'm sorry that HC isn't going to deliver what you wanted here.  Criticizing HC for not doing what you want them to do isn't good either. 

 

Thank you for the empathy with my loss.

 

However...

 

Telling someone I disagree with them and give them reasons why and wish for a response is not abuse.

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

It certainly reads that way to me, I'm sorry to say. 

 

If all of these posts haven't illuminated otherwise, then I don't know what to tell you, but I know that I will no longer be repeating myself in your direction if you are unwilling to reply to what I have actually stated.

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Kistulot

Kistulot

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Posted
5 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

That's not at all what happened. Being told "no" isn't the issue here.

 

And uh, frankly, I don't care if you disagree. It's an objectively bad look and Cipher even acknowledged that.

 I cannot express how much I appreciate your contributions in this thread.

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arcane

arcane

Posted
Posted

Honestly just put this guy in the game. Give him his own TF for all I care. If it gets a couple of our most vicious insult-prone posters to go back to sleep, the peace of mind will be worth it.

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Rudra

Rudra

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, arcane said:

Honestly just put this guy in the game. Give him his own TF for all I care. If it gets a couple of our most vicious insult-prone posters to go back to sleep, the peace of mind will be worth it.

Never reward bad behavior. It just encourages it more.

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
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Posted
1 minute ago, arcane said:

Honestly just put this guy in the game. Give him his own TF for all I care. If it gets a couple of our most vicious insult-prone posters to go back to sleep, the peace of mind will be worth it.

 

Heck, I wouldn't argue. Even if this hasn't been the point of this thread, I would probably be pretty distracted making the Umbra Midnight TF. Just sayin'. Give me the tools to make an official TF and I'll be out of all of your hair!

 

...on a more serious note...

 

This thread has not just been about that situation.

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Excraft

Excraft

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Kistulot said:

No it doesn't. It proceeds from the assumption that they want us to enjoy the game. Who would put hours of their lives towards an experience for other people that they don't even want to be widely enjoyed? A job where you aren't paid? Working with spaghetti code or people on the internet who don't need to see you as a human being?

 

I'm sure they're delighted if people enjoy their work, but that doesn't mean that they're working for us.  The Suggestion forum is polluted with all kinds of requests and suggestions for things that players would like to see.  Barely any have been implemented ever.  As for who puts hours of their lives into something for free?  People who are passionate about their hobby and love what they're doing.

 

4 minutes ago, Kistulot said:

If HC's GMs and Devs believe I have been bullying and guilting, instead of continuing to express why i believe their own rationale is contradictory and unsatisfactory, they are more than within their rights to censure me, to tell me, etc. Until they do, I believe it's fair to say you're putting words in their mouths.

 

You probably can't see this because this subject is close the chest for you, so you've lost objectivity, but were they to censure you now, they'd look like the bad guys.  I'm sure there will be people here who'd use it as a rally cry to condemn HC and the GMs for it too.

 

7 minutes ago, Kistulot said:

Telling someone I disagree with them and give them reasons why and wish for a response is not abuse.

 

A GM and a Council member did reply to the thread with answers to the questions raised.  They may not have quoted you directly,  but they both did directly answer the topic of discussion.

 

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
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Posted
1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Never reward bad behavior. It just encourages it more.

 

Treating other members of the community like literal children is part of the problem.

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Rudra

Rudra

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Kistulot said:
4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Never reward bad behavior. It just encourages it more.

 

Treating other members of the community like literal children is part of the problem.

Adults engage in bad behavior too. And if the community rewards them for it, the adults engage in more of it. Treating people like children has nothing to do with my comment.

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ScarySai

ScarySai

Posted
Posted

Oh no, it's fitting. Some people on these boards are in their 50s and have less social skills than a toddler.

 

The real issue is that the authority figures do exactly nothing to solve the problem. They just ignore it, hope it blows over, and then we're back doing this song and dance again because nothing actually happens.

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
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Posted
1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

Oh no, it's fitting. Some people on these boards are in their 50s and have less social skills than a toddler.

 

The real issue is that the authority figures do exactly nothing to solve the problem. They just ignore it, hope it blows over, and then we're back doing this song and dance again because nothing actually happens.

 

This. This. This.

 

The first part could be said so much more charitably, but it doesn't feel like that's getting us anything besides other threads unlocked and the concept that "maybe something didn't go right" and "would need to be examined."

 

Nothing about how this situation has been handled, or the way things have gone around it, make me feel like those moderating particularly care about actual civility, but the appearance of it. People being quiet when they're fed up is not the same as people being quiet because the problem has been solved.

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GM Crumpet

GM Crumpet

Posted
  • Game Master
Posted

Now you're being unfair. We have light moderation compared to some places and prefer players to use their voices. We only interfere when it gets nasty. I've seen GM's attacked on this and other threads to the point I don't know which one is which any more. Cipher has responded, which is almost unheard of, and Widower as well. We don't have the assets, staff, time or facility to do what you want so we get attacked. I've been a GM for almost 5 years now and anyone who has ever had contact with me will tell you I'm extremely fair. I'll spend hours trying to fix an individual problem and work with someone to sort out their issue. I'm a very silly person who loves to have banter with players and do very daft things just to brighten someone elses day. And you know what? The rest of the GM team are people I'm proud to call my friends and colleagues. There isn't a bad one in the bunch. Every one of them, from the novice GM's to the devs to Cipher are volunteers and give their free time to a project they love with all their heart, even though their real life is incredibly busy.

 

We don't dismiss rude and abusive behaviour, we just don't telegraph our actions and hold public lynchings. What we do or don't do is between the player and staff. We have sanctions that range from a quick "Hey mate, that came across as a bit harsh" DM's to warnings and points, to short bans, long bans and permanent bans. If anyone finds out the actions we took it won't be from us, but the downside is it looks like we aren't paying attention. someone gets a week long ban and for them it's upsetting and awful. For everyone else it looks like they've been a way for a week. Then we get complaints that X was reported 2 weeks ago and is still about. Of course they are still about, their ban wore off. We aren't going to say that though. 

 

 

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ScarySai

ScarySai

Posted
Posted

Well, when I see the same group of people brigading threads until they inevitably get closed (which is a weird way to handle that, by the way.), and they're still there weeks to months later doing the same thing, one can't help but think nothing's being done about it.

 

I'm sure you're all great people that hate sentinels just like any proud members of the community, but the moderation policies might need an update or two, because there's clearly a problem.

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GM Crumpet

GM Crumpet

Posted
  • Game Master
Posted
10 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Well, when I see the same group of people brigading threads until they inevitably get closed (which is a weird way to handle that, by the way.), and they're still there weeks to months later doing the same thing, one can't help but think nothing's being done about it.

 

I'm sure you're all great people that hate sentinels just like any proud members of the community, but the moderation policies might need an update or two, because there's clearly a problem.

I do hate sentinels........

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arcane

arcane

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

Now you're being unfair. We have light moderation compared to some places and prefer players to use their voices. We only interfere when it gets nasty. I've seen GM's attacked on this and other threads to the point I don't know which one is which any more. Cipher has responded, which is almost unheard of, and Widower as well. We don't have the assets, staff, time or facility to do what you want so we get attacked. I've been a GM for almost 5 years now and anyone who has ever had contact with me will tell you I'm extremely fair. I'll spend hours trying to fix an individual problem and work with someone to sort out their issue. I'm a very silly person who loves to have banter with players and do very daft things just to brighten someone elses day. And you know what? The rest of the GM team are people I'm proud to call my friends and colleagues. There isn't a bad one in the bunch. Every one of them, from the novice GM's to the devs to Cipher are volunteers and give their free time to a project they love with all their heart, even though their real life is incredibly busy.

 

We don't dismiss rude and abusive behaviour, we just don't telegraph our actions and hold public lynchings. What we do or don't do is between the player and staff. We have sanctions that range from a quick "Hey mate, that came across as a bit harsh" DM's to warnings and points, to short bans, long bans and permanent bans. If anyone finds out the actions we took it won't be from us, but the downside is it looks like we aren't paying attention. someone gets a week long ban and for them it's upsetting and awful. For everyone else it looks like they've been a way for a week. Then we get complaints that X was reported 2 weeks ago and is still about. Of course they are still about, their ban wore off. We aren't going to say that though. 

 

 

Scenarios with plausible deniability are not all that is happening, though. For example, today’s events were pretty cut and dry.
 

This scenario literally happened today:

 

Person A insults Person B (and a host of others)

 

Person B responds to Person A with snark, albeit with kinder words than those used by Person A

 

Person B has their post removed and receives a warning.


Person A does not have their post removed, does not receive a warning (we know this because the first thing that happens with a warning is a removed post), and gets a pat on the back from his buddies.

 

What is your explanation? I asked the GM who did this for an explanation and all they did was tell me the entire thing was my fault for being stupid enough to engage with someone who is insulting me. How exactly is this anything but a middle finger directly from the GM to me?

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arcane

arcane

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Well, when I see the same group of people brigading threads until they inevitably get closed (which is a weird way to handle that, by the way.), and they're still there weeks to months later doing the same thing, one can't help but think nothing's being done about it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

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