Knockfree power

[UltraAlt]

27 minutes ago, Uun said:

Teleport Target only works on minions.

 

not true. slot some accuracy in there.

I went into game and have teleported an LT. Still trying to track down a boss.

 

I do agree that it is highly unlikely to work on EBs ao AVs.

 

"Teleport Target

You can teleport a single foe or ally directly next to yourself. A successful hit must be made in order to teleport the foes. Some powerful foes cannot be teleported. Enemy players that are teleported will be temporarily out of phase, and cannot be targeted or damaged. This power can be interrupted while teleporting foes."

 

 

[Uun]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

not true. slot some accuracy in there.

I went into game and have teleported an LT. Still trying to track down a boss.

You're technically correct, but it's a magnitude and Purple Patch issue, not an accuracy issue. Teleport Target is mag 2.1 and lieutenants have mag -2.0 teleport protection. So you can teleport an even con lieutenant, but it won't work if they're +1 or higher.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=redirects.pool_teleportation.teleport_foe

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Teleport Target only works on minions.

No, it doesn't. It is resisted by a great many enemies, but it is not a minion only affecting power. (Edit: You are correct in that it cannot affect bosses or higher, but not about lieutenants. I've yanked many a lieutenant with Teleport Target with nothing slotted in it. At higher levels, more lieutenants resist it, but that does not make it a minion only affecting power.)

 

Edited January 31 by Rudra

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Team Teleport is in the teleport pool, yet most (if not all) people are buying ATT from the S.T.A.R.T. Vendor instead of wasting power picks on the Teleportation pool.  We as players shouldn't be asked or required to waste power picks and builds taking powers to fix bugs in the game, broken map geometry or the results from badly designed affects from certain powers.

Players take ATT because it yanks the rest of the team to you. As opposed to Team Teleport which requires the team to already be gathered at you and then wait as you teleport the team slowly across the map. There is no comparison.

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

You're technically correct, but it's a magnitude and Purple Patch issue, not an accuracy issue. Teleport Target is mag 2.1 and lieutenants have mag -2.0 teleport protection. So you can teleport an even con lieutenant, but it won't work if they're +1 or higher.

 

My character teleported a red LT.

I didn't try on any purples.

[Uun]

40 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

My character teleported a red LT.

I didn't try on any purples.

RNG hates me then. I've had Teleport Target on my Beast/Traps MM for almost 3 years and I've never managed to teleport a lieutenant. 

[Doomguide2005]

     Perhaps either a START temp power that's not targeted but PBAoE or perhaps something along the lines of either teleport target or fold space as a mission reward temp power.  Then it's either paid for through START or earned via mission complete (with the irony of having something get stuck in the mission) and can be earned again vio Ouro.  Or even both.

 

 

[Uun]

5 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

My character teleported a red LT.

I didn't try on any purples.

Just tested this pretty extensively using paper missions vs. CoT. Unable to teleport any lieutenants that conned higher than yellow (+1 with Alpha slotted / +0 with Alpha unslotted).  Note, the teleport isn't missing. The target fades out but doesn't move to the exit location.

[gameboy1234]

On 1/30/2025 at 11:53 AM, lemming said:

Just the ability to say /stuck at a target.    If not stuck, it would ignore.   

Though maybe characters that find themselves where they are stuck like that, they could do it themselves.   Seems to only happen if you wander away far enough from the stuck mobs do they manage to pull themselves out.

 

I've seen this suggested before, as well as calling it /unstuck.  The Temp Power from START isn't a bad idea either, as it might make newbie aware of the option.  Both would be best.

 

/unstuck should try to verify that a mob is indeed stuck before doing anything.  As temp power it should have a cool down to prevent server load spamming problem (and maybe also a slash command, like /cc has a cool down).  /unstuck without a target might search around for mobs and see if any appear stuck.  This could unstuck mobs that you can't target.  So you'd stand close to the target and type /unstuck and the mob should be moved close to you.

 

Just occurred to me-- as a stop gap: a 100% to-hit Teleport Foe as a Temp Power with a 30 minute cool down (or even longer).  Abuseable, but not much because of the huge cool down.  Keep it handy and only use it when you really need it.

 

[ZacKing]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Players take ATT because it yanks the rest of the team to you. As opposed to Team Teleport which requires the team to already be gathered at you and then wait as you teleport the team slowly across the map. There is no comparison.

 

Both teleport an entire team.  Incan does it too.  Incan and ATT don't require you to waste pool power picks.  Nice try though.

[shortguy on indom]

• WHAT A DIFFERENCE A LITTLE DIFFERENCE WILL MAKE.  - FUGAZI "BLUEPRINT"

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Both teleport an entire team.  Incan does it too.  Incan and ATT don't require you to waste pool power picks.  Nice try though.

So if the basic effect, such as teleports the entire team, regardless of how it is applied makes everything the same, then I take it you won't have any further complaints about players using knockback instead of knockdown or knockup? After all, by your logic, they are all the exact same thing because they move an enemy.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

Just tested this pretty extensively using paper missions vs. CoT. Unable to teleport any lieutenants that conned higher than yellow (+1 with Alpha slotted / +0 with Alpha unslotted).  Note, the teleport isn't missing. The target fades out but doesn't move to the exit location.

when I'm running a character trying to teleport enemies, I put 2 accs in the power. If it looks like a target might high enough level to cause an issue being successful, I'll use a build-up power and/or a yellow insp before using teleport target.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to try track down a boss to teleport. I'm assuming I turned off "bosses on solo" and turned bosses back "on" but didn't have time to run another mission with that character yet. 

[Xion80]

I get it. Something to get that pesky mob from being stuck in the ceiling. Maybe an attack that resets the mob to its original position. Should be some kind of one off, with an absurd cool down.

Edited February 1 by Xion80

[srmalloy]

11 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Why would you want to use it to "unstuck" a character that's not stuck?  That doesn't make much sense.  I also am not sure that the game can't tell the difference between a target being out of LoS and it being stuck in the geometry.  You could be right, but it seems to me that the game knows the difference. 

If I knew for certain how getting the server to shift the position of a mob could be used for a combat advantage, I would have listed it; that doesn't mean it can't happen, and it's better to proactively block a potential exploit than fix it afterwards with a patch.

 

The game returns the same "target blocked" message for both mobs out of LoS and mobs with their targeting point behind geometry they're stuck in. But I don't know if that happens on the client or the server. Meanwhile, the mob buried in geometry is unable to move normally, and that is definitely on the server, but I don't know if the server does more than fail an attempt by the mob logic to move. Both need to be on the server for the server to identify a mob as stuck — when you use the "unstick_npc" power, the server would have to check that a single-target LoS does not exist to the targeted mob, and validate that the mob can't move, which would require a number of move checks in different directions.

[Uun]

31 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

when I'm running a character trying to teleport enemies, I put 2 accs in the power. If it looks like a target might high enough level to cause an issue being successful, I'll use a build-up power and/or a yellow insp before using teleport target.

I’ve got 1 lvl 50 acc IO in Teleport Other, maxed out Tactics and a ton of acc bonuses. As I said before, this is a magnitude issue, not an accuracy issue. When you’re trying to teleport a +1 lieutenant, the purple patch reduces the magnitude below what’s required.

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

So if the basic effect, such as teleports the entire team, regardless of how it is applied makes everything the same, then I take it you won't have any further complaints about players using knockback instead of knockdown or knockup? After all, by your logic, they are all the exact same thing because they move an enemy.

 

Yes, the basic effect is the same - moving an entire team, but no, you've missed the point.  I did specifically say in my earlier post - which you don't seem to have read - that there are differences between the two.  The point was that both can move an entire team, yet people aren't wasting a pool and power picks to take one in favor of just buying a power from the P2W vendor or crafting and using Incan.  You're suggesting that people should waste a power pick just to fix a broken and problematic game mechanic when tagerts get stuck from holes in the map geometry in lieu of the suggested temp power. 

 

14 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

If I knew for certain how getting the server to shift the position of a mob could be used for a combat advantage, I would have listed it; that doesn't mean it can't happen, and it's better to proactively block a potential exploit than fix it afterwards with a patch.

 

I suppose you're right, but I'll be honest in that I don't see this getting exploited, especially since I don't think you'd be able to tell exactly where the stuck NPC would get unstuck and moved to.  Seems like it would be more of a pain to try and use this as an exploit than it would to just fight something.

 

16 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

The game returns the same "target blocked" message for both mobs out of LoS and mobs with their targeting point behind geometry they're stuck in.

 

Actually don't we get a "target not in line of sight" message if they're not in LoS? 

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

So if the basic effect, such as teleports the entire team, regardless of how it is applied makes everything the same, then I take it you won't have any further complaints about players using knockback instead of knockdown or knockup? After all, by your logic, they are all the exact same thing because they move an enemy.

 

Yes, the basic effect is the same - moving an entire team, but no, you've missed the point.  I did specifically say in my earlier post - which you don't seem to have read - that there are differences between the two.  The point was that both can move an entire team, yet people aren't wasting a pool and power picks to take one in favor of just buying a power from the P2W vendor or crafting and using Incan.  You're suggesting that people should waste a power pick just to fix a broken and problematic game mechanic when tagerts get stuck from holes in the map geometry in lieu of the suggested temp power. 

I read your post. I even went back and re-read it to make sure. Your argument fails because the reason why players take ATT from START and not Team Teleport from the Teleport pool is because those powers have nothing in common other than they teleport the team, and players far more often need to call team mates to them than transport them with them to a destination given the ample options players already have for travel powers. Players are getting free movement powers in the form of Athletic Run which they can exchange for Ninja Run or Beast Run for free at the START vendor. They can also purchase jet packs from the START vendor or other flight powers that don't need to be recharged routinely (but can't be used with attacks because of animation issues) and so have flight powers without needing to grab Flight or Mystic Flight from a power pool. They can also get a free jet pack by logging out in the correct location(s). With travels being everywhere without need for taking them as powers, Group Flight and Team Teleport have fallen out of use except for MMs for the most part. One power being purchased from a vendor and another not being selected from a power pool is not causation for each other just because they both happen to teleport the team in some fashion. That argument is flawed. Especially coming from someone that routinely complains that KB should die and be replaced with KD instead.

 

My response, that you have taken fault with, is that we have powers available to accomplish what the OP wants. And I am against more "free" powers being available from START. (Free in this case being not requiring a power pick and so letting players stack on even more powers on their characters.) On previous threads where a slash command to move the stuck mob to the nearest pathing beacon was requested to address the OP's concern? I was and still am fine with that option/request. Giving players what amounts to Teleport Target as a purchasable power from START on the pretense that it will only be used to get target mobs, pets, and/or players that are currently stuck in the map geometry and free them from it we pinky swear that is all it will be used for and nothing else is not something I can agree with. The problem with the slash command, which is also the problem with the author's request, is that the game does not know something is stuck in the geometry as far as I can tell. Mobs hop around trying to move, sure, but they also (rarely) do that when they are simply attacking me too. A mob can't be attacked because it is stuck in the geometry? I routinely see mobs that can't be attacked despite nothing between us because a crate or similar object that is not actually between us is blocking my attack's line of sight and preventing it from activating. Especially on warehouse maps. Every issue that arises from mobs being stuck in the map geometry also turns up when mobs are out in the open. Like simply walking after us in escort missions and the escorted mob can't figure out how to navigate an open hallway with nothing in it and then cries out that (s)he can't see us despite us being only 10 feet away. The game can't tell what is going on. Some of the options other players have provided in this thread I agree with. Just not a Teleport Target power that can be bought from START like how I read the OP as. (And yes, the author did come back and clarify that was not his/her/their intent, so I am quite aware that was not how the OP was intended now.) And one such person even gave a good reason why Teleport Target, let alone Fold Space, may not be available to players to use even if they choose to take it. None of that matters to you however because you just saw an opportunity to pick another fight with me and don't care why I posted anything I did or what I am willing to accept on this matter.

[Nerio72]

That's the thing tho, I'm not asking for a power that does ANYTHING other than, however it can do it, release a mob/enemy from walls, etc. So we really don't need to argue about the differences in teleports. I don't want a teleport. I don't want anything that is giving you any edge in combat or anything else. I want to get that dude out of that wall. You are making very valid points in your posts but they have nothing to do with what I'm suggesting.

[ZacKing]

38 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Giving players what amounts to Teleport Target as a purchasable power from START on the pretense that it will only be used to get target mobs, pets, and/or players that are currently stuck in the map geometry and free them from it we pinky swear that is all it will be used for and nothing else is not something I can agree with.

 

No one has asked for this.  Here is (again) what the OP is suggesting -

 

17 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

That's the thing tho, I'm not asking for a power that does ANYTHING other than, however it can do it, release a mob/enemy from walls, etc. So we really don't need to argue about the differences in teleports. I don't want a teleport. I don't want anything that is giving you any edge in combat or anything else. I want to get that dude out of that wall. You are making very valid points in your posts but they have nothing to do with what I'm suggesting.

 

That's not asking for new teleport ability that they'll pinky swear only to use under certain conditions. 

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

That's the thing tho, I'm not asking for a power that does ANYTHING other than, however it can do it, release a mob/enemy from walls, etc. So we really don't need to argue about the differences in teleports. I don't want a teleport. I don't want anything that is giving you any edge in combat or anything else. I want to get that dude out of that wall. You are making very valid points in your posts but they have nothing to do with what I'm suggesting.

 

2 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

No one has asked for this.  Here is (again) what the OP is suggesting -

 

45 minutes ago, Rudra said:

(And yes, the author did come back and clarify that was not his/her/their intent, so I am quite aware that was not how the OP was intended now.)

 

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

I’ve got 1 lvl 50 acc IO in Teleport Other, maxed out Tactics and a ton of acc bonuses. As I said before, this is a magnitude issue, not an accuracy issue. When you’re trying to teleport a +1 lieutenant, the purple patch reduces the magnitude below what’s required.

 

whatever. It's working for me, but I'm not playing a level 50.

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

(And yes, the author did come back and clarify that was not his/her/their intent, so I am quite aware that was not how the OP was intended now.)

 

The intent was evident from the very first post.  Nobody was covertly trying to suggest some new free temp power they can use for exploits.  They were asking for a way to deal with the adverse effects of poorly designed game mechanics and maps.

[srmalloy]

12 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Seems like it would be more of a pain to try and use this as an exploit than it would to just fight something.

Making something difficult is no substitute for making it impossible.

[ZacKing]

35 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Making something difficult is no substitute for making it impossible.

 

I can hop on one leg from Dunnet Head to Dover, then paddleboard across the English channel to France and then rollerskate to Paris.  Or I could just hop on an airplane and go there.  Most people are going to find the most efficient and easy way of doing something, not the hardest and most tedious.  That's human nature.  Trying to use this as an exploit (which again, it was not suggested for), is way more work than it would be worth.