Need more Knockback->Knockdown conversion!

[GaelonCeeslian]

as far as I know there is only one set that converts knockback to knockdown and that is overwhelming force, which as luck would have it makes it so that only one power in your entire set can get it, do to the unique-ability of the thing. so for the people who have tons of knockback (I'm looking at you, energy blast!) and want to say, run with any close combat ATs, like, oh I dunno, Tanks, Brutes, Stalkers, or Scrappers, you are all of a sudden relegated to one attack (ignoring prestige powers) or be subject to lots of passive aggression (or straight up nerd rage) from their teammates. Also it costs lots of inf or merits for those who don't want to do the event.

 

my suggestion is to make either a one off enhancement that does what OF: KB->KD does and have it be an out of set enhancement (that makes it so people have to think about their builds harder, deciding what sets they want to interrupt or what have you) or make a set that has KB->KD as a set bonus (either tier 5 or tier 6) with having only one enhancement be unique (for tier 5) or make it so that none of the set is unique (for tier 6). It introduces a lot more manipulation and thinking that people have to do in order to manage builds, and also makes a lot more KB focused sets be open for close combat support.

 

(easy close combat support for noobs, not talking to all the people who trained themselves to work knockback into a teamable state, good job you all!)

[Judasace]

KB is a part of the game. I'm not even sure it's a good idea to be able to change KB to KD at all. I have a 50 EB and wouldn't put onr of those procs anywhere near my powers.

[nihilii]

There is a knockback set called (IIRC) Sudden Acceleration with a non-unique KB to KD IO, so with some slotting sacrifices you can turn several KB powers into KD!

[SwitchFade]

Preface: I detest inconsiderate spam of massive KB from any source.

 

That said, skill transforms KB into an amazing tactical tool.

 

I have been watching the litany of threads concerning KB, and have evolved my opinion, in part due to the massive amounts of "requests to improve the game" (not targeting you op, or trying to single you out) that are in actuality a slow progression of dumbing down the game, making it simpler and more instant gratification.

 

So, here it is: the io convert is as far as KB conversion should go. Powers and sets that have it should be left as is, no new enhances should be added and no ok sets should be changed with respect to KB.

 

Why? Like many things, it is a unique facet of the game that is very powerful and handy, but much like a chainsaw, a bloody disaster when used irresponsibly. Lately, everyone seems to be subconsciously being pulled along in the current of asking for things to be made easier, faster, better and more instant.

 

I had to stop a mission in game for 5 minutes to helpfully explain to a /stormy, that yes, hurricane is supermazing, and NO you should not leave the goddamn thing running Perma. Again, OP, this is not you, but an angle of perspective; I think we all need to council ourselves to adapt, and use a different approach, and we will find that KB isn't an issue (or other such aspects, like controlled mass immob abuse) it is our improper application.

[Legree]

Lately, everyone seems to be subconsciously being pulled along in the current of asking for things to be made easier, faster, better and more instant.

 

QFT.  I've got nothing against small adjustments to balance out powersets, but if half the suggestions in this forum were implemented the game we're all playing wouldn't be the game I missed for 7 years, and it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

 

KB isn't an issue (or other such aspects, like controlled mass immob abuse) it is our improper application.

 

Also this.

 

I'd only add that a lot of this seems to be driven by the perception that "herd everything then AoE it down" is the only way to play - which it really isn't.  If a team has to do that for every group or face defeat then I suspect that team is biting off more than it can chew.

 

 

[Williwaw]

Just to once again note - what the TC is asking for already exists in the game.  If you want no knockback, then you don't have to have knockback, but you have to give up a slot for it.

[Sunsette]

Whenever uncontrolled knockback gets brought up, it's usually Energy Blast that is the first to get mentioned, as in this thread. Storm Summoning and Force Fields (repel, etc.) are quick to get their defenders. That is in large part because Energy Blast's effects are random; for the most part, not made as a tactical choice, but something that happens along the way of the main thing you're doing. Sometimes.

 

I know and love just about all the tricks for handling knockback; I literally wrote a guide on it, in the spirit of the guides I read on it when I was new. I don't think I've had a complaint about my KB since like issue 9 or 10. The last thing I want is for knockback to go away; its implementation in this game is one of the things that makes it stand out against every other MMO I've played. It is impactful here, it's not simply a PvP or herding ability. SWTOR is literally the only other game I've played where Knockback ever truly was impactful in a PvE context, and it is to my great disappointment how the effect has largely been forgotten about in post-launch content and launch content nerfed to no longer expect it.

 

Some people are asking for things to just be straight up undifferentiated, yes. But I think there's a good reason that Energy Blast comes up the most. Two good reasons. One is that it is proliferated to so many archetypes, and the other is that there's a lot of unreliable rider effects. Storm offers other things for you to be doing when knockback isn't what you want. That's crucial.

 

When we look at changes people ask for, yes, we have to be wary of unintended effects from their changes but we should also ask ourselves, with the principle of charity: why do they want these changes?

 

If the only answer you can come up with is that people are flocking back to a very old, very flawed game solely because they want to make it easier and dumber, I don't think that's very respectful or constructive or true. Yes, some people want it easier; yes, some people are being pulled along to convenience culture. But heavy randomness is generally seen to be a design choice that reduces the effect of skill, not enhances it.

[Solarverse]

KB is a part of the game. I'm not even sure it's a good idea to be able to change KB to KD at all. I have a 50 EB and wouldn't put onr of those procs anywhere near my powers.

 

Do you scatter mobs when you play, or do you play nice and aim your knock back strategically? If you do scatter mobs (trust me, lots of players do, so I cannot assume anything here since I do not know you) do you get kicked off a lot of teams? I have met other players who come to teams and scatter mobs, and after asking them nicely to not scatter mobs, they ignore the request and continue, suddenly they end up removed from the team.

 

Also, if you do scatter mobs, do you have a group of players that are like-minded that you play regularly with? I am genuinely curious.

 

Some players, you ask nicely and they take it like an insult, "Don't tell me how to play the game!" at this point, you can't even bother trying to explain it to them and remove them. Asking is not telling. However, if ONE player wants to play a different play style than ALL the other players...well, I'm not going to kick all the players but the mob scatter guy, heh.

 

I'm just trying to get an idea of the every day life of the guy who loves knock back. You seem to be a rarity in that thought, heh.

[Judasace]

don't really play with a regular group, just join pugs. I've never been kicked off a team or asked to control my KB even once. I do make an effort to position myself so that, if it's reasonably possible, the KB will send them into a wall and not into other groups of over railings or suck, but a lot of time it's not possible and I just jump into a group and pull my Nova, letting mobs fly everywhere. I also make sure If I attack a mob I follow thorough and kill it, not just send it down a hall at half health and move onto something else. Also given that I have enough global recharge for perma hasten  many of my attacks recharge bear instantly so I can easily kill stuff as it's flying through the air - one of my favorite things to do is hit something into the air and then kill it with snipe before it hits the ground.

[Solarverse]

don't really play with a regular group, just join pugs. I've never been kicked off a team or asked to control my KB even once. I do make an effort to position myself so that, if it's reasonably possible, the KB will send them into a wall and not into other groups of over railings or suck, but a lot of time it's not possible and I just jump into a group and pull my Nova, letting mobs fly everywhere. I also make sure If I attack a mob I follow thorough and kill it, not just send it down a hall at half health and move onto something else. Also given that I have enough global recharge for perma hasten  many of my attacks recharge bear instantly so I can easily kill stuff as it's flying through the air - one of my favorite things to do is hit something into the air and then kill it with snipe before it hits the ground.

 

Sounds like you play alright then. My mian is an Energy Blaster...and I got insanely good at controlling my knock back and using it to my team's advantage. You don't sound like one of those guys who just send mobs flying without a care in the world, lol. You sound like a safe bet to have on a team.