I am done with Brutes

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

Not sure if that involves building differently on the Brute or it emerges from how those doing so build as a group.

I think it’s just that eight people cycling Barrier make armor almost completely unnecessary.

[aethereal]

Just now, Erratic1 said:

The hard mode people I am aware of tend to think as you do from what I have seen. Not sure if that involves building differently on the Brute or it emerges from how those doing so build as a group.

 

My understanding is that basically the DPS check of Hard Mode is in fact high enough that people do want characters to each bring a lot of DPS, and that because of team buffs including rolling Barriers and the bonuses that HM enemies get, the difference between the mitigation of "an indifferently slotted armored class" and a "go for broke maximum mitigation armored class" is de facto very small.

 

But this is all hearsay, I may be missing nuances.

[Maelwys]

16 hours ago, Sancerre said:

the discussion around brute's usefulness is foundationally biased here with regards to brute vs scrapper -- all this chatter about scrapper doing more damage than brute so why bring a brute?  flip the script.  if a scrapper did less damage than brute, why bring a scrapper?  there are four (4) melee ATs here all competing for validation (yes stalkers exist too, not that anyone here seems to care). 

 

in a world where you are chasing META -- if one is 'better' then the other is 'worse'.  period. 

A lot of the time the groupthink boils down to "Scrappers should be STRONGEST, Tankers should be PRETTIEST, Brutes should be both STRONG and PRETTY."

Then at some point the thinker remembers about Stalkers and has to backpeddle a bit so that they can be the REAL strongest.
(Just maybe not against groups. Unless they're Primary X and Secondary Y. Or if it's a Tuesday...)

However in reality there aren't just two desirable and potentially opposing dimensions (personal survivability vs personal damage output) but lots of other things to consider.
Aggro control and debuff/buff capability; at a bare minimum. 

I think it's fair to say that each of the four Melee ATs should be capable of soloing at a reasonable pace; and each of them also ought to be a valuable addition to a team.
However YOU DO NOT NEED TO DEAL THE MOST DAMAGE OR BE THE MOST SURVIVABLE IN ORDER TO BE A VALUABLE ADDITION TO A TEAM.
Defenders are a prime example of this. They do not personally deal the most damage or take the most hits - but they act as a force multiplier; allowing the team as a whole to deal far more damage and/or withstand far more hits.

IMO each of the four melee ATs should simply have something unique which makes them a potentially desirable recruit for someone putting a team together.

CoX is currently lacking a melee AT that acts as a force multiplier (other than very specific VEATs with double leadership auras...) so from what I can tell there is a bit of a gap in the market there (although I'm sure it's not the only one!) which is why I said this:

  

On 7/19/2025 at 8:37 PM, Maelwys said:

I do however think (and have suggested previously) that in order to give Brutes a decent niche it might be a good idea to have their ATOs grant a noteworthy beneficial effect which extends (at least in part) as an AoE to nearby allies... let Tankers be lower-damage aggro magnets (just increase their aggro limit!), and Stalkers and Scrappers be the high-damage damage dealers (stealthy Single-Target and non stealthy All-Purpose), and Brutes can be the middle-men who aren't quite the best at anything but can still hold their own whilst buffing their teammates' damage and survivability a bit.

Altering the dynamic in this manner would allow for different team compositions whilst maintaining similar levels of performance.

As an example: On Four Star Content people tend to bring a Kinetic (for +Damage) and a Tanker (for Aggro Control) whilst spamming endless Barriers. But if Brutes were capable of inflicting a sizable amount of -res debuffs or granting a sizable amount of +damage buffs then a similar level of performance could potentially be achievable by taking that Brute instead of the Tanker and swapping the Kin for a different buff powerset (like Thermal or Marine).
Team variety increases. More characters become "desirable". Merriment ensues.
 

Edited 4 hours ago by Maelwys

[Wavicle]

I just want to throw out there that I think it’s just about completely impossible that the class with the best combination of survivability and damage in the game is also going to be given team buffs.

[Maelwys]

13 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I just want to throw out there that I think it’s just about completely impossible that the class with the best combination of survivability and damage in the game is also going to be given team buffs.

Masterminds? They already have 'em.

[HowlingBlade]

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't using something like Dark for the -toHit, or Rad for -Defense, or Ice Melee for the Ice Patch shenanigans be considering "bringing utility" to the table? Sure, none of them are inherently direct buffs, per se, but all of them are going to help make things "easier" by providing a backend gain? Or, because of the Incarnate system, IO system and ATO system those bonuses are made defunct and irrelevant?

 

Sure, none of the above really bring the best to the table in terms of damage, but they seem to be offering more than just "punch X target to dea...I mean arrested".