A crazy suggestion.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, Forager said:

No, its the fact that it represents what the average, unenhanced power does if it's clicked every time it's available. That's what renders it inaccurate... because that's rarely the circumstances when powers are used.

I thought I was done with this conversation, but you’re wrong… again.

 

PPM does not just work for unenhanced powers, if you slot recharge into a power the chance that the proc fires goes down so that the PPM is still the baseline.

[Forager]

8 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I thought I was done with this conversation, but you’re wrong… again.

 

PPM does not just work for unenhanced powers, if you slot recharge into a power the chance that the proc fires goes down so that the PPM is still the baseline.

 

Lol... ok... wow.

[Rudra]

Nope, I'm putting this back in because it is annoying the hell out of me.

 

 

58 minutes ago, macskull said:

Hi it's me, a person who does not make claims without the receipts to back them up. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

 

On 6/2/2025 at 7:12 PM, Rudra said:

 

 In a game where we can miss consecutively with a maxed out 95% chance to hit triggering Streak Breaker to force a hit.

The Streak Breaker

There is a special feature in the game called the streak breaker. Its purpose is to prevent long streaks of misses, and it works by sometimes forcing an attack to hit automatically. Whether the streak breaker comes into play depends on an attack's expected chance of hitting, how many consecutive misses have happened so far, and what their hit chances were.

This is a direct quote from Cryptic developer Weirdbeard explaining the details. (Just to be clear, when he says "to-hit" here, he means the final chance of hitting.)

Final to-hit : misses allowed

>.9 : 1
.8-.9 : 2
.6-.8 : 3
.4-.6 : 4
.3-.4 : 6
.2-.3 : 8
0 -.2 : 100
Auto-hit powers are not included in the system.
Critters get the benefits of the system as well.
The system does not track each power individually; instead it tracks every miss you make in a row, regardless of power (or target). Otherwise you could have nine different powers, each with a 0.95 to-hit, and if you executed them all in a row you could miss each attack (note a caveat at the bottom of the post regarding this).
[AoE] attacks are considered distinct sequential attacks on indivudual targets for the purpose of the system (so if you [AoE'ed] two targets and had 0.95 to-hit for both, you be guaranteed to hit one of them).

To determine the to-hit used in the table above, you take either the current to-hit, or the worst to-hit in your current miss series, whichever is lower.

 

You know what this means? Streakbreaker allows the character to miss once before it corrects a miss into a hit. What that means? The character with a 90%+ chance to hit has to miss twice, in a row, consecutively, for Streakbreaker to trigger. You see a hit after the miss. If that was a Streakreaker hit though? It means you missed consecutively and that triggered Streakbreaker.

[Indystruck]

You should remove it again.

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

If this is true, then it would indeed make the discussion irrelevant. To quote you though: show it to us.

 

He showed you. What does that screed about streakbreaker have to do with anything?

[Videra]

Just now, battlewraith said:

 

He showed you. What does that screed about streakbreaker have to do with anything?

 

That's just Rudra arguing with the ghosts in the walls again.

[macskull]

41 minutes ago, Forager said:

Lol... ok... wow.

For what it's worth, he's not wrong, and the PPM value of an enhancement does tell you how many times on average a proc will fire in minute assuming you're using the power off cooldown every time. It's just that that's... not very useful information on its own.

 

37 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You know what this means? Streakbreaker allows the character to miss once before it corrects a miss into a hit. What that means? The character with a 90%+ chance to hit has to miss twice, in a row, consecutively, for Streakbreaker to trigger. You see a hit after the miss. If that was a Streakreaker hit though? It means you missed consecutively and that triggered Streakbreaker.

Alright, so we went there despite it being wildly off-topic and your understanding of the system being demonstrably false. You're even contradicting yourself within the same three sentences - in one sentence you say streakbreaker allows one miss before forcing a hit but two sentences later you say you need to miss twice before streakbreaker forces a hit. Which is it? Thankfully, that's really easy to figure out.

 

The numbers in the post you are quoting are the number of misses allowed before streakbreaker forces a hit. If I have a greater than 90% chance to hit, I can miss one time and the streakbreaker will force a hit on the next attack. If you want to test this in game, bring your level 50 into Atlas Park and start throwing single-target attacks at random low level mobs. Eventually you will miss one of those attacks, and the next attack will always be forced to hit by streakbreaker. Just in case you don't want to go ingame and check for yourself, I'll dig through the 100,000+ data points I have saved in combat logs from when I was doing some streakbreaker testing earlier this year. Hell, I'll even send you the log files and the source code for the tool I use so you can check for yourself, if you want.

 

Anyways, here's the results of those:

 

 

If streakbreaker actually needed two misses with a >90% hit rate to trigger, the number of total misses would be double the number of streakbreaker hits. Clearly you can see that's not true. Once again, receipts.

Edited yesterday at 01:42 AM by macskull
Clarity

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

He showed you. What does that screed about streakbreaker have to do with anything?

A different thread in which they misunderstood how streakbreaker worked seems to have leaked into this one.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, macskull said:

A different thread in which they misunderstood how streakbreaker worked seems to have leaked into this one.

This thread, first page.

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This thread, first page.

It would seem so, but that seems like an entirely different thread at this point. Anyways, care to address the facts of the argument, or is the weight of evidence still not enough to convince you?

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, macskull said:

It would seem so, but that seems like an entirely different thread at this point. Anyways, care to address the facts of the argument, or is the weight of evidence still not enough to convince you?

What is left? You showed me I misunderstood Streakbreaker.

 

Edited yesterday at 01:50 AM by Rudra
Edited to change "it" to "Streakbreaker"

[Forager]

9 hours ago, macskull said:

assuming you're using the power off cooldown every time.

 

That's the funny part. They won't address this.

 

It's just such a weird thing to argue. It is just plain false, then they do a bunch of math and post formulas proving it's false... and still argue that it's true.

 

It's an approximation... of an average... using a set of variables that are rarely true... just... how?

 

So I lol. 

[Forager]

9 hours ago, Rudra said:

What is left? You showed me I misunderstood Streakbreaker.

 

 

That. That's left. When someone makes a point you're supposed to address it and either rebut or cede... you know... instead of just trying to think of something else to argue about or going quiet.

 

Edit: assuming the goal is rational discussion 

Edited yesterday at 11:37 AM by Forager

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Forager said:

 

That's the funny part. They won't address this.

 

It's just such a weird thing to argue. It is just plain false, then they do a bunch of math and post formulas proving it's false... and still argue that it's true.

 

It's an approximation... of an average... using a set of variables that are rarely true... just... how?

 

So I lol. 

Well… it’s not false. They are technically correct, but once again as I’ve been pointing out that information on its own isn’t useful.

[Forager]

17 minutes ago, macskull said:

Well… it’s not false. They are technically correct, but once again as I’ve been pointing out that information on its own isn’t useful.

 

When I say false, I'm talking about the assertion that ppm is accurate.

 

That is false.

[macskull]

15 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

When I say false, I'm talking about the assertion that ppm is accurate.

 

That is false.

I understand that, and my point stands.

[Ghost]

Devs should just eliminate all procs 

🤭🤭🤭

[BinaryDust]

Thank you all for the information provided.  I did not know of the outside information.  I feel most of you did not read the post as I was suggesting a change in game.  A way to know if I should make a purchase in game.  I would also point out that the existence of spreadsheets and calculators prove there is confusion about how procs work.  My goal was to improve the game.  I feel like I shouldn't have suggested anything in the suggestion section of the forums.

 

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Ghost]

10 minutes ago, BinaryDust said:

Thank you all for the information provided.  I did not know of the outside information.  I feel most of you did not read the post as I was suggesting a change in game.  A way to know if I should make a purchase in game.  I would also point out that the existence of spreadsheets and calculators prove there is confusion about how procs work.  My goal was to improve the game.  I feel like I shouldn't have suggested anything in the suggestion section of the forums.

 

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to read this.

Don’t take it wrong.

This happens in a lot of suggestion threads, where it takes on a life of its own and morphs into something completely different.  

 

Feel free to make all the suggestions you can come up with!

[biostem]

31 minutes ago, BinaryDust said:

I feel like I shouldn't have suggested anything in the suggestion section of the forums.

You are free to feel however you like, but the truth of the matter is that we are living in a world of near constant online connection, and being expected to do a little online research is not asking for a lot, nowadays.  Making suggestions, and making suggestions where you are unaware of various game resources, (including a wiki linked at the top of these very forums), as well as an in-game help channel where people almost always provide links or other useful advice, (and yes I am aware that people can provide incorrect advice), implies to me that you weren't aware of these resources, then took it as a personal offense when that was pointed out.  It'd be no different than arguing to a bunch of car enthusiasts that you think it'd be really cool if we could monitor RPMs on our dash, and when pointed out there's already a tachometer, arguing that you don't like analog dials and they should just tell you when to shift and into what gear, (and not wanting to use an automatic, either)...

Edited 18 hours ago by biostem

[Rigged]

 

17 hours ago, biostem said:

You are free to feel however you like, but the truth of the matter is that we are living in a world of near constant online connection, and being expected to do a little online research is not asking for a lot, nowadays.  Making suggestions, and making suggestions where you are unaware of various game resources, (including a wiki linked at the top of these very forums), as well as an in-game help channel where people almost always provide links or other useful advice, (and yes I am aware that people can provide incorrect advice), implies to me that you weren't aware of these resources, then took it as a personal offense when that was pointed out.  It'd be no different than arguing to a bunch of car enthusiasts that you think it'd be really cool if we could monitor RPMs on our dash, and when pointed out there's already a tachometer, arguing that you don't like analog dials and they should just tell you when to shift and into what gear, (and not wanting to use an automatic, either)...

 

With respect Biostem, the proc rate system is actually very hard to understand for a lot of people even with the wiki. I had to explain to a friend exactly why proc builds work DESPITE the PPM system and exactly which things increase the proc rate and it still was a pain. You overestimate the number of people can can read (seriously) and the formulae on the page might as well be Sanskrit to those bad at math. In the first place it's already hard enough to explain what PPM is and then explain the modifiers and then tell them "Okay now that you got it, throw all that out the window because these attack speed buffs work differently".