Should thugs stay thugs?

[BjorJlen]

Yes, I agree, it is an interesting thought experiment like I said. Which brings a question to mind.

 

   Is there a link/site anywhere that simplifies each villain group in the game, and states their goals? Like "Take over the world", "Destroy all the heroes forever", "to bring back the 'Old' gods", for examples of goals various villain groups have had throughout comic history? Such a list would certainly help in thinking of ways how, and why, these Villains will interact with such changes. Or if and when they would happen. If such goals align, then maybe such a team-up (even temporarily) could be formed; but if dramatically opposite, then maybe a new war would start? Such as with the battle between the Council & Fifth Column, which you said @Scarlet Shocker.

 

   After all, as Quark and other Ferengi quote from the Rules of Acquisition... "War is good for business (#34) & Peace is good for business (#35)." So one would think such dynamics could at least possibly change every now and then over the course of time. Of course, as such time and resources are limited, as stated above already, it's not really feasible, is it. Of course, such a change is sort of possible in a way. The example being Recluses Victory.

 

   In that PvP zone, Heroes and Villains fight to take over "Atlas Park", and whichever side "wins" (via the goals therein), it changes the entire zone to one side or another. Yes, it was basically a fight between players vs players, and not villain groups, but it shows that the old ass code is there to do such visual changes at least. But imagine if this happened via a "war" between Villain groups instead, with us players (Hero or Villain) stuck right in the middle, trying to save as many people as we can from being collateral damage as it were?

 

   That would be super cool in my mind, as during Live, playing in RV was very much fun generally speaking, until the original Dev's screwed up the balance of PvP powers (lord I still remember the outcry from the players when "Turtling" was at least partially nerfed. But again, the time and resources of our great volunteer Dev's is precious, and I am sure they have other priorities for the game, and us (as it should be). But it is a nice thought experiment, and as always, nice to dream a little dream, of... 🙂

 

"Have no need to Fear, UnderCow is here!" - T

[Sakura Tenshi]

Storywise, I do agree: thugs should be thugs. But this is a situation where gameplay and lore might always find themselves at odds. It'd be a bit unfair to make someone who views their character as 'street level' only allowed to run actual and appropriate content via ouroboros or push them into fighting the same cosmic threats as all the cosmic tier metas. But let's also not forget that this debate was kind of settled back on live in a lot of ways with Freakshow who, cybernetics or not, are really just thugs, still being threats from levels 20 to 50, even in the old City of Villains teaser trailer, the Freedom Phalanx was struggling against Freaks. But then you have other examples in game with the Family having been pushed up to level 50 before the game shuttered, even Skulls were implied to be a growing threat (and why not? Superadyne apparently can do a heck of a lot more than just make someone strong like the Trolls, in lore it's part of how dimensional travel was figured out. It basically seems like a synthetic well of furies in many ways) which seems to be how things are panning out over on the beta server.

 

And in the end, whether something is a 'street thug' or a 'cosmic threat' seems more about how they're written in the grand scheme. In Star Wars: The Old Republic, force users are supposed to be fearsome and powerful opponents in the setting, but of non-force user classes, only the Imperial Agent truly gives the sense of frustrating helplessness and the catharsis of overcoming such opponents, and that's strictly in their class story. Side quests can then treat force users as little more than common mooks for anyone to mow through like B1s from the prequels.

[Skyhawke]

I haven't tested the new stuff on Beta, so I have no clue how the Skulls become high end enemies, but out of the list provided I originally voted "none". Now, however, I'd change that to the Outcasts. They already have powers. There are so many things that are in the games lore that provide for powerups. They could find a way to tap the Well or get hold of some secret super serum or their mutations could react wildly with exposure to who knows what. I wouldn't leave Frostfire in charge, though. Let him have his full redemption finally (hell, make him a Vigilante if not a Hero). Create a new leader for them and make them really powerful. 

[TheMoneyMaker]

The problem I have with Skulls or any other group --thugs or otherwise-- appear in the end game is a lack of progression. Skull content fades in the early levels, and there are no mid- to high-level Skulls, but then there's level 40 to 50 Skulls in Kallisti Wharf? How did that happen? And where were they hiding?

[Forager]

On 6/11/2025 at 9:19 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

Also; who in their right mind would think RIP would have any future given their obvious and abject incompetence at level 1?

 

 

Don't underestimate the power of tax funding.

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, Forager said:

 

Don't underestimate the power of tax funding.

 

you make an excellent point of which there are many real world examples we can call upon even now! 🤣

[Billbailey96]

4 hours ago, Forager said:

 

Don't underestimate the power of tax funding.

Honestly even Lord Recluse doesn't care about the RIPD, he uses them as the bare minimum to keep the peace and maybe serve as a test for up and coming villians. If he wants something done he will get Arachnos troopers to do it. If there is an upgrade to the RIPD it would be Arachnos troopers being sent in as a cover for something. 

[Starhawk32]

On 6/9/2025 at 8:36 AM, bAss_ackwards said:

Thugs should be reformed and reintegrated into society. 🦸‍♀️

Which is what the Zig is for.  You know that the tight security measures they have in place will keep us safe from them until they have reformed.

it's not like low level criminals escape that place every day or anything

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, Starhawk32 said:

it's not like low level criminals escape that place every day 30 minutes or anything

Fixed that for you…

actually, I’m not sure what the delay in the zig breakout event is.

[Billbailey96]

One group that should get some updates for Level 50 is the Lost given that they are part of the Ritiki's infiltration of Paragon 

[Sakura Tenshi]

1 hour ago, Billbailey96 said:

One group that should get some updates for Level 50 is the Lost given that they are part of the Ritiki's infiltration of Paragon 

not really infiltration, I think, more just restoring their numbers. I do find it odd that Rikti are a race if powerful psychics and the lost even use psionic conditioning, but we never hear about them influencing things via mind control.

[Billbailey96]

2 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

not really infiltration, I think, more just restoring their numbers. I do find it odd that Rikti are a race if powerful psychics and the lost even use psionic conditioning, but we never hear about them influencing things via mind control.

Perhaps its a philosophical thing? They considered themselves strong enough on their own to invade the planet before being repulsed by Earth's heroes.

[Skyhawke]

3 hours ago, Billbailey96 said:

One group that should get some updates for Level 50 is the Lost given that they are part of the Ritiki's infiltration of Paragon 

 

Montague told me I cured that lot. What else is he hiding from us? 

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

 

Montague told me I cured that lot. What else is he hiding from us? 

 

Montague told you that you cured a lot but I seen you scratching when you think nobody's looking. You seen how he looks when he gets older?

[Chris24601]

8 hours ago, Billbailey96 said:

One group that should get some updates for Level 50 is the Lost given that they are part of the Ritiki's infiltration of Paragon 

I’ve played Montegue’s arc enough at different levels to know that the reason there are no higher level Lost is the eventually transition into full Rikti.

 

Another point in the Skull’s power up favor is that their leaders actually turn up as part of an objective in New Praetorians arc (you have to destroy an artifact that makes them invulnerable so other Praetorians can take them down somewhere else).

 

That arc was originally 35-40 in the open beta just before the original run got shuttered (bumped to 35-50 on Homecoming), but the point stands that the leaders were tough enough to give named NPCs from incarnate tier content trouble.

 

An easy explanation would be that since the power they have is essentially feeding on death (so sorta mini-Mots) maybe they could have had some ritual to absorb all the deaths that occurred in the fall of Praetoria.

 

And that’s also why you don’t see them at all from low levels until the levels when the Praetorian War start happening. They needed all that death to get the power-up.