The tanker cone change feels terrible, please revert!

[nyttyn]

Most of the harder-to-use Cone attacks felt actually usable and good on tankers, and now they're back to being utterly miserable. Could you please revert this? Or better yet, make the <90 degree cones bigger for every melee AT. 

[Uun]

Page 2 has been on the beta server for 3 weeks. The focused feedback thread on the tanker changes is 20 pages long. Based on player feedback, there were significant modifications to the first iteration and the final version reverted many of the initial nerfs. The cones now have the same dimensions as those attacks do on other ATs.

[FupDup]

2 minutes ago, Uun said:

The cones now have the same dimensions as those attacks do on other ATs.

Yes, that is the problem. Those dimensions suck in a lot of cases, across all ATs. 

[Uun]

3 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Yes, that is the problem. Those dimensions suck in a lot of cases, across all ATs. 

I don't disagree, however the initial version of the patch moving the radius/range buffs from Gauntlet to the cone powers resulted in 20%+ reductions to the base damage of those powers (before the nerf to over-cap damage). 

[Fireburn]

Melee cones have always been a pathetic mockery of "area" attacks. The tanker increased arc was the only thing that made them usable and the only AT that could not treat them as weaker single target powers in disguise.  But as soon as people saw a reduction in damage they scremed OUTRAGE! and so we ended up like this, and for a few tens of hp of damage we are back to stupid attacks.

[WindDemon21]

7 hours ago, nyttyn said:

Most of the harder-to-use Cone attacks felt actually usable and good on tankers, and now they're back to being utterly miserable. Could you please revert this? Or better yet, make the <90 degree cones bigger for every melee AT. 

This is two fold. One, I like the longer range on the cones that always should have had that, so i DO like the new way better. On the other hand though, the angle of most melee cones already should be wider than a lot of them are though, and honestly all melee skills should really be 10ft range especially cones for this reason at a base.

[Vanden]

From where I'm standing, it looks extremely unlikely that Tankers will get those arc buffs back. However, the fact that the buffs were implemented as a power that increased the arc of other powers means that that it should be technically possible to create a new category of enhancements in order to widen cones. These would be different from the old Cone Range enhancements of antiquity. To anyone who wants those wide cones back, I think your best bet is to keep asking for this new category of enhancements to be added.

[WindDemon21]

8 hours ago, Vanden said:

From where I'm standing, it looks extremely unlikely that Tankers will get those arc buffs back. However, the fact that the buffs were implemented as a power that increased the arc of other powers means that that it should be technically possible to create a new category of enhancements in order to widen cones. These would be different from the old Cone Range enhancements of antiquity. To anyone who wants those wide cones back, I think your best bet is to keep asking for this new category of enhancements to be added.

Honestly I'd go further and say that many of the cones should just naturally be wider than they are on all ATs inherently. Melee skills should also be 10ft to start including the cones and aoes again like they used to be. It's dumb that the were ever lowered in the past from that.

[Psyonico]

I don’t really have an opinion on cone arcs, except to say that on my Katana toons, even post patch, I’m regularly hitting 2 enemies with Golden Dragonfly, and that’s a 20degree cone… so if you can’t hit multiple enemies with a 45 or 60 degree cone, the issue is probably not the power.

Edited Monday at 12:58 PM by Psyonico

[Uun]

Melee cones are a bit of a mish mash. Even if you exclude Crowd Control, the arcs range form 45 to 130 degrees. While most have a 7 ft radius, there are quite a few with 8, 9 and 10 ft radii. While it's easy to suggest that narrow cones be made wider or short cones be made longer, damage is based on the power's area factor. When a cone is made wider or longer, in theory the damage will be reduced. This is what happened in the earlier iterations of the tanker cone changes. I think it makes more sense to address cone dimensions on a power by power basis than applying an across the board radius increase to just one AT. 

 

The initial Beta release of p2 transferred the 50% radius increase previously granted by Gauntlet to the melee cone powers. This resulted in a reduction in base damage for targets  1-5, with an additional penalty applied to targets 6-10. The cone radius increase was reverted in Beta Build 6. The 50% arc increase previously granted by Gauntlet was not transferred to the melee cone powers in any of the p2 Beta iterations.

 

[Cones balanced as ST attacks (Head Splitter and Golden Dragonfly) and cones that accept range enhancements are excluded from the list]

[PoptartsNinja]

Isn't Shatter also budgeted as a single target attack?

I'm fine with most cones being standard melee range, but most of the powers with less than a 90 degree arc aren't fun. Shatter's the exception (-ish, that animation time is brutal. You could probably shave a good quarter to half-second off the end of that animation).

 

Psy Blade Sweep and Jacob's Ladder feel awful to use. Heck: half the reason Psi's pretty good on Stalkers is because they don't have access to that albatross. Psi Blade Sweep's animation makes it feel like it should be hitting targets out to 120*-130* arc at a minimum. The animation ends with your arms in the Naruto running 'reverse V' pose, but the psi blade sweep actually hitting a second target feels like a *miracle*, and hitting 3 requires actual divine intervention or a second player and perfectly-timed Fold Space shenanigans.

Jacob's Ladder really should probably be a 30*/15ft that takes range enhancements like Breath of Fire / Frost. It would hit harder if it was. I'd still probably skip it, but it'd be a slightly harder decision.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, PoptartsNinja said:

Isn't Shatter also budgeted as a single target attack?

It may be, but it wasn't mentioned in the Build 5 patch notes where they specifically reverted Head Splitter and Golden Dragonfly. Jacob's Ladder may also be balanced as a ST attack.

[Steampunkette]

On 6/22/2025 at 10:10 PM, Vanden said:

From where I'm standing, it looks extremely unlikely that Tankers will get those arc buffs back. However, the fact that the buffs were implemented as a power that increased the arc of other powers means that that it should be technically possible to create a new category of enhancements in order to widen cones. These would be different from the old Cone Range enhancements of antiquity. To anyone who wants those wide cones back, I think your best bet is to keep asking for this new category of enhancements to be added.

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