What's in a name?

[AlabasterKnight]

So, a little while back, it's been a couple of months, my compatriots and I in our SG were tooling around on Excelsior. We started playing on that server when this all went legit, and you know, the coolness of it's server name giving it an authentic comics sounding name is the reason we chose it. And, judging by server traffic, I guess it's the place to be...

We felt crowded and 'laggy' and well, that as I am sure we can all agree is just no way to live. So we began migrating our toons to Torchbearer because well, a lot less server traffic (ironically, a fitting COH server name there too). Strange things occurred that first day we migrated some toons. We'll chalk it up to zeitgeist and conincidence, but this happened several times since:
In the beginning we were just going to do this as a trial, so we selected some toons, and moved them over.

In our private chat servers while talking about this in real time, we all acknowledged there was a chance we wouldn't get our names on the new server. With that in mind, we would go back immediately after any transfer and recreate our toons as placeholders.
That seemed to work at first, but then the strangeness. 

Several of us have experienced having our names successfully transfer, but then as soon as we returned to remake the toon (the same moments later kinda thing, not very long at all), somehow our names were taken before we could generate a new toon...
Here's a couple of examples:
I was One-Eyed Jack on Excelsior.
I moved the toon to Torchbearer and bummer, had to put a different punctuation - it sucks, but okay, it's a cool name right?
I went back to Excelsior, whipped out a new toon (I knew what to make)... and within ten minutes, I was screwed out of the name on Excelsior. Again with the being forced to use different punctuation... 
I was Arachness on Excelsior.
I moved the toon to Torchbearer and again, bummer, had to put a different punctuation -again, totally sucks, but okay, it's a cool name.
I went back to Excelsior, made out a new toon (again, I knew what to make)... and five minutes later... BAM! I was screwed out of the name on Excelsior again. Again with the being forced to us different punctuation... 

Now I know what your thinking, "boo hoo, tuff titties, etc. etc." cry some moar.
But I don't rightly care what you think about this opinion of my disgust... I'm calling some mild shenanigans. Maybe even a glitch somewhere in the database.

I can live with it to a point, it's just a game. I love playing and I love playing with you guys and enjoying the parks and recs.
I'm just wondering why on God's green earth the dev team hasn't done global account markers so we don't have this stupid name competition, that not only screws a lot of people the right to creatively stoke a concept, but also causes lots of people to throw up their hands and create stupid names that mess with immersion because "all the good names are taken".
Sure it means you can only have the name once on your own account, but if you want the character on another server, you can move it over there. And I really don't care if there's another Arachness out there: I did it first and better (imo of course)and I don't really care what you think.

And a final note:

If you're the kind of person who sees a really neat character I have on one server and then runs over to another server and makes your version of it, I am flattered you liked the idea - the rest of the thought though is that is in fact "stealing" someone else's IP, just because you did it here doesn't change anything.

If you're going to get all sanctimonious and start your squawk box about Marvel, DC, Image or whatever and rant about your limited knowledge of fair use, copyright infringement or other armchair lawyering, then your just a hypocrite.

In real life I publish toons, and if I see one running around I think that'd be cool. The hypocrisy is that you defend the famous ones because you're afraid to challenge the right they have to a concept - which isn't protected in this medium, but then you don't preserve the rights of your fellow players to maintain creative freedom in good taste and hold harmless limited use.

TLDR: Global account tags on our character names (that can remain hidden) so when we make or transfer characters, no one loses anything. Only your own duplicates of your own ideas would ever need the punctuation of shame.
It's something that can certainly be solved, so why don't they?

Edited 23 hours ago by AlabasterKnight

[kelika2]

the short version is global things are super hard to do and what we have is held together by chicken wire and hopes

id love this too but eh

[AlabasterKnight]

Oh and for the record,  I didn't get either of those names until well after Excelsior was very populated, so yes, originality seems to have gotten me first - and if it isn't clear in what I posted: I actually care less who got what Idea and where - you do you. I just want them to fix it, so that when we create, we're not any of us hamstrung on scrapping for a name.

Edited 22 hours ago by AlabasterKnight

[Psyonico]

My understanding is that this would require a modification to the tables that hold character information.  Basically, in databases, tables have “key” columns that help you tie tables together.  
 

in my experience working with databases you can’t modify attributes of key columns, software prevents it from happening to prevent users from breaking stuff too badly. (Incidentally this is also why we haven’t seen the character name limit increased)

 

Anyway, the “solution “ to this is to create a new table with the modified key columns then copy over the data from the original table then point all references to the old table to the new table.

 

its that last part that is the hang-up.  Everything that references the table would need to be modified.  Impossible? No. impractical? Very.

[biostem]

4 hours ago, AlabasterKnight said:

If you're the kind of person who sees a really neat character I have on one server and then runs over to another server and makes your version of it, I am flattered you liked the idea - the rest of the thought though is that is in fact "stealing" someone else's IP, just because you did it here doesn't change anything.

I think you're jumping to conclusions in assuming people are stealing your characters' names, or that you own said names in the sense of them being your IP.  It's more likely that there's either some funky delay or other such obstruction in the way name reservations are handled, or they're just somewhat popular names that others also liked, totally separate from any copying of your own characters or ideas...

 

EDIT:  To add to this, I, personally, go to the destination server, if I am planning on moving a character, and start to create a new character, so I can see if the name is even available.  If it is not, then I'll either expect to change the name if I'm going ahead with the move, or simply won't, and just create a new character...

Edited 18 hours ago by biostem

[Captain Fabulous]

It does seem very VERY odd you would lose those names within minutes. I lost a name due to a move that was maybe 3-4 days and I still thought it strange. Kinda makes you wonder if someone is running a script that keeps testing names until it finds a valid one and then takes it. How else would someone snatch those names in such a short window,, not once but twice? Seems sus. It's easy enough to see who has the names, though you'd need a GM to investigate to see if there appears to be anything fishy going on. This is why if I'm going to move a character I reserve the name on dummy characters on both the current and target server before I do the move.

I came up with a way around having to alter the database that would allow more than one person to have the same name, essentially you'd use a delimiter character and a string in the character name. Then set the game to, in most places, not display the delimiter and string.

For example, you'd have "One-Eyed Jack" and I could have "One-Eyed Jack^1". The client would be modified to not show the ^1 in most places in the game making it look like both those characters had the name "One-Eyed Jack". Since the delimiter and string are in the character name field there would be no alterations to the database other than to allow the use of a symbol in character names. Simple and rather elegant. Is it a perfect solution? No, but I don't think there is a perfect solution. But it's fairly easily doable with very few downsides.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Kinda makes you wonder if someone is running a script that keeps testing names until it finds a valid one and then takes it. How else would someone snatch those names in such a short window,, not once but twice? Seems sus.

Really? Those are rather basic names for characters. I've had names taken from me in less time than that. I've even lost names while I was just random throwing a character together to reserve the name for when I transfer the transferred character back. And how long does it take to just random click AT and powers for a placeholder character that you couldn't care less what it looks like? It means nothing other than at least one other person also had a character (s)he/they wanted that name for. And was probably very surprised (and happy) to find the name available.

 

(Edit: Now, if those names had been something out there like maybe Klex'ar of Vryxlpath or something else obviously made up and possibly unique as a name/concept? And then that name was lost because of a server transfer? Then I could maybe see someone watching the name to take or possibly riffing off the first player's idea. I would still doubt it, but at least it would be more plausible.)

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Rudra

[lemming]

Sorry, had a flashback to Katrina and how many cats came in with the name One-eyed Jack

 

Oddly enough one character I transfered to Everlasting, I meant to have a place holder which I was going to put in case I wanted to transfer them back, and it was taken right after I did the transfer.  (Turns out, I didn't want to transfer back anyway)

 

If you go thru some of the name release talks and previous threads, it's a DB issue that would take too much work.  I think this was debated on live as well.

[TheMoneyMaker]

Isn't One-Eyed Jack the heroic identity of one of the Loud House kids in one episode where they all take on card-themed personas?

 

Here's a fun experiment to try. Go back to Excelsior and instead of trying to create a new character, just try to rename an existing character with the taken name. If the name is taken, it will tell you so, but it might give you a message telling you that it's not an appropriate name, which occurs if you try to use no-no words but also if you try to take something that's been trademarked and put on a list. Superman isn't technically inappropriate, but you can't have it. So it's possible that between the time you created these characters and when you tried to move them, the names were added to the list of blocked names.

 

If that's not the case and you get a message saying that someone already has that name, you can always log in and use the /getglobalname One-Eyed Jack command to find out who took it and ask "What's up bro?"

 

[MTeague]

It's possible that transferring a character "holds" the name on the original server, for a short period of time.  Whether that's a bug or intentional, I couldn't say.  But if the name was locked out only mere moments after the transfer, I find this more plausible than the idea that someone was frothing-at-the-mouth eagerly trying to nab your names at the very moment of the transfer.  But are possible. But the act of transferring having a short-term hold on the name seems more plausible to me.  Maybe it's insurance to allow you to transfer back and still get your name after a short window? 

 

I will say , though: 

15 hours ago, AlabasterKnight said:

And a final note:

If you're the kind of person who sees a really neat character I have on one server and then runs over to another server and makes your version of it, I am flattered you liked the idea - the rest of the thought though is that is in fact "stealing" someone else's IP, just because you did it here doesn't change anything.

If you're going to get all sanctimonious and start your squawk box about Marvel, DC, Image or whatever and rant about your limited knowledge of fair use, copyright infringement or other armchair lawyering, then your just a hypocrite.

 

I think this is silly.  Names have always been server specific, both on Homecoming and on Live.  If you wanted to somehow "copyright" a name on All Servers, well, make a character with that name, on all servers, before anyone else does.  Your point also completely overlooks independent simultaneous creation. For instance, I recently created an Ice/Ice brute on Everlasting named "Cold Fury".  Did I copy that name from something I saw elsewhere?  No.  Am I under any illusion that since 2019, I'm the first person to ever use that name on any server? No.  It's possible that, with the name-unlock policy, the name had been in use by a dormant player, and I snagged it because a non-50 hadn't logged in in a very long time.  Or, it's possible it had never existed on Everlasting, but had existed on three other servers long before now.  There is no way I, in the character creator, could ever know, so I completely reject the idea this action is somehow "stealing"  anything if the name existed anywhere else. 

 

Could something like CharacterName@GlobalName be done?  @Psyonico illustrates the file conversion that would have to happen, and outlines the scale of coding changes needed to go with it. Not fun, but possible.  Should it be done is an entirely seperate question, and I very much doubt there is universal agreement on this one.  I'd bet many players would feel disappointed if they joined a team as "Firehawk" only to find six other players with the same name on the same team. Your identity would be diluted. 

 

Finally, I would say if something like CharacterName@GlobalName or CharacterName@Tag were ever done, the full name should be shown at all times.  So that if someone is a complete jerk in chat, or is abusive and crosses the lines in the terms of service, it's immediately clear to everyone exactly which "Firehawk" or "Superdude" was doing so. Hiding the tag obscures that and makes it much too easy for innocents to be tarred the offendng player's actions. 

 

My $0.02 USD.  But it's all up to the devs anyway, I get no vote. 

[biostem]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

Could something like CharacterName@GlobalName be done?

This is what Champions Online does, and IMHO, it's awful, because there is no sense of "exclusivity";  Sure, you still get "One Eyed Jack" vs "One-Eyed Jack" vs "0ne Eyed jack", etc, but it's not the same as 50 characters running around with the exact same name...