Ice control

[Ukase]

On retail, there I was in Croatoa, I think. I was on a blaster, my friend was on a scrapper. I found an ice controller to help us out. This was way back, maybe 2004? 03? I remember seeing ice slick. It saved my from my ineptitude back then fairly often. 

So, in the Abyss, after getting a ribosome and a teammate getting a golgi, I joked that I was going to make a character using nothing but HO/d-syncs for enhancements. 

At the time, I thought "Ice/Dark".  Two pets, should be fine. Now, I know I'm going to PL this character, and then play it. I probably won't even worry about accolades. 

Just for fun. So, I open up mids. 

Seriously? How does a controller play this game and get levels? This thing has almost no attacks. A lot of mitigation, but even with procs - which I'm not going to use for the reason mentioned above, well, I guess that explains why I don't see ice controllers around that often. 

Something should be done, though. This just doesn't seem equitable compared to the offensive juggernaut of illusion and other sets. 

And yes, I know on a team, the buff/debuffs are pretty nice, but I don't feel like this character is going to be a great teammate with the lack of offensive power. 

[Psyonico]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

Something should be done, though. This just doesn't seem equitable compared to the offensive juggernaut of illusion and other sets

Ice is fairly comparable to Earth Control in terms of attacks, but both are far better at actually controlling groups than their more offensive counterparts.

 

Ice got a make over a few pages back, but it is still very much a "team controller" set.

[MonteCarla]

Yep.

Ice, Earth and Electric Control are all very low damage.

All have the two single target powers (Hold and Immobilise) doing basic damage, and an AoE immobilise doing very light damage. 

 

You can add damage procs - like Cold Snap takes 3 of them.

You can take Arcane Bolt or other power pools attacks, or wait for your Pet and Epic Pool damage powers.

 

I've played Ice Control once with the express intention of making a low damage Controller who'd need a team to get anything done.

And I feel that's just how it should be - some powersets should lend themselves to team-centric builds.

[evetsleep]

1 hour ago, MonteCarla said:

Yep.

Ice, Earth and Electric Control are all very low damage.

All have the two single target powers (Hold and Immobilise) doing basic damage, and an AoE immobilise doing very light damage. 

 

 

Everything you said here was accurate however with the most recent page the changes to controller pets combined with the gremlins getting more attacks has resulted in a noticeable improvement on damage output.  I was soloing when it first landed with my electric/sonic troller and the kill speed was dramatically improved with the change to gremlins (at least to me) and since I can control the it's a much more fun set, even solo.

[evetsleep]

11 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Ice got a make over a few pages back, but it is still very much a "team controller" set.

 

I'm still annoyed that you can't put the ice minstral set in Jack to utilize that cold damage proc.  I was really hoping they'd fix that.

[Ukase]

Well, the task I've set for myself is pretty silly. Even the name is silly, and potentially offensive. "Bad HOs", an ice/dark controller. 

It's really strange slotting, because I've never played Ice control before. I keep having to go into enhancement management to see what they'll take, so I can determine the appropriate number of slots. 

I've a feeling, using HOs only, this may be the first character where I feel I have too many slots to fill. Maybe I should have made it a HEAT. 

[Ukase]

For the curious and bored - here's the build. Even using trash HOs, this is going to be expensive, requiring a lot of micros and some HO that's never dropped in any hami raid I've been a part of. I can only assume they're Lady Grey specific. Not many of them on the AH, either. Stereocilla is the name of them. 
 

Bad HOs - Controller (Ice Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd

[Uun]

I had an Ice/TA controller back on live. Even with OSA, it was painfully slow to defeat anything. If I was to build an Ice controller today, I'd be inclined to pair it with Marine or Storm which provide a good amount of additional damage. Alternatively, try Ice on a dominator. 

[tjknight]

My suggestins are below. These are things I've used on a low level Controller. At high levels 40 to 50 I don't find I need them. 

 

Power Pool Attacks (Sorcery) 

Get Arcane Bolt 

Put Enflame on Pet 

 

Temporary Powers
- Hand Grenades

- Stun Grenade 

- Revolver 

- Backup Radio

 

Veteran Prestige Powers

- Sands of Mu

- Ghost Slaying Axe

- Nemesis Staff 

- Black Wand

[SableShrike]

Don’t sleep on Sleep or Fear powers now.  They both have been changed to now trigger Containment.

 

With this patch it just got a lot easier for Ice and Mind to get Containment.  And your Jack Frost will sometimes be doing Containment damage too.

[Riverdusk]

7 hours ago, evetsleep said:

 

Everything you said here was accurate however with the most recent page the changes to controller pets combined with the gremlins getting more attacks has resulted in a noticeable improvement on damage output.  I was soloing when it first landed with my electric/sonic troller and the kill speed was dramatically improved with the change to gremlins (at least to me) and since I can control the it's a much more fun set, even solo.

 

Yes, electric is actually decent damage now.  Actually came out near the top in the recent testing @BRADICAL did and posted.   It does rely on pets and procs though, and a good secondary.   

 

Relying on just HO's is going to limit things for sure.

 

I do think the early game (especially pre-pet) is what can really be painful, for most controllers.  Myself I do rely on temp/prestige powers a lot during those levels as @tjknightsuggested.  Although they didn't list my absolutely favorite one, plasmatic taser.  I can't imagine leveling a lower level controller without it now and the quick aoe damage it gives (it is basically an energy torrent clone).   Most controllers have the advantage of being able to control the knockback it does, so you can even use it in groups.

 

 

 

[JayboH]

10 hours ago, MonteCarla said:

Ice, Earth and Electric Control are all very low damage.

Didn't they just get done buffing damage in Electric Control?

[Ukase]

Well, while I think my idea is super silly, the market just isn't ready for it yet. There simply aren't enough of a certain HO available on the market to build this character as planned. So, my choices are to bid and wait..or to scrap the project. 

Hopefully, just my posting will encourage our dev team to at least take a look at the drop rates of certain HO/D-syncs. 

[JayboH]

10 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Well, while I think my idea is super silly, the market just isn't ready for it yet. There simply aren't enough of a certain HO available on the market to build this character as planned. So, my choices are to bid and wait..or to scrap the project. 

Hopefully, just my posting will encourage our dev team to at least take a look at the drop rates of certain HO/D-syncs. 

...wish Winter set pieces weren't so insufferably difficult to get also for that matter

[Ukase]

55 minutes ago, JayboH said:

...wish Winter set pieces weren't so insufferably difficult to get also for that matter

So, they are expensive for the average player. But, it's not impossible to get them. 100 RMs each? 

Consider an hour in the abyss. 5 runs, if you grab the merits each time, that's 240 reward merits. And..well, if you do it every other day, you could leave the reward unclaimed and get 280 merits for 5 runs. 

What I've done is create characters specifically to buff the league, and they rotate duties. If there's low attendance, sometimes I can swap and snag an extra 40. 
I suppose it depends on your definition of insufferable. As for me, my characters can snag those out of email because I've been around since before they put those winter packs on sale for 10M and bought a bunch. Still have some I haven't opened. 

[Ukase]

Update. 
One of the sillier things I've done. 
I made an ice/dark controller again, without constraints, because I wanted to get a feel for what the character would actually play like. 

Now, Bad HOs is sitting in Ouro at level 50, unslotted. It's never killed a thing. 

But Apache Frost is level 38, and resting in RWZ as I've come to realize that Arctic Air and Cold Snap are fairly worthless. 

I was in an MSR, and had just chosen Arctic Air because I felt like I might finally have enough end recovery to use it a little bit. And I was running out of endurance even with all the buffs in the MSR. So, I'm going to respec and get rid of it. Seems a shame, because thematically, it would make sense. But the end cost is 1.04/s - and that's the highest end cost for a toggle I think I've ever seen. 

Does anyone use this power? Is it just for the opener, then you toggle it off? That's what I'm thinking. But, Glacier works just fine. If I get a bit more recharge, it'll be up every group. 
The damage is ...well, poor. And Jack Frost is not the best pet. I tell him to attack my target, and he'll run back 40 feet to blast him instead of blasting him at 5 feet. 

Still, the combo with dark is nice. Dark is just a great secondary for the controller. It's odd to me that with all the slotting choices for dark servant, pet enhancements aren't one of them. I figure tar patch is debuff enough, I'm using him as a mule set for Gravitational Anchor. 

I've got Fade and Soul Absorption perma. 

Ball Lightning...I can proc it, or I can just go with the full power transfer set. The extra recharge really doesn't help me. But I was thinking of using an alpha that boosts recharge, so it would potentially gum up the proc effectiveness anyway. 

I'm sure I've overlooked something. I'm tempted to forgo the teleport pool for the fight pool, and I currently have sorcery in lieu of leadership, but Spirit Ward on a pet? I've seen the videos - but my secondary doesn't really help Jack out much. If I were Natty, with the tohit and damage boost, I could see it. But what's the point? He's not going to hit any harder with it. And I'm only running at 0/8 or +1/8, depending on the mobs. I could go higher, but the bosses take too long to kill as it is. And, when I get mezzed, Spirit Ward toggles off, and I have to take time in the midst of the chaos to put it back. I just don't see any real benefit for the pet. And, I'd lose out on the leadership pool, which is giving me 15% global recharge. Sorcery is just not that great of a pool with Rune of Protection being so bad with the horrific recharge. And having to turn on fly before you can teleport...that's just lame in my eyes. I gave it a shot on my plant/dark controller. Just not a fan. 

Apache Frost - Controller (Ice Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Does anyone use this power?

I use both Arctic Air and Cold Snap on my Ice/Savage dom (they work a lot better with Domination). 

[Psyonico]

FYI: AA costs the same as Hot Feet.

 

AA used to be the crown jewel of ice control.  Now, with Cold Snap, Deep Sleep, and adaptive recharge it is less necessary, but its still good control.  Put the contagious confusion proc in there for shiggles.

[Ukase]

I appreciate the suggestions. I'll head to brainstorm and see how different uses of AA plays out. 

 

9 hours ago, Psyonico said:

FYI: AA costs the same as Hot Feet.

I've never used Hot Feet. Hot Feet should be available for brutes, tanks and scrappers - the characters that stay in melee. The way my characters tend to hop about, it's not a good fit. 

Still, I'm going to go back to the drawing board, and try to give your suggestions a chance. I think my way is probably a little too boring anyway. 



Edit: 

On Mids, I have a rule of thumb. The recovery metric has to be roughly 2 units over the end drain. 

With Fade and soul absorption off                                     With Fade and SA on 
    

 

This build is nuts. I'm not even trying to build for resistance or defense.  (vengeance is not on) 

The problem will be if the flow of battle gets mucked up somehow and there are no mobs with souls to absorb. But I guess I can turn the toggle off if that happens. Exemplaring might also be an issue. Time will tell. 

Edited Tuesday at 11:50 AM by Ukase

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

I've never used Hot Feet. Hot Feet should be available for brutes, tanks and scrappers - the characters that stay in melee. The way my characters tend to hop about, it's not a good fit. 

Your controllers and blasters don't stay in melee? 😁 I've got a Fire/Nature controller that stacks Hot Feet with Entangling Aura. Endurance management is challenging, but it's pretty darn effective.

[Ukase]

I've never taken Entangling Aura on any of my natties. And I like them just the way they are! Mind you - the only content the natties do are hami raids. I've leveled one up organically, the others in a farm. On the last run, I don't choose a reward, so I need to have a different character to use the following day to get those extra 40 reward merits. Yet, when I exemp to pursue badges and such on them, they do very well. Solo'd all the red side tfs but Aeon just fine. 

As for my blasters, my fire/mc blasters spend a lot more time in melee than my ice/ice. But they all go in and out of melee. That's just part of being a blaster. Not "Blapper" which is as clear a misnomer as I can find, for all blasters are blappers, and all blappers are blasters. So why even have the word? A ranged blaster is just a one-dimensional blaster. But that's another topic.
As for the controller...well, I'm no expert. My least played blaster has logged more time than all of my controllers put together, probably. So far, with this ice/dark...glacier makes going into melee necessary. No idea why it was designed like that...but it is what it is. Fortunately, shadow fog lets me do what I need to do before the npcs know what's up. Usually. It's the first character I've played where I thought group fly might be worth taking. But I quickly suppressed that thought. Taking on the seeds of hamidon in First ward..and all my dps was on the ground...ugh. But other than the MSR drop ship and the arachnos flyer, there's no other instances I can think of where flight might be useful.