Expanding Praetorian Content

[El D]

50 minutes ago, Darmian said:

And yet my Gold Side only Resistance character has taken part in the iTrials.

 

(Ok, so has my Loyalist!  But that was so I could play something rather than the thematic reasons my Resistance character had)

 

That players can subvert the intended, canon progression of the story isn't indicative of any story extension in Praetoria beyond what exists, it's indicative of the devs allowing the small handful of 'perma-Goldside' characters some path to participate in endgame content rather than have those characters entirely locked out of a large amount of level 50 content. The jump to Primal Earth was the hard stop 'this goes no further' point for Praetoria for a reason and the overall story of the game has long since moved past that.

 

The ability for perma-Goldsiders to participate in iTrials is for player convenience. It has no bearing on narrative.

[Darmian]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm guessing it formed in Pocket D? Look, I'm not going to keep arguing in circles. I'm for the story. The story does not have Praetorian characters see the fall of Praetoria until after they leave Praetoria. Players have workarounds to get to level 50 as pure gold siders, and more power to those that choose to use them. The Praetorian story line, from the perspective of Praetorians, does not reach the fall of Praetoria. Praetorian characters, in the Praetorian character story line, are only just becoming aware of Primal Earth characters and the impending invasion. There is no gold side Incarnate content. There isn't even any gold side start of the Praetorian-Primal Earth conflict content. There is no gold side fall of Praetoria story at this time. I would much rather any expanded Praetoria content get caught up before we start looking at what happens after. (And any added content for gold siders not contradict existing lore in the iTrials and late game arcs.)

I'm actually not disagreeing with any of that.

 

Frankly, as a dedicated Goldside player I'd like to see the level ranges for each of the 5 zones expanded so that you can't just outlevel contacts before you've noticed; I'd like more Pre War Material here and there that builds more into the coming War ( much how Clone Wars works for Star Wars in some ways).  And finally I'd like to see the Undergrounds of First Ward and Night Ward actually exist beyond a few instances in missions.  I mean the UG iTrial takes place SOMEWHERE, and it isn't in Nova/ImperialNeutropolis. 

 

So us Gold players have workarounds. And I'm 100 per cent agreeing that things should be caught up.  

 

And now the thing that even I, someone whose Main is 100% Loyalist Gold and who adores the story of Praetoria, even I say.  If I had been an OG Dev for Retail I would NEVER have made Goldside and just updated the existing Praetorian factions.  I'd have put all that work into the Rogue Isles to make IT better.

 

But we are where we are.

 

And if I ever get the maps for it I'll finish off my last set of Pre War Praetorian AE trilogies.

 

Best.

[Rudra]

I should also point out that at the time of characters doing the Last Bastion arc from Number Six, there are no Loyalists or Resistance. Both sides ceased to exist when Praetoria City itself fell to Hamidon. (Which was the first target Hamidon went after when he got tired of Tyrant failing to show that humanity could be redeemed.) So even with Number Six and Last Bastion, your pure gold side character would have to choose to side with a new faction and forevermore cease to be a Loyalist or Resistance. So you would still have to choose to become a Primal Earth faction. (Just either UPA or New Praetorian. And work alongside both former Loyalist and former Resistance members.) So there are additional snags in progressing pure gold side content. (Which is why I am guessing that current Praetoria is basically defined as experiencing Praetoria in the past. Which is still the gold side characters' present, so no, that doesn't count as time travel.)

[Darmian]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I should also point out that at the time of characters doing the Last Bastion arc from Number Six, there are no Loyalists or Resistance. Both sides ceased to exist when Praetoria City itself fell to Hamidon. (Which was the first target Hamidon went after when he got tired of Tyrant failing to show that humanity could be redeemed.) So even with Number Six and Last Bastion, your pure gold side character would have to choose to side with a new faction and forevermore cease to be a Loyalist or Resistance. So you would still have to choose to become a Primal Earth faction. (Just either UPA or New Praetorian. And work alongside both former Loyalist and former Resistance members.) So there are additional snags in progressing pure gold side content. (Which is why I am guessing that current Praetoria is basically defined as experiencing Praetoria in the past. Which is still the gold side characters' present, so no, that doesn't count as time travel.)

Hmm, I tentatively disagree here.  First Ward and Night Ward make it very plain that whatever faction you're from, it doesn't matter.  Whatever side you picked in Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis, that's irrelevant once you get to First Ward.  And yet mechanically you're still that faction. The choices you make now are yours alone. So you're facing off against D.U.S.T. and Calvin's Resistance at the same time, while generally trying to make life better for the Elten Towners.  Or caught up in the schemes of the Black Knights and Diabolique.  Again, whether Loyalist or Resistance it doesn't matter.  And you don't have to choose Blue/Red to do it. 

 

At the end of the day I think we are, to borrow a phrase, "violently agreeing"!  It's just that the narrative gets damn confusing at times.  And I have definitely done a deep dive into the timeline to sort things out for my own edification.  And even after that I still scratch my head and think "wait, what?"

 

 

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Hmm, I tentatively disagree here.  First Ward and Night Ward make it very plain that whatever faction you're from, it doesn't matter.  Whatever side you picked in Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis, that's irrelevant once you get to First Ward.  And yet mechanically you're still that faction. The choices you make now are yours alone. So you're facing off against D.U.S.T. and Calvin's Resistance at the same time, while generally trying to make life better for the Elten Towners.  Or caught up in the schemes of the Black Knights and Diabolique.  Again, whether Loyalist or Resistance it doesn't matter.  And you don't have to choose Blue/Red to do it. 

 

At the end of the day I think we are, to borrow a phrase, "violently agreeing"!  It's just that the narrative gets damn confusing at times.  And I have definitely done a deep dive into the timeline to sort things out for my own edification.  And even after that I still scratch my head and think "wait, what?"

 

 

There is a difference. Let's use First Ward as our example. When you get to First Ward, you are told that they don't care if you are Loyalist or Resistance, or if you are Primal Hero or Villain. Only that you are there and willing to help. And yet, there is a Loyalist only contact and there is a Resistance only contact. So the factions are both still there, just given more freedom in their activities because they are operating in what is considered lost/abandoned territory.

 

In Night Ward, alignment doesn't matter regardless because all your operations and contacts are not in Praetoria. You are in the spirit world. Where First Ward and the spirit world have basically collapsed into each other, and the drive is to stop any further merging. So Primals running missions in Night Ward and Praetorians running missions in Night Ward are not even in Praetoria. Yes, you can cross over between First Ward and  Night Ward at those paths, but you are still very much crossing over from one dimension to another.

 

With the fall of Praetoria, Loyalists and Resistance cease to exist as factions. Forced into Primal Earth for survival, not to try and prevent the war since the war is over now, just for survival, former allegiances fall apart. Instead, you see former Loyalists and Resistance banding together along more Primal ideologies. The New Praetorians trying to show Primal Earth that Praetorians aren't evil and doing heroic acts. And the UPA. This is where the story stands. This the point pure gold side characters should be moving towards if they don't want to transition to Primal Earth as a Hero or Villain before the war. And this still takes away a gold side character's Loyalist/Resistance standing.

[Darmian]

As a further aside, I'd posit possible Praetorian access to the Shadow Shard. Since (a) the events currently there all take place before the fall of Praetoria, and (b) narratively Praetorians can get there.  Alas no player Praetorians but both Mayhem and Malaise appear as antagonists in Faathim the Kind's TF.  It would make more sense than shoehorning them in in other places.

 

As for moving forward, I'd advocate a series of arcs set in Primal that you can only get in game if you were Praetorian (of whatever faction) since you would be dealing with fallout from Refugees, the UPA and so on on a personal history basis.  To alleviate things ANYONE should be able to do them via Ouro, in the same way that Primal characters can access the Pre-War Praetorian content normally shut off to them.

 

Sadly, however good my or your ideas are, we have enough difficulty getting more people to play Redside, never mind Gold, so most of the suggestions here will remain just that.  The most we can really hope for is the release of missing Praetorian maps to the AE where players can "fill in the gaps" in their own way.

 

Best.

 

 

[sponazgul]

On 7/20/2025 at 10:10 AM, raven9864 said:

I don't know how Gold Side is utilized on other servers, but (at least to my observations) its a ghost town on Everlasting.

There's a lot of great story potential in it, and its kind of a shame to see so much effort put into what is basically a starter zone that no one starts in. 

 

I know the First and Night Wards kind of continue things, but honestly the content in them has very little feel of the Praetorian experience. I've asked about Letting Praetorians expand into the co-op zones like RWZ (and co-op zones ONLY) and got trolled hard for it in various channels in the game. So, I'm putting it to Devs. Access to Ouroboros would at the very least make sense. Why can Heroes and Rogues use it but not Praetorians. I mean it IS time travel.

It would give people who (for whatever reasons they call their own) that want a way to keep a Loyalist or Resistance tag a way to get to 50 that doesn't involve AE farming in Pocket D, and keep a praetorian designation. I don't think it is going to break any story lore, and might help get a neglected point of play experience more utilized.

Please don't troll me. Its a serious question and the answer asks very little to be put into action. (time travel, remember?)

PS-this would also facilitate getting Praetorian characters to open up Incarnate slots which they already built in, but with no real way to get to get to that point except AE farming in PD.

Thank you for your time.

as someone who has gotten a few characters to level 50 on Goldside (and kept them there just because) I support any new Goldside content.

 

the mapserver event was a huge help in getting all of the incarnate slots unlocked on my Loyalist, and luckily there are people who run incarnate trials out of Echo Plaza, where my Praetorian can go.

 

the grind from 45 to 50 is pretty bad - I honestly wish that there was an access to the Labyrinth of Fog from the Night Ward mansion that a Praetorian could use and join up with a league there hunting fogs and the Minotaur.

[Ukase]

For me, it absolutely doesn't matter to me if Praetorians can access any zone. So what? We all know there are people behind each avatar. We all know that a lot of people would rather team than solo. So, if they get bored of the solo play on gold, let them access any zone they wish after a little visit to null, at any level. Like what zone the OP wants to go to is going to have any impact on my play or anyone else's play? Unless they take a spot in an MSR or Hami Raid, like what difference does it make? 

We're all people behind the avatars. This alignment business, in spite of the lore, is just silly. I like the merits. (which I only rarely pursued before Mark & Recall) But the lack of access to this zone or that...just silly and unnecessary. 

Now, from an RP perspective, this is a role the player chooses to play. That role is self-limiting. I have no sympathy for a self-inflicted limitation. But if my vigilante can go to Ouro and run through the praetorian arcs, why can't the praetorian character run through the praetorian arcs? Or the hero or villain arcs? Because of lore? The only lore is the lore the player reads. Those rules don't need to apply to characters who aren't familiar with that story. I should be forbidden from playing a portion of the game with my character because of your lore? Or CoH's lore? We've already broken the lore with a number of QoL features. I see no harm in one or many more. (within reason) 

That said, I've no idea what kind of time or trouble this would take, but no argument from me as long as nothing breaks. 

[BrandX]

On 7/20/2025 at 4:36 PM, Darmian said:

I'm actually not disagreeing with any of that.

 

Frankly, as a dedicated Goldside player I'd like to see the level ranges for each of the 5 zones expanded so that you can't just outlevel contacts before you've noticed; I'd like more Pre War Material here and there that builds more into the coming War ( much how Clone Wars works for Star Wars in some ways).  And finally I'd like to see the Undergrounds of First Ward and Night Ward actually exist beyond a few instances in missions.  I mean the UG iTrial takes place SOMEWHERE, and it isn't in Nova/ImperialNeutropolis. 

 

So us Gold players have workarounds. And I'm 100 per cent agreeing that things should be caught up.  

 

And now the thing that even I, someone whose Main is 100% Loyalist Gold and who adores the story of Praetoria, even I say.  If I had been an OG Dev for Retail I would NEVER have made Goldside and just updated the existing Praetorian factions.  I'd have put all that work into the Rogue Isles to make IT better.

 

But we are where we are.

 

And if I ever get the maps for it I'll finish off my last set of Pre War Praetorian AE trilogies.

 

Best.

 

This is what I would love!  Don't need more content, but would be nice to be hard to out level content.

 

I accidently out leveled the first Warden solo mission in Nova and had to wait till level 15 to Ouro it.

 

Only have 1 pure gold sider (lvl 50+3) but it's on Everlasting so access to all the itrials hasn't always been easy 😛  Would love to get in on more itrials to get those itrial badges.

[Darmian]

15 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

This is what I would love!  Don't need more content, but would be nice to be hard to out level content.

 

I accidently out leveled the first Warden solo mission in Nova and had to wait till level 15 to Ouro it.

 

Only have 1 pure gold sider (lvl 50+3) but it's on Everlasting so access to all the itrials hasn't always been easy 😛  Would love to get in on more itrials to get those itrial badges.

I'm on Reunion and we're tiny in comparison to Everlasting, however all our iTrials are held in Echo Plaza every Sunday so a brief trip across might help those badges.  Not sure of the time or time difference but easy to ask.

[Darmian]

54 minutes ago, Ukase said:

For me, it absolutely doesn't matter to me if Praetorians can access any zone. So what? We all know there are people behind each avatar. We all know that a lot of people would rather team than solo. So, if they get bored of the solo play on gold, let them access any zone they wish after a little visit to null, at any level. Like what zone the OP wants to go to is going to have any impact on my play or anyone else's play? Unless they take a spot in an MSR or Hami Raid, like what difference does it make? 

We're all people behind the avatars. This alignment business, in spite of the lore, is just silly. I like the merits. (which I only rarely pursued before Mark & Recall) But the lack of access to this zone or that...just silly and unnecessary. 

Now, from an RP perspective, this is a role the player chooses to play. That role is self-limiting. I have no sympathy for a self-inflicted limitation. But if my vigilante can go to Ouro and run through the praetorian arcs, why can't the praetorian character run through the praetorian arcs? Or the hero or villain arcs? Because of lore? The only lore is the lore the player reads. Those rules don't need to apply to characters who aren't familiar with that story. I should be forbidden from playing a portion of the game with my character because of your lore? Or CoH's lore? We've already broken the lore with a number of QoL features. I see no harm in one or many more. (within reason) 

That said, I've no idea what kind of time or trouble this would take, but no argument from me as long as nothing breaks. 

I'm half and half with you on this!

I'm someone who loves the Lore.  And I'm quite accepting of the limits that places on the limitations I have placed on myself by choosing to play a Gold.  It is what it is.  But there are a bunch of stories in the Ouro that frankly Golds really should be able to partake in, not to mention some trials or zones.  The ITF for instance.  90 percent of the player pop just go to Night Ward's Midnight Mansion to get access to Cimerora, yet Praetorians, whose Mansion it is, can't go there?  Stick a crystal in the hallway and let us!  Hand wave a thing!  It's pre Cole anyway so supposedly before any divergence of the timeline.  The Shadow Shard?  As I said above, Mayhem and Malaise can get there but we can't?  Well, why not?  No reason. 

[Chris24601]

The biggest disconnect in the Goldside experience right now is, frankly, the i24 New Praetorian and associated RedSide arcs which unlock at 30 and yet in terms of timing occur absolutely after all the 40-50 portal corps arcs and the Incarnate TFs, iTrials, Dark Astoria, and Belladonna and Number Six arcs.

 

My suggestion would be just a flat-out reordering of the Praetorian-related content.

 

Leave the iTrials as they are, but do the following.

 

- Move the portal exit point for leaving Praetoria for Goldsiders from some empty warehouse in Paragon/the Isles to the Vanguard base in the RWZ.

 

- Move Tina Macintyre to the Vanguard base, and make her a contact for all factions with a level range of 35+. Move any non-portal missions that were on Peregrine Island to the Vanguard portal room.

 

- Tina introduces Maria Jenkins who is also in the Vanguard base and coded 40+.

 

- Maria introduces a contact level 45+ that offers a single-player non-incarnate scaled story arc version of the Praetorian iTrials (skipping Dilemma Diabolique) up to just before the Magisterium trial.

 

- That contact introduces Belladonna’s arc rescaled to level 45+ and adding a single-player version of the Magisterium trial for its finale.

 

- That contact introduces either Marchand or the Mr. G arc depending on alignment, but now at 45+.
 

- Leave Number Six as Incarnate content.

 

This creates a fairly clear path of the original Praetorian content (1-20) > First Ward (20-29), Night Ward (30-34), Tina (35+), Maria (40+), solo Praetorian War (45+), Belladonna (45+), New Praetorians/Mr. G (45+) and Number Six (50) as the complete story of Praetoria that a Praetorian could experience basically in order.