Expanding Praetorian Content

[El D]

50 minutes ago, Darmian said:

And yet my Gold Side only Resistance character has taken part in the iTrials.

 

(Ok, so has my Loyalist!  But that was so I could play something rather than the thematic reasons my Resistance character had)

 

That players can subvert the intended, canon progression of the story isn't indicative of any story extension in Praetoria beyond what exists, it's indicative of the devs allowing the small handful of 'perma-Goldside' characters some path to participate in endgame content rather than have those characters entirely locked out of a large amount of level 50 content. The jump to Primal Earth was the hard stop 'this goes no further' point for Praetoria for a reason and the overall story of the game has long since moved past that.

 

The ability for perma-Goldsiders to participate in iTrials is for player convenience. It has no bearing on narrative.

[Darmian]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm guessing it formed in Pocket D? Look, I'm not going to keep arguing in circles. I'm for the story. The story does not have Praetorian characters see the fall of Praetoria until after they leave Praetoria. Players have workarounds to get to level 50 as pure gold siders, and more power to those that choose to use them. The Praetorian story line, from the perspective of Praetorians, does not reach the fall of Praetoria. Praetorian characters, in the Praetorian character story line, are only just becoming aware of Primal Earth characters and the impending invasion. There is no gold side Incarnate content. There isn't even any gold side start of the Praetorian-Primal Earth conflict content. There is no gold side fall of Praetoria story at this time. I would much rather any expanded Praetoria content get caught up before we start looking at what happens after. (And any added content for gold siders not contradict existing lore in the iTrials and late game arcs.)

I'm actually not disagreeing with any of that.

 

Frankly, as a dedicated Goldside player I'd like to see the level ranges for each of the 5 zones expanded so that you can't just outlevel contacts before you've noticed; I'd like more Pre War Material here and there that builds more into the coming War ( much how Clone Wars works for Star Wars in some ways).  And finally I'd like to see the Undergrounds of First Ward and Night Ward actually exist beyond a few instances in missions.  I mean the UG iTrial takes place SOMEWHERE, and it isn't in Nova/ImperialNeutropolis. 

 

So us Gold players have workarounds. And I'm 100 per cent agreeing that things should be caught up.  

 

And now the thing that even I, someone whose Main is 100% Loyalist Gold and who adores the story of Praetoria, even I say.  If I had been an OG Dev for Retail I would NEVER have made Goldside and just updated the existing Praetorian factions.  I'd have put all that work into the Rogue Isles to make IT better.

 

But we are where we are.

 

And if I ever get the maps for it I'll finish off my last set of Pre War Praetorian AE trilogies.

 

Best.

[Rudra]

I should also point out that at the time of characters doing the Last Bastion arc from Number Six, there are no Loyalists or Resistance. Both sides ceased to exist when Praetoria City itself fell to Hamidon. (Which was the first target Hamidon went after when he got tired of Tyrant failing to show that humanity could be redeemed.) So even with Number Six and Last Bastion, your pure gold side character would have to choose to side with a new faction and forevermore cease to be a Loyalist or Resistance. So you would still have to choose to become a Primal Earth faction. (Just either UPA or New Praetorian. And work alongside both former Loyalist and former Resistance members.) So there are additional snags in progressing pure gold side content. (Which is why I am guessing that current Praetoria is basically defined as experiencing Praetoria in the past. Which is still the gold side characters' present, so no, that doesn't count as time travel.)

[Darmian]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I should also point out that at the time of characters doing the Last Bastion arc from Number Six, there are no Loyalists or Resistance. Both sides ceased to exist when Praetoria City itself fell to Hamidon. (Which was the first target Hamidon went after when he got tired of Tyrant failing to show that humanity could be redeemed.) So even with Number Six and Last Bastion, your pure gold side character would have to choose to side with a new faction and forevermore cease to be a Loyalist or Resistance. So you would still have to choose to become a Primal Earth faction. (Just either UPA or New Praetorian. And work alongside both former Loyalist and former Resistance members.) So there are additional snags in progressing pure gold side content. (Which is why I am guessing that current Praetoria is basically defined as experiencing Praetoria in the past. Which is still the gold side characters' present, so no, that doesn't count as time travel.)

Hmm, I tentatively disagree here.  First Ward and Night Ward make it very plain that whatever faction you're from, it doesn't matter.  Whatever side you picked in Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis, that's irrelevant once you get to First Ward.  And yet mechanically you're still that faction. The choices you make now are yours alone. So you're facing off against D.U.S.T. and Calvin's Resistance at the same time, while generally trying to make life better for the Elten Towners.  Or caught up in the schemes of the Black Knights and Diabolique.  Again, whether Loyalist or Resistance it doesn't matter.  And you don't have to choose Blue/Red to do it. 

 

At the end of the day I think we are, to borrow a phrase, "violently agreeing"!  It's just that the narrative gets damn confusing at times.  And I have definitely done a deep dive into the timeline to sort things out for my own edification.  And even after that I still scratch my head and think "wait, what?"

 

 

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Hmm, I tentatively disagree here.  First Ward and Night Ward make it very plain that whatever faction you're from, it doesn't matter.  Whatever side you picked in Nova/Imperial/Neutropolis, that's irrelevant once you get to First Ward.  And yet mechanically you're still that faction. The choices you make now are yours alone. So you're facing off against D.U.S.T. and Calvin's Resistance at the same time, while generally trying to make life better for the Elten Towners.  Or caught up in the schemes of the Black Knights and Diabolique.  Again, whether Loyalist or Resistance it doesn't matter.  And you don't have to choose Blue/Red to do it. 

 

At the end of the day I think we are, to borrow a phrase, "violently agreeing"!  It's just that the narrative gets damn confusing at times.  And I have definitely done a deep dive into the timeline to sort things out for my own edification.  And even after that I still scratch my head and think "wait, what?"

 

 

There is a difference. Let's use First Ward as our example. When you get to First Ward, you are told that they don't care if you are Loyalist or Resistance, or if you are Primal Hero or Villain. Only that you are there and willing to help. And yet, there is a Loyalist only contact and there is a Resistance only contact. So the factions are both still there, just given more freedom in their activities because they are operating in what is considered lost/abandoned territory.

 

In Night Ward, alignment doesn't matter regardless because all your operations and contacts are not in Praetoria. You are in the spirit world. Where First Ward and the spirit world have basically collapsed into each other, and the drive is to stop any further merging. So Primals running missions in Night Ward and Praetorians running missions in Night Ward are not even in Praetoria. Yes, you can cross over between First Ward and  Night Ward at those paths, but you are still very much crossing over from one dimension to another.

 

With the fall of Praetoria, Loyalists and Resistance cease to exist as factions. Forced into Primal Earth for survival, not to try and prevent the war since the war is over now, just for survival, former allegiances fall apart. Instead, you see former Loyalists and Resistance banding together along more Primal ideologies. The New Praetorians trying to show Primal Earth that Praetorians aren't evil and doing heroic acts. And the UPA. This is where the story stands. This the point pure gold side characters should be moving towards if they don't want to transition to Primal Earth as a Hero or Villain before the war. And this still takes away a gold side character's Loyalist/Resistance standing.

[Darmian]

As a further aside, I'd posit possible Praetorian access to the Shadow Shard. Since (a) the events currently there all take place before the fall of Praetoria, and (b) narratively Praetorians can get there.  Alas no player Praetorians but both Mayhem and Malaise appear as antagonists in Faathim the Kind's TF.  It would make more sense than shoehorning them in in other places.

 

As for moving forward, I'd advocate a series of arcs set in Primal that you can only get in game if you were Praetorian (of whatever faction) since you would be dealing with fallout from Refugees, the UPA and so on on a personal history basis.  To alleviate things ANYONE should be able to do them via Ouro, in the same way that Primal characters can access the Pre-War Praetorian content normally shut off to them.

 

Sadly, however good my or your ideas are, we have enough difficulty getting more people to play Redside, never mind Gold, so most of the suggestions here will remain just that.  The most we can really hope for is the release of missing Praetorian maps to the AE where players can "fill in the gaps" in their own way.

 

Best.

 

 

[sponazgul]

On 7/20/2025 at 10:10 AM, raven9864 said:

I don't know how Gold Side is utilized on other servers, but (at least to my observations) its a ghost town on Everlasting.

There's a lot of great story potential in it, and its kind of a shame to see so much effort put into what is basically a starter zone that no one starts in. 

 

I know the First and Night Wards kind of continue things, but honestly the content in them has very little feel of the Praetorian experience. I've asked about Letting Praetorians expand into the co-op zones like RWZ (and co-op zones ONLY) and got trolled hard for it in various channels in the game. So, I'm putting it to Devs. Access to Ouroboros would at the very least make sense. Why can Heroes and Rogues use it but not Praetorians. I mean it IS time travel.

It would give people who (for whatever reasons they call their own) that want a way to keep a Loyalist or Resistance tag a way to get to 50 that doesn't involve AE farming in Pocket D, and keep a praetorian designation. I don't think it is going to break any story lore, and might help get a neglected point of play experience more utilized.

Please don't troll me. Its a serious question and the answer asks very little to be put into action. (time travel, remember?)

PS-this would also facilitate getting Praetorian characters to open up Incarnate slots which they already built in, but with no real way to get to get to that point except AE farming in PD.

Thank you for your time.

as someone who has gotten a few characters to level 50 on Goldside (and kept them there just because) I support any new Goldside content.

 

the mapserver event was a huge help in getting all of the incarnate slots unlocked on my Loyalist, and luckily there are people who run incarnate trials out of Echo Plaza, where my Praetorian can go.

 

the grind from 45 to 50 is pretty bad - I honestly wish that there was an access to the Labyrinth of Fog from the Night Ward mansion that a Praetorian could use and join up with a league there hunting fogs and the Minotaur.

[Ukase]

For me, it absolutely doesn't matter to me if Praetorians can access any zone. So what? We all know there are people behind each avatar. We all know that a lot of people would rather team than solo. So, if they get bored of the solo play on gold, let them access any zone they wish after a little visit to null, at any level. Like what zone the OP wants to go to is going to have any impact on my play or anyone else's play? Unless they take a spot in an MSR or Hami Raid, like what difference does it make? 

We're all people behind the avatars. This alignment business, in spite of the lore, is just silly. I like the merits. (which I only rarely pursued before Mark & Recall) But the lack of access to this zone or that...just silly and unnecessary. 

Now, from an RP perspective, this is a role the player chooses to play. That role is self-limiting. I have no sympathy for a self-inflicted limitation. But if my vigilante can go to Ouro and run through the praetorian arcs, why can't the praetorian character run through the praetorian arcs? Or the hero or villain arcs? Because of lore? The only lore is the lore the player reads. Those rules don't need to apply to characters who aren't familiar with that story. I should be forbidden from playing a portion of the game with my character because of your lore? Or CoH's lore? We've already broken the lore with a number of QoL features. I see no harm in one or many more. (within reason) 

That said, I've no idea what kind of time or trouble this would take, but no argument from me as long as nothing breaks. 

[BrandX]

On 7/20/2025 at 4:36 PM, Darmian said:

I'm actually not disagreeing with any of that.

 

Frankly, as a dedicated Goldside player I'd like to see the level ranges for each of the 5 zones expanded so that you can't just outlevel contacts before you've noticed; I'd like more Pre War Material here and there that builds more into the coming War ( much how Clone Wars works for Star Wars in some ways).  And finally I'd like to see the Undergrounds of First Ward and Night Ward actually exist beyond a few instances in missions.  I mean the UG iTrial takes place SOMEWHERE, and it isn't in Nova/ImperialNeutropolis. 

 

So us Gold players have workarounds. And I'm 100 per cent agreeing that things should be caught up.  

 

And now the thing that even I, someone whose Main is 100% Loyalist Gold and who adores the story of Praetoria, even I say.  If I had been an OG Dev for Retail I would NEVER have made Goldside and just updated the existing Praetorian factions.  I'd have put all that work into the Rogue Isles to make IT better.

 

But we are where we are.

 

And if I ever get the maps for it I'll finish off my last set of Pre War Praetorian AE trilogies.

 

Best.

 

This is what I would love!  Don't need more content, but would be nice to be hard to out level content.

 

I accidently out leveled the first Warden solo mission in Nova and had to wait till level 15 to Ouro it.

 

Only have 1 pure gold sider (lvl 50+3) but it's on Everlasting so access to all the itrials hasn't always been easy 😛  Would love to get in on more itrials to get those itrial badges.

[Darmian]

15 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

This is what I would love!  Don't need more content, but would be nice to be hard to out level content.

 

I accidently out leveled the first Warden solo mission in Nova and had to wait till level 15 to Ouro it.

 

Only have 1 pure gold sider (lvl 50+3) but it's on Everlasting so access to all the itrials hasn't always been easy 😛  Would love to get in on more itrials to get those itrial badges.

I'm on Reunion and we're tiny in comparison to Everlasting, however all our iTrials are held in Echo Plaza every Sunday so a brief trip across might help those badges.  Not sure of the time or time difference but easy to ask.

[Darmian]

54 minutes ago, Ukase said:

For me, it absolutely doesn't matter to me if Praetorians can access any zone. So what? We all know there are people behind each avatar. We all know that a lot of people would rather team than solo. So, if they get bored of the solo play on gold, let them access any zone they wish after a little visit to null, at any level. Like what zone the OP wants to go to is going to have any impact on my play or anyone else's play? Unless they take a spot in an MSR or Hami Raid, like what difference does it make? 

We're all people behind the avatars. This alignment business, in spite of the lore, is just silly. I like the merits. (which I only rarely pursued before Mark & Recall) But the lack of access to this zone or that...just silly and unnecessary. 

Now, from an RP perspective, this is a role the player chooses to play. That role is self-limiting. I have no sympathy for a self-inflicted limitation. But if my vigilante can go to Ouro and run through the praetorian arcs, why can't the praetorian character run through the praetorian arcs? Or the hero or villain arcs? Because of lore? The only lore is the lore the player reads. Those rules don't need to apply to characters who aren't familiar with that story. I should be forbidden from playing a portion of the game with my character because of your lore? Or CoH's lore? We've already broken the lore with a number of QoL features. I see no harm in one or many more. (within reason) 

That said, I've no idea what kind of time or trouble this would take, but no argument from me as long as nothing breaks. 

I'm half and half with you on this!

I'm someone who loves the Lore.  And I'm quite accepting of the limits that places on the limitations I have placed on myself by choosing to play a Gold.  It is what it is.  But there are a bunch of stories in the Ouro that frankly Golds really should be able to partake in, not to mention some trials or zones.  The ITF for instance.  90 percent of the player pop just go to Night Ward's Midnight Mansion to get access to Cimerora, yet Praetorians, whose Mansion it is, can't go there?  Stick a crystal in the hallway and let us!  Hand wave a thing!  It's pre Cole anyway so supposedly before any divergence of the timeline.  The Shadow Shard?  As I said above, Mayhem and Malaise can get there but we can't?  Well, why not?  No reason. 

[Chris24601]

The biggest disconnect in the Goldside experience right now is, frankly, the i24 New Praetorian and associated RedSide arcs which unlock at 30 and yet in terms of timing occur absolutely after all the 40-50 portal corps arcs and the Incarnate TFs, iTrials, Dark Astoria, and Belladonna and Number Six arcs.

 

My suggestion would be just a flat-out reordering of the Praetorian-related content.

 

Leave the iTrials as they are, but do the following.

 

- Move the portal exit point for leaving Praetoria for Goldsiders from some empty warehouse in Paragon/the Isles to the Vanguard base in the RWZ.

 

- Move Tina Macintyre to the Vanguard base, and make her a contact for all factions with a level range of 35+. Move any non-portal missions that were on Peregrine Island to the Vanguard portal room.

 

- Tina introduces Maria Jenkins who is also in the Vanguard base and coded 40+.

 

- Maria introduces a contact level 45+ that offers a single-player non-incarnate scaled story arc version of the Praetorian iTrials (skipping Dilemma Diabolique) up to just before the Magisterium trial.

 

- That contact introduces Belladonna’s arc rescaled to level 45+ and adding a single-player version of the Magisterium trial for its finale.

 

- That contact introduces either Marchand or the Mr. G arc depending on alignment, but now at 45+.
 

- Leave Number Six as Incarnate content.

 

This creates a fairly clear path of the original Praetorian content (1-20) > First Ward (20-29), Night Ward (30-34), Tina (35+), Maria (40+), solo Praetorian War (45+), Belladonna (45+), New Praetorians/Mr. G (45+) and Number Six (50) as the complete story of Praetoria that a Praetorian could experience basically in order.

[RadiantPhoenix]

On 7/20/2025 at 10:10 AM, raven9864 said:

I don't know how Gold Side is utilized on other servers, but (at least to my observations) its a ghost town on Everlasting.

There's a lot of great story potential in it, and its kind of a shame to see so much effort put into what is basically a starter zone that no one starts in. 

 

I know the First and Night Wards kind of continue things, but honestly the content in them has very little feel of the Praetorian experience. I've asked about Letting Praetorians expand into the co-op zones like RWZ (and co-op zones ONLY) and got trolled hard for it in various channels in the game. So, I'm putting it to Devs. Access to Ouroboros would at the very least make sense. Why can Heroes and Rogues use it but not Praetorians. I mean it IS time travel.

It would give people who (for whatever reasons they call their own) that want a way to keep a Loyalist or Resistance tag a way to get to 50 that doesn't involve AE farming in Pocket D, and keep a praetorian designation. I don't think it is going to break any story lore, and might help get a neglected point of play experience more utilized.

Please don't troll me. Its a serious question and the answer asks very little to be put into action. (time travel, remember?)

PS-this would also facilitate getting Praetorian characters to open up Incarnate slots which they already built in, but with no real way to get to get to that point except AE farming in PD.

Thank you for your time.

Some of the discussion in later posts is confusing, but it sounds like what you're asking for is:

• You want your alignment to remain Praetorian, rather than one of the Primal alignments
• You want to do story content all the way to level 53.

The obvious chunks of existing co-op content to unlock with minimal new story content are both tied to the Midnighter Club:

• Cimerora (35+), and the ITF in particular
• Dark Astoria (50+)

And, conveniently, doing Night Ward content leads you directly to either freeing or taking control of the Praetorian Midnighter club.
 

All you would need in terms of story would be:

• Someone in the Praetorian Club either connecting to the Primal Club, or just getting their own Pillar from Ouroboros to access Cimerora.
• A short intro mission (50+) to bridge Praetorians into Heather Townshend

Getting access to Ouroboros itself would be a great convenience, but the actual Ouroboros missions are pretty clearly tied to Primal alignments, and would basically need to have new versions written for Praetorians.

The process, of course, is trivial: a Primal comes by and drops an Ouro portal in Praetoria somewhere, and you walk into it.

[ThatGuyCDude]

On 8/9/2025 at 1:09 PM, Chris24601 said:

This creates a fairly clear path of the original Praetorian content (1-20) > First Ward (20-29), Night Ward (30-34), Tina (35+), Maria (40+), solo Praetorian War (45+), Belladonna (45+), New Praetorians/Mr. G (45+) and Number Six (50) as the complete story of Praetoria that a Praetorian could experience basically in order.

This is an excellent idea; it eases the Praetorian character into the Primal setting in a way that makes logical sense instead of dropping them on their head with a bunch of factions and notions they haven't even heard of before.  When I moved my Praetorian from Night Ward to Paragon, he got dumped in the middle of a Nemesis plot, with no context about what was happening back in his home dimension.  Got a little further and the plot just skips past all the iTrials, assuming you've beaten them before and had the opportunity to follow what they were all about (instead of being lead along by somebody who's run them eight hundred times).  Emerging at the Vanguard Base or the Portal Corp would make the narrative transition MUCH smoother, and having mission versions of the iTrial content so that you can follow what's going on instead of tripping about with hearsay would be fantastic.  It breaks the disconnect that occurs when you're made to leave Goldside and it renders the future Primal content as Praetorian content as well.  Again, excellent idea!

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

The obvious chunks of existing co-op content to unlock with minimal new story content are both tied to the Midnighter Club:

• Cimerora (35+), and the ITF in particular
• Dark Astoria (50+)

These are specifically tied to Primal Earth. A Praetorian that never goes Primal would never even know about these. The Praetorian Cimerora has nothing to do with the Primal Cimerora. And the struggle against Mot in Dark Astoria doesn't affect Praetoria. There is no reason for a dedicated Praetorian character to access either of these. There isn't even a Banished Pantheon presence to work on freeing Mot in Praetoria.

 

6 hours ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

Getting access to Ouroboros itself would be a great convenience, but the actual Ouroboros missions are pretty clearly tied to Primal alignments, and would basically need to have new versions written for Praetorians.

That would be because the Coming Storm is threatening Primal Earth. It is unknown if the Battalion of the Praetorian dimension is doing anything similar. For all we know, the Praetorian Battalion could have already been defeated on another world, be hiding because the Wells feed on its kind in that dimension, or any of myriad other possibilities. With Emperor Cole being the only known actual Incarnate of Praetoria, he shares his power with his followers, the Battalion if it does the same as the Primal version, may simply be looking at Praetorian Earth as a waste of its time because of the lack of Incarnate presence.

 

Edited Friday at 08:18 AM by Rudra
Edited to add missing "defeated".

[Skyhawke]

On 8/9/2025 at 2:09 PM, Chris24601 said:

The biggest disconnect in the Goldside experience right now is, frankly, the i24 New Praetorian and associated RedSide arcs which unlock at 30 and yet in terms of timing occur absolutely after all the 40-50 portal corps arcs and the Incarnate TFs, iTrials, Dark Astoria, and Belladonna and Number Six arcs.

 

So much this. That contact just sits for me until I've done all the Praetorian stuff first and bugs me every time I open the contacts window and see it. I'd love to know the reasoning behind putting those contacts out so much earlier than they should've been. 

[Chris24601]

On 8/15/2025 at 8:44 AM, Skyhawke said:

 

So much this. That contact just sits for me until I've done all the Praetorian stuff first and bugs me every time I open the contacts window and see it. I'd love to know the reasoning behind putting those contacts out so much earlier than they should've been. 

Also worth noting is that when I played it on Beta just before shutdown the arcs had an upper ceiling of 39 as well.

 

My suspicion is that, had it not gone into shutdown, placing that arc in the 30-39 range was part of an overall revamp where they were creating a new game path that was intended to work in line the Signature Story Arcs and overall rush to 50 for grindy Post Praetoria War Incarnate content.

 

Basically, had it gone onwards, I believed new players would have been expected to start in Galaxy City tutorial zone, then played through the chain that starts with Habashy in Atlas, then the Shining Stars missions and new Kings Row arcs (which weren’t complete… I suspect there would have eventually been at least a third arc continuing that story).

 

That gets you to the range where the first signature story arc begins and a number of what I call the “advertisement arcs” show up (you know… like one where you have to help the museum curator with the Tsoo problem and throughout it face overtuned opponents with the power sets then only available for unlock in the Paragon Point Shop… they’re so cool and you can buy them for yourself).

 

You also get your doppelgänger arc, the Roy Cooling arc about upgrading the mediporters in that spread, and First Ward (and then Night Ward) as the first non-Praetorian access to Praetoria.

 

New Praetorians would have slotted In right after that with the idea that new toons were doing things in First/Night Ward while the bulk of the Praetorian War was happening and now here are a bunch of characters from First Ward in the refugee compound and even the trainer from there on your team.

 

Had it not been shut down I’m sure a follow-up 40-50 arc and zone (probably what Kallisti Wharf was originally being built for) that set up where Incarnate content was expected to be in terms of additional post-war iTrials would have been the i25 content (corresponding with the first post-Praetoria iTrial).

 

In that sense it would have served as a completely alternate path featuring many arcs with newer mechanics and overall better graphics. You could still play the older stuff of course, but the live game wouldn’t have guided you off the new rails… it’d be something you had to go looking for.

 

However, because of the shutdown a whole bunch of bits were left half-finished and so arcs like the New Praetorians feel out of place… though the option now to progress to the finally realized Kallisti Wharf instead of to Peregrine and the Portal Corps arcs now allows something much closer to what would have been the planned live experience of just bypassing the Praetorian War entirely.

[Heavensrun]

On 7/20/2025 at 9:10 AM, raven9864 said:

I don't know how Gold Side is utilized on other servers, but (at least to my observations) its a ghost town on Everlasting.

There's a lot of great story potential in it, and its kind of a shame to see so much effort put into what is basically a starter zone that no one starts in. 

 

I know the First and Night Wards kind of continue things, but honestly the content in them has very little feel of the Praetorian experience. I've asked about Letting Praetorians expand into the co-op zones like RWZ (and co-op zones ONLY) and got trolled hard for it in various channels in the game. So, I'm putting it to Devs. Access to Ouroboros would at the very least make sense. Why can Heroes and Rogues use it but not Praetorians. I mean it IS time travel.

It would give people who (for whatever reasons they call their own) that want a way to keep a Loyalist or Resistance tag a way to get to 50 that doesn't involve AE farming in Pocket D, and keep a praetorian designation. I don't think it is going to break any story lore, and might help get a neglected point of play experience more utilized.

Please don't troll me. Its a serious question and the answer asks very little to be put into action. (time travel, remember?)

PS-this would also facilitate getting Praetorian characters to open up Incarnate slots which they already built in, but with no real way to get to get to that point except AE farming in PD.

Thank you for your time.

 

I actually posted about this the other day, I'd overlooked this thread.  I am 100% on board with this.  For those saying it doesn't fit the lore, Vanguard are literally the ones that evacuate Praetoria at the end, and it makes perfect sense that they might take any powers division types they find and draft them in exchange for rescue.  Just add a level 40 mission to praetoria where you are fighting DE mobs in Imperial City when Cole nukes the magisterium, and in the aftermath of that, Dark Watcher or somebody shows up and recruits you in exchange for offering you safe passage to certain areas in PC.  The War Zone makes sense because Vanguard has recruited you in exchange for securing your evacuation (and it gives you access to the last praetorian story arc) and hey, while we're at it, Kallisti Wharf is flush with Praetorian refugees.  Let us bounce around there too.

 

If you're gonna complain about lore, that's just lack of effort.  There are always ways to write around lore problems.

And to the person that mentioned striga, we don't have to open up ALL co-op zones.  Striga isn't exactly a co-op zone anyway, there's no unifying faction that is working with both heroes and villains, heroes and villains can just both go there for different mission arcs.  It's not exactly the same model as the war zone.  (It's also set during a level range where praetorians already aren't hurting for content, whereas RWZ gives praetorians access to mission content that both continues their story and also gives a route in-game for levelling to 50.

Edited 20 hours ago by Heavensrun

[Heavensrun]

On 8/15/2025 at 3:17 AM, Rudra said:

These are specifically tied to Primal Earth. A Praetorian that never goes Primal would never even know about these. The Praetorian Cimerora has nothing to do with the Primal Cimerora. And the struggle against Mot in Dark Astoria doesn't affect Praetoria. There is no reason for a dedicated Praetorian character to access either of these. There isn't even a Banished Pantheon presence to work on freeing Mot in Praetoria.

 

That would be because the Coming Storm is threatening Primal Earth. It is unknown if the Battalion of the Praetorian dimension is doing anything similar. For all we know, the Praetorian Battalion could have already been defeated on another world, be hiding because the Wells feed on its kind in that dimension, or any of myriad other possibilities. With Emperor Cole being the only known actual Incarnate of Praetoria, he shares his power with his followers, the Battalion if it does the same as the Primal version, may simply be looking at Praetorian Earth as a waste of its time because of the lack of Incarnate presence.

 

With Cimerora: Cimerora is in the distant past.  Who's to say that it doesn't occur before Primal and Praetorian Earth split into two timelines?  Maybe it's a *shared period* of their history, and if the Primal Earth's Council is interfering in that history, maybe that's something the Praetorian Midnighters would also care about addressing.  

Or if you don't like what that does to your understanding of temporal mechanics, what if, after the events of Night Ward, the Midnight Club approaches the Midnighters to try and help start evacuating Praetoria during the war, and in the process of forming an alliance, the Midnighters agree to just, y'know, help out with the Midnight Club's time travel problem by sending some strong help their way?  "Hey, <playername>, I have this thing I'd like you to do for our Primal Earth allies...."

 

And if we add that the Midnighters and Midnight Club officially start working together at the end of Night Ward, then why couldn't they also ask level 50 Praetorians to go help out the Primals with this Dark Astoria mystery that's cropping up?  Praetor Duncan and Diabolique get involved, it's not like Praetoria has NO interest there.

I get the reverence for the game's existing lore, but it is *not hard* to write a short mission that ties these plotlines together in a way that would allow for Praetorians to participate in Primal Earth shenanigans.  And the best thing is, you don't have to do all of them!  But *any* of them would provide a way for players with gold side characters to participate in more content with those characters.  So if it's not hard, and it opens up gameplay for a group of the playerbase, maybe offers more player choice and value to playing other story paths, isn't that worth doing?  Doesn't that grow and improve the game?

Edited 19 hours ago by Heavensrun

[Darmian]

Will give Architect Arc: Praetoria Falls! Book 1: The Evacuation of First Ward  |  Arc ID:  51490  a run!  Thanks for writing it @Heavensrun.

 

 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Heavensrun said:

With Cimerora: Cimerora is in the distant past.  Who's to say that it doesn't occur before Primal and Praetorian Earth split into two timelines?  Maybe it's a *shared period* of their history, and if the Primal Earth's Council is interfering in that history, maybe that's something the Praetorian Midnighters would also care about addressing. 

Praetorian Earth and Primal Earth aren't the same world that diverged somewhere along the way, they are completely separate, mirror dimensions. Nowhere does it say in the game or the provided lore that they are different time lines that diverged. It says they are different dimensions that mirror each other.

 

1 hour ago, Heavensrun said:

Or if you don't like what that does to your understanding of temporal mechanics, what if, after the events of Night Ward, the Midnight Club approaches the Midnighters to try and help start evacuating Praetoria during the war, and in the process of forming an alliance, the Midnighters agree to just, y'know, help out with the Midnight Club's time travel problem by sending some strong help their way?  "Hey, <playername>, I have this thing I'd like you to do for our Primal Earth allies...."

Night Ward is not part of Praetoria. It is part of the spirit realm. The part where the spirit realm and First Ward overlapped and merged. There is no reason to evacuate Night Ward because it isn't under threat from Praetorian Hamidon. Hamidon doesn't care about the realm of the dead.

 

1 hour ago, Heavensrun said:

I get the reverence for the game's existing lore, but it is *not hard* to write a short mission that ties these plotlines together in a way that would allow for Praetorians to participate in Primal Earth shenanigans.  And the best thing is, you don't have to do all of them!  But *any* of them would provide a way for players with gold side characters to participate in more content with those characters.  So if it's not hard, and it opens up gameplay for a group of the playerbase, maybe offers more player choice and value to playing other story paths, isn't that worth doing?  Doesn't that grow and improve the game?

As I already said, I would vastly prefer that the Praetorian story line get caught up before we start worrying about what comes after. The Praetorian story line, from the Praetorian perspective, does not even reach the war, let alone anything that happens after it.

[Darmian]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Night Ward is not part of Praetoria. It is part of the spirit realm. The part where the spirit realm and First Ward overlapped and merged.

 

The most you can say about Night Ward is it is both Praetorian AND part of the Spirit World but it's still definitely Praetorian.

Dark forces hide in Night Ward, threatening to destroy the world. Night Ward is a Level 25-30 co-op zone, with contacts up to level 50, where characters encounter strange magical allies and foes. This Praetorian zone is connected to First Ward, and is a realm trapped between the land of the living and the world of the dead.

Night Ward is a pseudo-dimension created by a small portion of the Netherworld overlapping the world of the living in First Ward. As such, it closely mirrors Praetoria’s First Ward geographically, but that is where the similarities end. The zone is packed with the spirits of the dead who are trapped between worlds. Night Ward gives both the living and the dead an opportunity to view things from the other side of the veil.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, Darmian said:

 

The most you can say about Night Ward is it is both Praetorian AND part of the Spirit World but it's still definitely Praetorian.

Dark forces hide in Night Ward, threatening to destroy the world. Night Ward is a Level 25-30 co-op zone, with contacts up to level 50, where characters encounter strange magical allies and foes. This Praetorian zone is connected to First Ward, and is a realm trapped between the land of the living and the world of the dead.

Night Ward is a pseudo-dimension created by a small portion of the Netherworld overlapping the world of the living in First Ward. As such, it closely mirrors Praetoria’s First Ward geographically, but that is where the similarities end. The zone is packed with the spirits of the dead who are trapped between worlds. Night Ward gives both the living and the dead an opportunity to view things from the other side of the veil.

It specifically tells you in the game that when you enter Night Ward, you have entered the spirit realm. Coyote himself says as much. It is a Praetorian zone in that it is considered Praetorian content, it is a gold side zone, but it is not part of Praetoria. And the missions in the game tell you so.

 

Edit: Just like the Shadow Shard is a group of blue side zones, but is not part of Paragon City. It is a completely separate dimension.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Rudra

[Darmian]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It specifically tells you in the game that when you enter Night Ward, you have entered the spirit realm. Coyote himself says as much. It is a Praetorian zone in that it is considered Praetorian content, it is a gold side zone, but it is not part of Praetoria. And the missions in the game tell you so.

 

Edit: Just like the Shadow Shard is a group of blue side zones, but is not part of Paragon City. It is a completely separate dimension.

 

Yep.  It's the Spirit Realm of Praetoria.  That's the point.  It's not a binary, it's both.  And the Shadow Shard isn't an analog.  But you mentioning the Shadow Shard raises an interesting point.  I mentioned above that in Faathim's TF Mother Mayhem and her Malaise are present in the Shadow Shard.  So some Praetorians can go there, so why can't others?  

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Yep.  It's the Spirit Realm of Praetoria.  That's the point.  It's not a binary, it's both.

You are making my point for me. Because that means that the Midnighters of Primal Earth have no reason to bother with Night Ward because they already have their own concerns with the Rikti, the spirit realm of Primal Earth, and the Circle of Thorns. Further, Hamidon has no stated interest in the realm of the dead. So as far as anyone retreating to Night Ward to escape Hamidon? They are now perfectly safe from him and the Devouring Earth of Praetoria. On the other hand, the Drudges very much care about the living being present in Night Ward and are quite eager to render your character (edit: and any fleeing First Worders) into the correct state to be there: deceased. And that is even before you get to the point that I made and has still not been addressed, that the Praetorian story, for Praetorian characters, still doesn't even get to the war. So how are you going to just jump past the war straight to the refugee Praetorians from Hamidon's onslaught now living on Primal Earth?

 

11 minutes ago, Darmian said:

And the Shadow Shard isn't an analog.  But you mentioning the Shadow Shard raises an interesting point.  I mentioned above that in Faathim's TF Mother Mayhem and her Malaise are present in the Shadow Shard.  So some Praetorians can go there, so why can't others?  

The Shadow Shard is before the war. If the devs want to create Praetorian Shadow Shard content? By all means. At least that content wouldn't simply be skipping past all the story established in the game.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Rudra