Anything Skippable in the New Regen?

[Renatos1023]

My question is the topic: Is there anything that you think is skippable in the new Regen powerset? - I don't think there is tbh.

 

I'm running an Axe/Regen Scrap with the newly revamped powerset. I just hit 43 and I have all the Regen powers, I can't find one that I think is skippable. So, I was looking for opinions on what y'all might think is skippable.

 

I could see maybe skipping MoG, but I like that it doesn't crash and is an LoTG mule (I also have 2 recharges in it). Honestly, the new Regen has been amazing. I've loved playing this character and have not had endurance issues. 

 

I feel like Regen really benefits from all of the defensive procs, much more than other sets: + 7.5% max health, + 5 resistance to all, the scaling resist bonus, +6% def to all (I did slot both 3% ones). Layering everything really makes Regen shine. I know some people think it is futile to add defense to Regen due to the lack of DDR, but I'm closing in on 20% to M/R/AoE (which is my build goal) and IMO it does make a difference.

[bAss_ackwards]

The only thing I've skipped was Reconstruction. I've made a ~45% S/L/F/C/E/N Defense build that works quite well and is a lot of fun to play!

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

I know some people think it is futile to add defense to Regen due to the lack of DDR, but I'm closing in on 20% to M/R/AoE (which is my build goal) and IMO it does make a difference.

 

I don't remember anyone saying it is "futile to add defense".

What folks and myself have pointed out is more along the lines of Regen and Resistance have a synergy and that chasing defense is a bit of a trap. 

It's hard to not end up with 20-25% on a finished build. 

Me, I typically land near 35% without chasing. I definitely do not prioritize Defense over Regen, Resistance, and Recharge.

 

What's skippable? 

While leveling.. nothing. 

Once folks are doing level 50 builds and incarnates the is some, but the devs have made it harder to skip powers and thus limiting diversity.

 

[Maelwys]

Instant Healing.

[VPrime]

Reconstruction 

[JediDave]

It seems like everything is good, but if you're in  need of a power and have to drop something, I'd think Fast Healing is the easiest to get rid of. With how easy it is to cap HP, Second Wind can probably be skipped and just make sure you get a few +HP set bonuses, which are easy to grab. MoG could be skipped, but you'll be out an easy LotG mule and panic button. And the last contender is Reconstruction since you would have Second Wind as a big heal if needed. I wouldn't skip more than one of those in a single build, and I really wouldn't suggest skipping any if possible. Feels like Marine affinity, the set has no bad powers so the power selection in the build gets really tight really fast.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, JediDave said:

It seems like everything is good, but if you're in  need of a power and have to drop something, I'd think Fast Healing is the easiest to get rid of.

 

You would skip a power providing Regeneration Debuff Resistance?

[Yomo Kimyata]

I haven't had the time or inclination to start up a new regen, and my mindset is definitely biased by how I was able to make old regen work like a well-oiled machine, but my thoughts right now are:

 

Fast Healing -- skippable.  Regeneration is always nice, and the new resistance to regeneration debuff is also nice, but I often find better places to use a power slot.

Reconstruction -- absolutely not skippable.  Core power.

Quick Recovery -- skippable.  Lots of ways to manage your endurance nowadays, although endurance debuff resistance is nice.  If that number were higher, like 50%, I might have to reconsider skippability.

Ailment Resistance -- absolutely not skippable.  This is a do-everything power now for one slot.

Integration -- absolutely not skippable.  You need your mez resistance.

Resilience -- not skippable.  This is a rinky dink power, but you need resistance.

Instant Healing/Reactive Regeneration -- skippable/not skippable.  Too late Mom, the mob has spoken.  In old regen, I always put in Instant Healing as a pro-active oh shit button for very little slot cost.  Reactive Regeneration brings back immortal mode so you don't need an oh shit button anymore.

Second Wind -- technically skippable, but why would you?  Like Ailment Resistance and Reactive Regeneration, this has become a magic do-everything power now.

Moment of Glory -- classic oh shit button.  Regeneration does not seem to need an oh shit button anymore.  I'd still keep it, but I'd want to level up a new character to see if it's necessary.

 

[SomeGuy]

Boy this thread is confusing as f*ck. I've literally only seen one post that made sense to me regarding a skippable power.

[Troo]

Sorry @SomeGuy

 

Here, let me try again.

1. While leveling none of them are really skippable.
2. When you get to 50 and are working with incarnates there is some flexibility. 
   • We're not likely skipping any +Max Hp, or +Resistance, skipping powers with Endurance impacts can be tricky, and the set is called Regeneration..
   • Reconstruction: Maybe a player doesn't need the heal as much with a completed build. (I wouldn't skip it)
   • Moment of Glory: It's short duration.. but the new +Dam on top of the +Recovery and god mode...

If you asked the folks who designed the revamp: "Some players should likely find Ailment Resistance optional to their builds if all they want is to retain live functionality, unless they highly desire the additional passive benefits. The power is still intended to be highly desirable." Even their skippable is designed to be 'highly desirable".

 

The designer(s) also wants to drive players to really focus on Recharge as a core and potentially take Burnout: .."via very high recharge builds or combination of Second Wind and Burnout in addition to accolade powers and set bonuses." By design, it quickly becomes a cookie cutter set. Players are almost forced to take the same powers and very similar pool powers.

 

Powers & Effects

Spoiler Power Level Effect Fast Healing 1 Auto: Self +Regen, Res(-Regen) Reconstruction 1 Self Heal, +Res(Toxic) Quick Recovery 4 Auto: Self +Rec, Res(-Rec) Ailment Resistance 10 Auto: Self +Max HP, -Res(Heal), Res(-Def, -End, -Spd, -Regen, -Rec, -Rech, -Range, -ToHit) Integration 16 Toggle: Self +Res(Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob), +Regen, Taunt (except Scrappers) Resilience 20 Auto: Self +Res(Disorient, All DMG) Instant Healing 24 Click: Self +Regen Reactive Regeneration 24 Toggle: Self +Regen, +Res(-Regen, -End, -Rec) Second Wind 28 Self +Max HP, Rez(Special) Moment of Glory 30 Self +DMG, +DEF(All DMG), +Res(All DMG, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Knockback, Repel), +Rec

 

[JediDave]

58 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

You would skip a power providing Regeneration Debuff Resistance?

No, I would take all 9 powers

[aethereal]

I'm with @Yomo Kimyata.

 

Regeneration remains a clicky, active set.  I get that some people really, really, really don't want Regen to be a clicky, active set and want a passive regen set, but Regeneration is not that, even with the Instant Healing -> Reactive Regeneration change.

 

Reconstruction is mandatory.  What isn't mandatory is Fast Healing or Quick Recovery.

[SomeGuy]

I suppose that's as close to a WTF? emoji there is.

 

A few of the things that made the set absolutely horrible was the lack of debuff protection. And now that the set has it...people are arguing that those powers that provide it...are skippable?

 

Make it make sense.

Edited Monday at 06:39 PM by SomeGuy

[SeraphimKensai]

With IOs...skip Quick Recovery? Or at least that's what I did with a recent Regen/Stone tanker. I haven't played Regen on a Scrapper in awhile personally.

 

Regarding the thought about padding defense vs resistance.... personally I prefer padding resistance on a Tanker or Brute due to the 90% resistance caps. On a Scrapper or Stalker I would absolutely pad defense as you can still get to that 1/20 hit rate, which means you want all the regen and better regen debuff resistance for addressing the hits that do get through. Still want to build for Max HP regardless, as that boosts your regen ticks.

[SomeGuy]

DEF > RES > HP > HP/s

 

But for the question in the OP...it seems there are three skippable powers since you can't really make them permanent or it is very situational.

 

Instant Healing

Second Wind

Moment of Glory (if you like damage...this doesn't seem skippable)

 

I can actually see the argument for dropping Quick Recovery. I will say though...when you are getting drained of end (which is more often then some think) you will wish you had the -REC protection there. 

 

You take everything else. 

Edited Monday at 06:56 PM by SomeGuy

[aethereal]

24 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

I suppose that's as close to a WTF? emoji there is.

 

A few of the things that made the set absolutely horrible was the lack of debuff protection. And now that the set has it...people are arguing that those powers that provide it...are skippable?

 

Lack of regen debuff was never what made the set bad, it was just people pattern matching Super Reflexes onto Regeneration.  And 20% unenhanceable regen debuff resistance is not going to actually move the needle on regen debuffs.

 

Recovery debuff resistance was never even remotely on anyone's complaint card about Regen.  I mean, is it cool that they added some?  Sure!  But nobody before the revamp was saying, "Man, if this set had recovery debuff resistance, I'd be excited about it."

[Maelwys]

1 minute ago, aethereal said:

Lack of regen debuff was never what made the set bad, it was just people pattern matching Super Reflexes onto Regeneration.  And 20% unenhanceable regen debuff resistance is not going to actually move the needle on regen debuffs.

 

Recovery debuff resistance was never even remotely on anyone's complaint card about Regen.  I mean, is it cool that they added some?  Sure!  But nobody before the revamp was saying, "Man, if this set had recovery debuff resistance, I'd be excited about it."

 

FWIW Endurance Drains and Recovery debuffs (mainly sappers) routinely annoyed my original i6 /Regen Scrapper at higher levels.
Sure; since then MoG has become useful... but the +20% Recovery debuff resistance from Quick Recovery plus another +20% Recovery debuff resistance and 20% Endurance debuff resistance from Ailment Resistance allows a Regen to be much less likely to "bottom out" via Endurance drains.

I make the achievable Regeneration debuff resistance right now +20% from Fast Healing, +20% from Ailment Resistance and another up-to-45% from Reactive Regeneration. That's 95%; AKA 5% short of the cap. If you run Ageless Radial then yes; you can drop FH and still hit >96%; but personally I'd probably sooner drop Second Wind or Reconstruction.

[aethereal]

12 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

FWIW Endurance Drains and Recovery debuffs (mainly sappers) routinely annoyed my original i6 /Regen Scrapper at higher levels.

 

Sure.  Sappers annoy everyone.  But @SomeGuy made the claim that "lack of debuff resistance was part of what made the set horrible before."  I read a lot of Regen threads, I never once heard someone say, "The problem with Regen is it doesn't offer recovery debuff resistance, just like almost all armors."

 

12 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Sure; since then MoG has become useful... but the +20% Recovery debuff resistance from Quick Recovery plus another +20% Recovery debuff resistance and 20% Endurance debuff resistance from Ailment Resistance allows a Regen to be much less likely to "bottom out" via Endurance drains.

 

And, conversely, if you skip Quick Recovery, you'll still have most of your recovery debuff resistance (there's also up to 30% resistance in Reactive Regen if you max out stacks, I believe).

 

12 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

I make the achievable Regeneration debuff resistance right now +20% from Fast Healing, +20% from Ailment Resistance and another up-to-45% from Reactive Regeneration. That's 95%; AKA 5% short of the cap. If you run Ageless Radial then yes; you can drop FH and still hit >96%; but personally I'd probably sooner drop Second Wind or Reconstruction.

 

Regen debuffs just aren't that common, and the problem with Fast Healing is that it contributes very little to the 95% of the mobs in the game that don't debuff your regen, they just try to kill you.  Reconstruction and Second Wind are in fact useful to stay alive most of the time (Second Wind maybe less so if you already have all the max HP you need through Ailment Resistance and accolades).

 

To be clear: I think that Fast Healing and Quick Recovery are skippable.  I don't mean, "These are actively bad powers that you should never consider," like, I don't know, SR's T9 power or something.  Stuff that's not worth its cast time.  I mean, if you're looking at your build and you're like, "Jesus, I just need to find something to drop," then Fast Healing makes you minorly worse in a small minority of cases where you probably are fine.  Quick Recovery's utility will depend on what your endurance economy needs are, but lots of builds just don't need another recovery power.  Sure, you may put a slightly higher premium on targeting sappers -- just like, again, most people do.

Edited Monday at 07:28 PM by aethereal

[VPrime]

What makes Reconstruction dramatically better than green inspirations? Is it the res to toxic that makes it a core power?

Edited Monday at 07:34 PM by VPrime

[SomeGuy]

13 minutes ago, VPrime said:

What makes Reconstruction dramatically better than green inspirations? Is it the res to toxic that makes it a core power?

 

 

When you run out of Green insp you are going to want Recon. And if you have Recon, you have way more options to combine insp to purples, or oranges. Those help it where you won't need heals anywhere near as much.

 

 

 

I shouldn't be surprised to read crazy outlandish stuff in a regen thread. I always have. I suppose I always will.

 

Also, @aethereal, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

No matter how wrong it is.

 

I also have read a lot of regen threads. I also mained a claws/regen (I know...cliche) when the game launched. I know the game behind the curtain. Extensively. There are a multitude of reasons why I never spoke well about the set. This passover helps a lot of those issues, but it still needs a lot of work. The set still needs more recharge protection baked in. 

Edited Monday at 07:47 PM by SomeGuy

[Erratic1]

My question is what is so filling power selections that skipping powers is preferable, particularly skipping powers in the secondary set? Because it seems to me optimized attack rotations generally mean skipped offensive powers, which gets you one or more power slots open on top of the 6 you already had open even if you took every Primary and Secondary power.

 

Is Quick Recovery skippable? Yeah. Does it provide more Recovery than Stamina? Yes. And I am more often short of enhancement slots than I am of power picks. In fact, one can skip putting slots in Stamina and Health all together, put one extra in Quick Recovery and have a very solid amount of endurance coming while saving two slots.

[aethereal]

34 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

Also, @aethereal, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

No matter how wrong it is.

 

I also have read a lot of regen threads. I also mained a claws/regen (I know...cliche) when the game launched. I know the game behind the curtain. Extensively. There are a multitude of reasons why I never spoke well about the set. This passover helps a lot of those issues, but it still needs a lot of work. The set still needs more recharge protection baked in. 

 

I would agree that recharge protection would be more valuable than regen protection, and I also thought that the revamp was tepid.

[aethereal]

47 minutes ago, VPrime said:

What makes Reconstruction dramatically better than green inspirations? Is it the res to toxic that makes it a core power?

 

If you feel like you want to use green insps for immediate breathing room, you can still do that.  But if you want to use insps defensively, purples and oranges are probably better, and in either case Reconstruction (about the equivalent of a large green once every 15-20 seconds) reduces pressure on your insp usage.

[oldskool]

If I made a Scrapper, then I might consider dropping Second Wind once I got my HP capped without that power being active. That is possible with a well slotted Ailment Resistance, IO sets, and Accolades. 

 

That said, I'd probably still keep it as a backup heal unless there was some other defensive power I wanted which provided similar or better value to me. In a lot of cases those other options are gated behind other power choices. So, that is another thing to consider too. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

Recovery debuff resistance was never even remotely on anyone's complaint card about Regen.

 

I seem to recall that people bitched about this all the time, and I get that because it sucks to get drained.  I don't have the least problem with sappers, literally, since there is only ever one per spawn and a sapper can't drain me if 1. they can't hit me and/or 2. they are already dead.

 

The part that mystified me was when people were willing to burn down the castle over resistance to regeneration debuffs.  I don't think I've ever been defeated because my regeneration rate was debuffed from 200% to 100%, or even 500% to 250% but I've been defeated a bunch when a hit got through my defenses/resistances.  That's how I played high end regen -- a series of (hopefully) well timed oh shit buttons.  Also, I'd be far more concerned with healing debuffs than regeneration debuffs (and those are two different things, although the healing one has a negative sign to it).

 

57 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I would agree that recharge protection would be more valuable than regen protection, and I also thought that the revamp was tepid.

 

Absolutely, but it is pretty easy to get to 50-100% slow debuff protection through enhancements and set bonuses.  No real need to make that an inherent part of the power set, imo.