Assassin's Strike question

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'm working on a Stalker, almost the first time ever, the name of Meatwave (StJ/DA)

 

I've just got my AS, and I'm thinking Combat Teleport would be useful to have - get me in, rip out the guy's spine, get out. 

 

But I also note that AS is quite a long duration, 8 seconds which is probably the time I take to identify said spine before ripping it out. Would that negate CT? Is it a useful power to take? 

 

I'd be interested in knowing what is a good technique and what powers I should and shouldn't take. 

[Frosticus]

You will rarely use the slow version of AS. Open with crushing uppercut or an aoe depending on the situation. 

 

Use fast mode of AS which is ~1.5 sec cast. When you get 3 stacks of Assassin's Focus from regular primary attacks your fast AS with auto crit. If you are on a team 2 stacks will be sufficient.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks. I have rarely ever played Stalkers, last was on live before Incarnates so... to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, I should use a different power to hit with and wait til I get an orange ring around AS before use? 

[bellona100]

37 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Thanks. I have rarely ever played Stalkers, last was on live before Incarnates so... to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, I should use a different power to hit with and wait til I get an orange ring around AS before use? 

Yes, that is what Frosticus is saying.

 

I just read something interesting on Reddit about Street Justice.  To give context, they are talking about placing Stalker's Guile in AS.

 

Mu0nNeutrino

•6y ago

Rebirth Dev 

 

You want that set in assassin's strike, every time.

 

As you noted being put into a hide state isn't actually that useful for using assassin's strike. AS from hide is a fight opener, not a mid-combat attack. Not only can it be interrupted, but the long animation makes it worse overall DPS than you'd think. The other reason it's not very good to try to use the hide proc to attack with AS is that AS is the one attack in the set that already has a way to set up guaranteed crits outside of hide with assassin's focus stacks. Trying to go into hide with the proc and then attack with AS from hide is just wasting the real potential of AS; the guaranteed assassin's focus quick-crits are more powerful in mid-combat than a slow, interruptable AS from hide.

 

The other reason to put the set into AS is that it's a relatively long recharging attack at base, which means that the PPM mechanics give it a higher chance to proc in AS than if you put it in most other attacks. Especially once you upgrade it to superior, it's got a very good chance to go off. Your ideal attack chain then ends up being two normal attacks, AS, and then your strongest other ST attack, with the hope that you get three assassin's focus stacks by the time you get back to AS. This lets you deal an absolutely brutal one-two punch of a guaranteed fast-crit AS followed up by a guaranteed hide-crit with your other strongest attack. (This is especially ridiculous on some sets with combo mechanics, like street justice. Heavy Blow -> Shin Breaker -> Assassin's Blow -> Crushing Uppercut with the hide proc in AS means combo three autocrit Crushing Uppercuts every time the proc goes off.)

[UltraAlt]

On 9/5/2025 at 3:53 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'd be interested in knowing what is a good technique and what powers I should and shouldn't take. 

 

I go in hidden, get near my target, set so I'm sure I'm not moving, and set of the assassin strike. As long as my character is not moving and the enemy doesn't move away before it goes of, it will do the hit check. I tend to target the boss first.

 

What happens next depends if I'm on a team or not.

 

I'm going to continue attacking the boss and take my target down regardless unless my health is getting low fast.

If I'm not on a team, I'm going to run back until my character get hide on and the enemies are starting to run back, then pick off the last one in line with an assassin strike.

 

Now if I'm in battle with a target and my assassin strike charges up, I use placate on my target before using assassin strike on them. I don't know if the assassin strike works the way that it used to or not, but I think at one point - doing that  - effectively made you hidden to the placated target so you can get the crit off the assassin strike again.

 

Many players, like Frosticus are using stalkers like scrappers. If you on a full team that is steamrolling especially at higher levels, that is generally the way to go as by the time your assassin strike from hidden goes of, your target tends to have already been defeated by the rest of the team.

 

On smaller teams, of 2 or 3, generally the other players on the team will understand what is going on and will let you move in and position to do your assassin strike before they attack. At that point you can usually stay in the fight and and scrapper it out until the next mob. 

 

I think combat teleport will un-hidden you, but I'm not sure. I always walk in and set my position near the target. Hidden is really good stealth so it is unlikely a target will see you unless they are an EB or AV. 

 

On 9/5/2025 at 3:53 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

(StJ/DA)

 

Street Justice

I think my stalkers that have street justice and are high enough level have all the primary primaries.

Unlike dual blades, you don't have to do attacks in a set order. You just have to charge-up the finishers to get the circle around the power to get the most effects out of them.

Spinning Strike is an interesting one as it a ranged AoE attack. I find if I target a character close to my character that it only reach them, but, if target a character behind the nearest character that my character hit both of them (sometimes additional character nearby) 

 

Dark Armor

I'm assuming Dark Armor is just as end heavy as it is for other sets.

I would not use Cloak of Fear, Oppressive Gloom or Soul Transfer if I was going to play a stalker as a stalker. The first two will agro foes so it ruins your hidden status. I tend not to get self rez powers.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:41 AM by UltraAlt
forgot a "not" where there should have been one

[Uun]

I occasionally use slow AS solo if there's a troublesome boss I want to erase from the equation. I don't know what the attack chain looks like in Street Justice, but generally it's BU > AS > [strongest attack]. You might need a 4th attack depending on the boss's relative level and resists. I don't bother using slow AS on things like Malta Sappers or Tsoo Sorcerers. A regular attack or snipe used from Hide is usually sufficient to take them out. In normal combat and on teams I'm using quick AS 95% of the time.

[Frosticus]

On 9/5/2025 at 1:01 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

Thanks. I have rarely ever played Stalkers, last was on live before Incarnates so... to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, I should use a different power to hit with and wait til I get an orange ring around AS before use? 

Yes and no. I'm just telling you the mechanics of Assassin's Focus and how it can guarantee the critical.

 

Fast AS will be your best dpa attack whether it crits or not. For most sets I use it on cool down, or at least spam it a lot more than others might.

 

As for where you want the ATO hide proc i personally stray from conventional wisdom because:

It has a 10 sec lockout meaning assassin strike might be on of the worst places to put it given that it is your best attack .

 

I get why people do, it is easy and makes sense. It is just really poor optimization.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MoonSheep]

just adding onto what @bellona100 said to highlight it for importance Scarlet

 

put the chance to hide ATO as soon as possible in assassin's strike, it crits reliably allowing for a nice attack chain where you can get good damage from an AS and then a crit from the next attack, do two more attacks and bam, it's time to quick AS again

[Frosticus]

If you reference stons tests (which everyone seems to hold in high regard), his Stj chain is 8.712 seconds long, which given the hide proc has a 10 sec lockout it ends up forcing an 17.4sec cooldown on the proc because it literally can't fire on the second use of AS.

 

It may  be the ideal chain (it requires a nearly impossible 295% rech enhancement in CU after all, which almost all stj builds lack), but that's not because of the hide proc.

 

Do what you like, but remember the hide proc is 5ppm with a 10 sec lockout. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

52 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

If you reference stons tests (which everyone seems to hold in high regard), his Stj chain is 8.712 seconds long, which given the hide proc has a 10 sec lockout it ends up forcing an 17.4sec cooldown on the proc because it literally can't fire on the second use of AS.

 

It may  be the ideal chain (it requires a nearly impossible 295% rech enhancement in CU after all, which almost all stj builds lack), but that's not because of the hide proc.

 

Do what you like, but remember the hide proc is 5ppm with a 10 sec lockout. 

 

Truthfully Id din't get a lot of what you said here and I've never heard of the stons test so I may be missing something... 

 

again, dipping toes in water here. This is new territory for me, but it sounds like you're making the point that AS is akin to the old Blaster Nuke on live, which was eminently skippable because the damage it did was not worth the debilitating effects of your recovery crash leaving you borked while the enemies it didn't kill took their revenge on you

 

[Frosticus]

Not at all. Fast AS is your best power. More akin to blaze in fireblast. Use it as often as you can.

[Championess]

Usually I load AS with 3 melee winter sets to enhance dmg/acc and 3 dmg procs.  Or if I need to use it to regain hide I'll sub out a proc for the hide ATO.  As others are saying use it, lots, and mainly fast cast and look to get it to the critical orange ring if you can.

 

AS is at least the 2nd best attack you can take in your assault.  Take it, know it, love it.

 

Edited Monday at 06:01 AM by Championess

[tidge]

On 9/5/2025 at 3:53 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'm working on a Stalker, almost the first time ever, the name of Meatwave (StJ/DA)

 

I've just got my AS, and I'm thinking Combat Teleport would be useful to have - get me in, rip out the guy's spine, get out. 

 

But I also note that AS is quite a long duration, 8 seconds which is probably the time I take to identify said spine before ripping it out. Would that negate CT? Is it a useful power to take? 

 

I'd be interested in knowing what is a good technique and what powers I should and shouldn't take. 

 

Others have explained the slotting and use of AS, I want to >*BAMF*< in and write that I LOVE Combat Teleport on melee characters. Escaping with Combat Teleport is not really that important... I used to set up a bind and macro to escape on every CT character, but there is very little content that benefits melee characters. It is also incredibly useful to select a teammate to pop next to.

[Maelwys]

14 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

it sounds like you're making the point that AS is akin to the old Blaster Nuke on live, which was eminently skippable because the damage it did was not worth the debilitating effects of your recovery crash leaving you borked while the enemies it didn't kill took their revenge on you

Assassin's Strike itself is fantastic.
The "Chance for Hidden" ATO Proc however has a 10 second lockout period on when it can kick in.

+ So if you stick the proc in Assassin's Strike and you then use Assassin's Strike just over every 10 seconds?
Great. That means that 10 second lockout period on the proc's buff almost never impacts you.
+ But if you stick the proc in Assassin's Strike and you then use Assassin's Strike just under every 10 seconds?
Notsogood. As whenever the proc activates it'll be unable to activate again until after your next Assassin's Strike.

Now also consider that the "Chance for Hidden" proc comes with a built-in 23.2% Recharge enhancement aspect; which will lower the activation rate of any other damage procs that you happen to have slotted into whatever power you stick it into. So in some cases, sticking it in Assassin's Strike can actually lower your average damage output.

A few examples:
(i) On my Savage/Psi Stalker, Assassin's Strike cycles every 7.128 secs. So at most a "Chance for Hidden" proc can activate on 2 out of every 3 AS's.
(e.g. I'm performing 3x AS in 21.384 seconds; so if the proc activates on the 1st AS then it'll skip the 2nd AS and then have another chance to activate on the 3rd AS!)

(ii) On my Elec/Shield Stalker, the Assassin's Strike cycles are slightly lopsided as there are different attacks between them - 6.864 secs then 6.6 secs.
But again, at most a "Chance for Hidden" proc can activate on 2 out of every 3 AS's.
(That's 3x AS in 6.864+6.6+6.864=20.328s or 6.6+6.864+6.6=20.064s depending on the point in the chain!)

So the benefit that placing the "Chance for Hidden" proc in AS actually grants to my above two builds can be ballparked by taking the average additional "stealth crit" damage of whatever offensive power(s) immediately follow(s) Assassin's Strike (as that's what would actually get the benefit of you suddenly becoming "hidden"!); multiplying it by Proc Activation rate; then multiplying the result by 2/3rds. (Although in practice it'll be a bit better than this estimate, since if the proc outright fails its chance to activate on the first AS then it'll have a fresh opportunity to activate on the next one... but the above math is probably dense enough for most folk as it is!) 🙂
 

Edited Monday at 12:40 PM by Maelwys

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

Assassin's Strike itself is fantastic.
The "Chance for Hidden" ATO Proc however has a 10 second lockout period on when it can kick in.

+ So if you stick the proc in Assassin's Strike and you then use Assassin's Strike just over every 10 seconds?
Great. That means that 10 second lockout period on the proc's buff almost never impacts you.
+ But if you stick the proc in Assassin's Strike and you then use Assassin's Strike just under every 10 seconds?
Notsogood. As whenever the proc activates it'll be unable to activate again until after your next Assassin's Strike.

Now also consider that the "Chance for Hidden" proc comes with a built-in 23.2% Recharge enhancement aspect; which will lower the activation rate of any other damage procs that you happen to have slotted into whatever power you stick it into. So in some cases, sticking it in Assassin's Strike can actually lower your average damage output.

A few examples:
(i) On my Savage/Psi Stalker, Assassin's Strike cycles every 7.128 secs. So at most a "Chance for Hidden" proc can activate on 2 out of every 3 AS's.
(e.g. I'm performing 3x AS in 21.384 seconds; so if the proc activates on the 1st AS then it'll skip the 2nd AS and then have another chance to activate on the 3rd AS!)

(ii) On my Elec/Shield Stalker, the Assassin's Strike cycles are slightly lopsided as there are different attacks between them - 6.864 secs then 6.6 secs.
But again, at most a "Chance for Hidden" proc can activate on 2 out of every 3 AS's.
(That's 3x AS in 6.864+6.6+6.864=20.328s or 6.6+6.864+6.6=20.064s depending on the point in the chain!)

So the benefit that placing the "Chance for Hidden" proc in AS actually grants to my above two builds can be ballparked by taking the average additional "stealth crit" damage of whatever offensive power(s) immediately follow(s) Assassin's Strike (as that's what would actually get the benefit of you suddenly becoming "hidden"!); multiplying it by Proc Activation rate; then multiplying the result by 2/3rds. (Although in practice it'll be a bit better than this estimate, since if the proc outright fails its chance to activate on the first AS then it'll have a fresh opportunity to activate on the next one... but the above math is probably dense enough for most folk as it is!) 🙂
 

 

So is it better to leave the Proc out or should I wait until my attack chain takes over 10 seconds? 😁

[MoonSheep]

30 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

So is it better to leave the Proc out or should I wait until my attack chain takes over 10 seconds? 😁

 

put the proc in and continue to live your life, it’s fine. i wouldn’t overthink it

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

 

put the proc in and continue to live your life, it’s fine. i wouldn’t overthink it

This.

Whilst one thing or another might be "better"... if you don't speak spreadsheet and have never found yourself hunched over the keyboard buildcrafting until 2am then honestly just slot whatever you like. And avoid any Scrapper threads that include more than one page worth of people using the term "ATO2".

[Frosticus]

From a gameplay loop and QoL standpoint it fits in AS wonderfully.

 

But don't confuse that with minmaxing as AS is rarely the optimal place to put it. The lockout is a hidden mechanic so presumably most builders aren't aware of it.

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 9/8/2025 at 4:57 PM, Maelwys said:

This.

Whilst one thing or another might be "better"... if you don't speak spreadsheet and have never found yourself hunched over the keyboard buildcrafting until 2am then honestly just slot whatever you like. And avoid any Scrapper threads that include more than one page worth of people using the term "ATO2".

 

I feel like I'm having a "Four Candles" reaction to this as in "well why didn't you just say so?" 

 

Thank you 👍