Melee + Support archetype

[Beet]

I would like to see an archetype that combined melee and support sets, unsure which would be primary/secondary (I'll default to Melee/Support for examples but I believe this would be a good opportunity to have both a second primary support and secondary melee AT), but ultimately I'd like the opportunity to play the combination. I'd like to play a Broadsword/Marine pirate, I'd like a Titan Weapons/Storm inspired by Thor, a Dual Blades/Pain sadist villain, a Street Justice/Traps vigilante, a Kinetics/Kinetics speedster. There's a lot of potential here conceptually, the problem comes with "You're melee, you're going to take a lot of damage running in but have no defense sets". First, a lot of support sets have their own mitigation, I challenge anyone to prove a Dark Miasma character has no survivability, but that doesn't cover every set; For every Rad Melee/Dark Miasma there would be a Claws/Empathy, so for the meat of this (I daresay) common suggestion I'd like to offer some passives that might not directly break some sets over others.

 

• Passive combat stealth, functioning like Dark Armor's Cloak of Darkness; A passive stealth which doesn't drop in combat, giving you opportunity to avoid aggro from enemies as you skirt the outside of combat to support before you enter melee and make your presence known. This wouldn't help solo beyond the ability to stealth some missions.
• Placate utilization, a mechanic that isn't used much outside of Stalkers, placating enemies to reduce your aggro could be an alternative tool from stealth to moderate aggro. It could have a chance to placate on attack, or a chance for a PBAoE placate when using a support power.
• Attacks provide a survivability buff, either a stacking buff or (for example) a flat 20% resistance and defense that refreshes whenever you attack. Could be coupled with support powers applying a stacking or flat damage buff. If both, they could have a 5 second duration, supporting a play style where you alternate between attack and support to keep your personal buffs up
• A Fury bar that increases survivability instead of damage, so survivability increases the longer combat goes on for. In a team this incentivizes someone else initiating fights and solo it rewards aggressive gameplay to keep the bar up.
• The passive does nothing to support survivability directly, but the support set is instead a mix of a defense set and a support set, giving them some mitigation and reduced support capability (Empathy/Regeneration, Storm/Electric Armor, Poison/Bio Armor etc.). The passive could then be something like attacks buff secondary effects and support buffs damage, or a Fury bar that buffs secondary effects or causes an increasing radial ally buff and/or enemy debuff
• Some combination of the above; Melee attacks buff secondary effects, support powers buff damage or survivability/Melee attacks have a chance for PBAoE placate and self stealth/Passive out of combat survivability buff and a Fury bar that charges slowly but diminishes the passive buff

[Uun]

I'm not going to spend the time to search and link them all, but this has been suggested many, many times.

[Ghost]

Im curious what the fascination with a melee/support set is.

Sounds like a set like this could make support sets nearly worthless.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Beet said:

I would like to see an archetype that combined melee and support sets

IMHO, I would take a much simpler route;  Have the support powers be the primary, and the melee sets the secondary.  The melee sets would pretty much remain unchanged, (though not sure if this AT would get the brute or scrapper versions).  The primary/support sets are where the magic happens - For sets that get ally-only shields and status protection powers, change those into PBAoEs that also buff the caster, (self-buffing values would be adjusted as needed).  For sets that don't have such powers, further tweaks would have to be made.  For instance, while kinetics has an ally-status protection power in ID, something like inertial reduction would probably be removed and replaced with a PBAoE power that grants other forms of damage resistance, and also a jump height buff, (kind of like toroidal bubble from marine).  

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Beet said:

..Broadsword/Marine pirate, I'd like a Titan Weapons/Storm inspired by Thor, a Dual Blades/Pain sadist villain, a Street Justice/Traps vigilante, a Kinetics/Kinetics speedster

 

Interesting.

 

This looks different from a Paladin style. I could definitely work many Melees with Dark Miasma and love it.

Twilight Grasp 
Tar Patch
Darkest Night
Howling Twilight
Shadow Fall 
Fearsome Stare
Petrifying Gaze skip
Black Hole skip
Dark Servant

 

I agree with @biostem asking for the Defender numbers (support as a Primary) could make for stronger survivability.

 

 

Edited September 27 by Troo

[Beet]

There seems to be a misunderstanding with what I'm saying, I want an archetype with support sets and melee sets, not an archetype where one of the powerset choices is some amalgamation of melee and support.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

Im curious what the fascination with a melee/support set is.

Sounds like a set like this could make support sets nearly worthless.

Some people would prefer a style of play where you support your teammates while in the thick of things, so to speak, and while some defenders/corruptors/controllers/masterminds might be able to pull it off under certain circumstances, they generally aren't robust enough to do so.  A supprt/melee or melee/support AT, would be...

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

Some people would prefer a style of play where you support your teammates while in the thick of things, so to speak, and while some defenders/corruptors/controllers/masterminds might be able to pull it off under certain circumstances, they generally aren't robust enough to do so.  A supprt/melee or melee/support AT, would be...

Not really. A melee/support AT would have to be in the thick of things to use their attacks, but would probably not be any more robust than the Defenders, Corruptors, Controllers, and Masterminds mentioned. Because the melee/support would still be lacking AT-provided armor powers just like them. And when the fighting gets bad, will probably abandon using their melee attacks to hang back and throw support powers from a safe(r) distance.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against the OP. (Like @Ghost, I don't understand the attraction, but oh well.) What I am saying is your provided logic of robustness doesn't hold up. (As for the first part of your response about preferring to support their teammates in the thick of things? Well, range attacks don't suddenly stop working when you close to melee and there are players like me that are routinely in the thick of things when on a team doing the whole support bit with our Corruptors and Masterminds [and Defenders or Controllers for those that play them]. So that part can already be done. It's being different as a melee type that seems to be the draw to me, but again, I don't really get the attraction.)

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Not really. A melee/support AT would have to be in the thick of things to use their attacks, but would probably not be any more robust than the Defenders, Corruptors, Controllers, and Masterminds mentioned. Because the melee/support would still be lacking AT-provided armor powers just like them. And when the fighting gets bad, will probably abandon using their melee attacks to hang back and throw support powers from a safe(r) distance.

Which is why, in my proposal, those support sets would have to be adjusted to account for that...

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

Which is why, in my proposal, those support sets would have to be adjusted to account for that...

You responded before I could edit, so I'll put my edit here.

 

Previous comment edit: It would also be a very solo unfriendly, or at least high risk, AT. Because it is a melee AT, it will aggro more than one group of enemies at a time. Pretty much just on specific maps, but it will without a doubt happen. And the AT won't have the armor for it.

[Azari]

Battle Axe/Kinetics 🤩

Edited September 27 by Azari

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And the AT won't have the armor for it.

I accounted for that in my proposal...

[MTeague]

All things are possible (well, not really, but people like hearing that).  So, if the Devs choose to create this, I will be curious to see the final result. 

 

However, we already have people saying that there's no good "niche" for Stalkers, and Scrapper, and Brutes, and Tankers, that one of them is always going to be left out in the cold. Given that, I would be surprised if they chose to great a Fifth Melee archtype, and I would be very very surprised, if they chose to provide powersets that were a mix of armor toggles and melee attacks. That said, I have been surprised before, many times. 

 

Honestly, if you want to feel decently safe in melee, and stab and slash, and still provide support to teammates, Night Widow says Hi.

[LightMaster]

25 minutes ago, MTeague said:

However, we already have people saying that there's no good "niche" for Stalkers, and Scrapper, and Brutes, and Tankers, that one of them is always going to be left out in the cold. Given that, I would be surprised if they chose to great a Fifth Melee archtype, and I would be very very surprised, if they chose to provide powersets that were a mix of armor toggles and melee attacks. That said, I have been surprised before, many times. 

Why would be Tankers have no good “niches”? Being by far the tankiest AT, at least in the Melee category, and great at aggro control is a good reason we see in a variety of teams, be it casual to even Four Stars contents.

 

I do think making the four existing Melee archetypes more distinct beyond numerical numbers and Inherents should take priority over trying to make a new Melee archetype, though. Stalker having Hide being Endurance-free stealth is a big start, so is Tanker’s big aggro control and specialty on survivability, leaving Scrappers (outdone by Corruptors, not just Blasters in damage) and Brutes in a rut.

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, LightMaster said:

Why would be Tankers have no good “niches”? Being by far the tankiest AT, at least in the Melee category, and great at aggro control is a good reason we see in a variety of teams, be it casual to even Four Stars contents.

 

I do think making the four existing Melee archetypes more distinct beyond numerical numbers and Inherents should take priority over trying to make a new Melee archetype, though. Stalker having Hide being Endurance-free stealth is a big start, so is Tanker’s big aggro control and specialty on survivability, leaving Scrappers (outdone by Corruptors, not just Blasters in damage) and Brutes in a rut.

 

Tankers are in a very good spot now. They were gods before the June patch. 

However, if you go back a year or two before that, I saw many people saying basically "Why bring a Tanker, just use Broots?"

 

But that very same patch that make Tanks do very good AoE damage is when more than a few decided they were done with Brutes.

 

Me personally, I will always have some of each, because my OCD demands I have a perfect distribution of ATs in my character roster.  (No, I don't make sense. I'm mostly OK with that). But there are a lot of people who do very much go by numbers and spreadsheets, and want to make sure their favorite AT isn't "a waste". I have never seen a point where all four melee AT's felt like they were simultaneously in a good spot. 

Edited September 27 by MTeague