page 3 UNFOCUSED FEEDBACK - Bio Armor

[arcane]

So, this morning's discussion with Neiska revealed to me that some people may be experiencing severe cases of selective memory. I decided to quickly type out some examples of powersets or archetypes that have all been substantially improved under the Homecoming years. I won't be including minor buffs (like Melt Armor cooldown reduction or Thunder Strike animation reduction or whatever) because the purpose of this is not to make this list as long as possible. I just want to go down the list of powersets and see how many things I can come up with just from my own memory that have indisputably been sizable net buffs. This is stuff that's already live, not counting all the buffs on beta.

 

Entire Controller Archetype

Entire Sentinel Archetype

Entire Tanker Archetype

Assault Rifle

Electrical Blast

Sonic Attack

Devices

Gravity Control

Ice Control

Force Field

Traps

Trick Arrow

Battle Axe

Dark Melee

Energy Melee

Fiery Melee

Stone Melee

Dark Armor

Electric Armor

Ice Armor

Regeneration

Stone Armor

Bane Spider Soldier

Widow Teamwork

 

That's just a start. If you would like to nitpick at this, I can counter with a hundred more minor buffs that I left out for now, if you wanna go that route. TL;DR I don't know what the #NeverNerf lobby is talking about. 

 

Edited December 14 by arcane
ope how did I forget Fiery Melee buffs of all things lol

[ScarySai]

[Super Atom]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

Entire Controller Archetype

 

You can only add controller when -end isn't poop from a butt

 

 

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

 

You can only add controller when -end isn't poop from a butt

 

 

I don't know what that even means though I agree sapping is not the way to go. Was thinking more about controllable pets and deep sleep and fear triggering containment and pet damage getting containment and stuff like that but right on. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

Is this the bio armor thread, or the Arcane's opinion about balance thread?

 

It did seem like that focused feedback thread was going way off the rails, so all this unfocused commentary was moved to it's own thread.

 

If you want to talk about where Bio ranks in the Pantheon of armor sets or anything else other than focused feedback on the proposed changes  you are in the right place. 

 

If you want to discuss the proposed changes to Bio (even though many of them are being shelved or changed), go there: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/62014-focused-feedback-bio-armor-adjustments/

 

[Neiska]

53 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

 

After that last post of theirs, I just added them to the list I simply won't interact with anymore. Suffice to say, if they felt the need to go off on a tandem, mayhap there is more to what I said than they let on. Because God forbid people like something else or point things out, apparently. Best for me just not to engage with them anymore. 

 

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

So, this morning's discussion with Neiska revealed to me that some people may be experiencing severe cases of selective memory. I decided to quickly type out some examples of powersets or archetypes that have all been substantially improved under the Homecoming years. I won't be including minor buffs (like Melt Armor cooldown reduction or Thunder Strike animation reduction or whatever) because the purpose of this is not to make this list as long as possible. I just want to go down the list of powersets and see how many things I can come up with just from my own memory that have indisputably been sizable net buffs. This is stuff that's already live, not counting all the buffs on beta.

 

Entire Controller Archetype - Nope.

Entire Sentinel Archetype - No? Lol

Entire Tanker Archetype - Done well, then made bad later.

Assault Rifle - Despite beanbag, done well.

Electrical Blast - Done well.

Sonic Attack - one of the most hated reworks.

Devices - not really. Cobalt made the one good change after the fact.

Gravity Control - no?

Ice Control - again, no.

Force Field - well done.

Traps - ???

Trick Arrow - Done well

Battle Axe - done well - on axe-ident

Dark Melee - objectively made worse.

Energy Melee - well done for scrapper and stalker specifically.

Fiery Melee - Not a ton was done here.

Stone Melee - phoned in, fault is a mess.

Dark Armor - Overdue.

Electric Armor - overdue.

Ice Armor - overdue (see the trend here?)

Regeneration - not even buffed enough.

Stone Armor - Good changes.

Bane Spider Soldier - not nearly enough was done.

Widow Teamwork - not nearly enough was done for forts.

 

 

 

 

The revisionist history is cute. We're almost at the point where hc is as old as CoH and this is what we have to show for it?

 

Controllers as an at weren't touched at all in a meaningful capacity , and continue to be neglected. Terrorize proccing containment doesn't fix controllers, it just makes some sets functional for controllers that weren't before.

 

And mind control on a controller is still pathetic. Why are we making things up?

Edited December 14 by ScarySai

[Maelwys]

50 minutes ago, arcane said:

I don't know what that even means though I agree sapping is not the way to go. Was thinking more about controllable pets and deep sleep and fear triggering containment and pet damage getting containment and stuff like that but right on. 

I still can't believe they buffed Illusion of all things.
OK not directly (other than being able to order Phantasm around) but i28p2 gave Containment damage on Spooky's Feared mobs and anything slept recently by Blind...

[ScarySai]

10 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

It did seem like that focused feedback thread was going way off the rails, so all this unfocused commentary was moved to it's own thread.

 

 

I'm going to give you a crumb of credit here: this is a much better way to handle this.

[FupDup]

I'll repeat the bit I said early in the original FF Bio thread...

 

Basically, Bio is a great case study of how relative balance can and does shift despite the "absolute balance" (raw number stats) remaining the same up until now. Once upon a time, when TW/Bio Scrappers were the kings of the land, Bio cemented itself in peoples' minds as this super duper strong set, which it was. The devs intended to nerf Bio for a long time, but pushback in Closed Beta caused it to keep getting pushed back and softened up a bit (it could've been so much worse, trust me). 

 

In the meantime, nearly all armor sets in the game were buffed, some of which like Stone, Elec, and Dark were buffed by pretty crazy proportions. In the olden days, Bio had very little competition for the top spot. But now, there are some legitimately very powerful competitors eyeballing that throne. Normally, the HC devs don't want to buff everything up to the power of the strongest sets, like Fire Blast in the ranged category, but in the armor category they kind of accidentally forgot about that rule and did buff everything to be pretty close to Bio's level. I'm not trying to argue that Bio is bad now, because it's not, but there are some genuinely strong choices now that could not previously measure up. 

 

Ultimately, the Bio nerfs were designed for a bygone era that has long passed. 

[arcane]

10 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

The revisionist history is cute. We're almost at the point where hc is as old as CoH and this is what we have to show for it?

 

Controllers as an at weren't touched at all in a meaningful capacity , and continue to be neglected. Terrorize proccing containment doesn't fix controllers, it just makes some sets functional for controllers that weren't before.

 

And mind control on a controller is still pathetic. Why are we making things up?

Agree to disagree I guess. Seems like a lot of buffs to me.

 

Containment changes are admittedly the thing I notice the least on Controllers, compared to T9 pets and sleeps becoming desirable powers.

 

I agree with you that Controllers haven't been fixed in some larger sense because we still reside in City of Damage; they're a good bit better at what they do now, but I certainly agree they don't really have a role on 4 star teams or things like that when we can just play Corruptors and Defenders and do damage. 

[ScarySai]

@FupDup It's also the fact bio was NEVER top tier on surviving. Ever.

 

If you want to live forever? You go shield or Sr and laugh at the entire game.

 

Want to kill things faster? Well your options are bio and fire, but they effectively killed fire as a valid option until this patch. Brimstone is nice, but doesn't come close to cutting it.

 

Bio on its own is actually rather poor at handling difficult mobs, it has zero debuff protections. The one advantage bio does have is the same as regen: its Regeneration, max hp and absorb are very good in a situation where barrier cycling and cold buffs cover all resists and defenses.

 

Don't believe me? Go fight +5 arachnos without barrier or insps, tell me how that goes for you while my scrappers laugh at it.

Edited December 14 by ScarySai

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

28 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

I'm going to give you a crumb of credit here: this is a much better way to handle this.

 

[arcane]

I am confused about the disconnect and thinking that people are perhaps not in agreement on the definition of the word buff in this context. The only thing I can think of is perhaps some of the posters above are thinking "it doesn't count as a buff if I don't personally find the buff to be adequate/sufficient". Which is not a premise I would agree to. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Why does your confusion seem like an invitation to start an argument?

[skoryy]

4 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Controllers as an at weren't touched at all in a meaningful capacity

 

Other than improved containment, improved pets, improved sleeps, and the area holds put on adaptive recharge.

 

On the other hand, Plant got a nerf, so who's to say?

[ScarySai]

14 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

Other than improved containment, improved pets, improved sleeps, and the area holds put on adaptive recharge.

 

On the other hand, Plant got a nerf, so who's to say?

 

1) Containment is a shitty band-aid solution that doesn't work for the problem of controller damage. The person who worked on powers for paragon would tell you the exact same thing.

 

If it were up to either of us, we would remove containment and rebalance control set damage across the board.

 

2) sleeps and adaptive holds arent a Controller fix. They fix specific sets due to inconsistent application. Great for mind doms, terrible for elec, plant and gravity controllers, for example.

 

Making it work on fear just makes it functional for sets like illusion and mind.

 

3) Pets weren't improved beyond basic radial controls. A wise person once said about masterminds: "if basic radial controls count as a major feature of the AT, we really are fucked."

Edited December 15 by ScarySai

[skoryy]

Okay, so it wasn't a "meaningful capacity" for you.  Now how about the rest of the player base?

[Super Atom]

hey so would this be a good spot to bring up coyote form again 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

7 hours ago, Super Atom said:

hey so would this be a good spot to bring up coyote form again 

 

Do you like Road Runners?

[Coyote]

10 hours ago, Super Atom said:

hey so would this be a good spot to bring up coyote form again 

 

I'm still waiting for when that's a viable power in-game. Right now, it's kinda nerfed.

[Coyote]

15 hours ago, skoryy said:

Okay, so it wasn't a "meaningful capacity" for you.  Now how about the rest of the player base?

 

I came back this fall after not playing for like 4-5 years. I'm exceedingly pleased with:
 - adaptive recharge made many AoE controls worth taking
 - getting Containment on Fears is nice... a bit niche, but nice on the characters that have Fear. 
 - MMs getting their set bonuses passed partially to the henchmen is huge. Oh, and about that Robots nerf? Last time I had played mine, the Full Laser Burst from the bots took like 5 seconds to activate. If you go back far enough, Bots got buffed, not nerfed.

 - some great new sets for Controllers

 

However, one major change was bad: they buffed Regen? Seriously? But "nerf regin" was one of the core features of every new expansion! How did we ever get away from that? 😆

[Super Atom]

3 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

Do you like Road Runners?

 

Not in particular...  💣

 

22 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

I'm still waiting for when that's a viable power in-game. Right now, it's kinda nerfed.

 

If you're kinetics, the jump and the speed siphon work on coyote 🙏

Edited December 15 by Super Atom

[Shin Magmus]

Curses, GoogleMoogled again.

[DrunkFlux]

On 12/14/2025 at 7:23 AM, arcane said:

You’re disputing that Fiery Melee is better now than it was in 2019? Are you sure?

Fire melee was given -defense which is what effected the fire farmers, and honestly not even a topic for game balance but the old topic of farmers and the impact they've had on this game.  They hated the buffs to fire melee BECAUSE it made it harder for THEM to farm as much exp when the mobs(who all at the time used exclusively fire attacks the fire farmers were immune to due to max def vs fire + max resist vs fire) could defense cascade them(which'd break their immunity).  All it did was make them remove fire sword powers from the mobs which lowered exp slightly which is the biggest sin to them of all: lowering there exp gains.  All that matters to them: exp per hour is there precious as the one ring is to golem.

 

I think thats what they are actually talking about.