Pylon Damage Thread

[Bill Z Bubba]

Best time on beta with nrgmel/bio scrapper is 1:36. Running EP/TF/EP/ET/BS/repeat. Have the scrapper +50% crit proc in EP so TF will crit more and I'll get nrg focus on both ET and BS.

My mace/bio on live is still better than that with much better aoe.

And I still absolutely dislike the way they went with EM.

It's disappointing.

[Moonlighter]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Best time on beta with nrgmel/bio scrapper is 1:36. Running EP/TF/EP/ET/BS/repeat. Have the scrapper +50% crit proc in EP so TF will crit more and I'll get nrg focus on both ET and BS.

My mace/bio on live is still better than that with much better aoe.

And I still absolutely dislike the way they went with EM.

It's disappointing.

I don't know if "this is now as good as Mace" is a reasonable benchmark to expect without being disappointed. After previous TW, Mace was an outlier. Not enough that I want nerfs, but enough that I don't need sets to do that level of DPS.

 

On another note, what tricks are you using to get *half* my time? Is Bio making that much of a difference? Or are there proc tricks that are standard that I need to learn?

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Moonlighter said:

On another note, what tricks are you using to get *half* my time? Is Bio making that much of a difference? Or are there proc tricks that are standard that I need to learn?

It's bio. My claws/bio scrapper usually sits around a minute or more faster on pylon times than my claws/sr scrapper.

Pretty standard slotting. Full Superior Crit Strikes in EP. Full Hecatomb in TF. Full Gladiator's Strike in ET. Superior Scrap Strike in BS. Full Armageddon set in Genetic Contamination. Ton of recharge.

 

Edit: And it's not the damage I'm disappointed with, just the way it was done. EM didn't need gimmicks. It just needed the cast times reduced.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Moonlighter]

13 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It's bio. My claws/bio scrapper usually sits around a minute or more faster on pylon times than my claws/sr scrapper.

Pretty standard slotting. Full Superior Crit Strikes in EP. Full Hecatomb in TF. Full Gladiator's Strike in ET. Superior Scrap Strike in BS. Full Armageddon set in Genetic Contamination. Ton of recharge.

 

Edit: And it's not the damage I'm disappointed with, just the way it was done. EM didn't need gimmicks. It just needed the cast times reduced.

 

Oh I see. Yes, I agree that in a game with such a dynamic play with full groups the desire to move to gimmicks that give WoW like attack chains is not needed and detracts from play. Reacting to content with the correct attack for the situation should be more about what you are fighting. I love WoW but the enforcement of the holy trinity means that complicated attack chains are needed in that game to keep things interesting.

 

[nihilii]

(In the current I27 build) Eagle Claw's taking Arma and Fury procs is magnificent.

Just got 530 DPS in just 2 tries (1st was 480). On a MA/SD/Body Mastery with Rebirth. That is: no snipe, no Ageless. Beautiful. I didn't even optimize the build yet, just a port from Live switching Heca and ATO to Storm Kick, and Arma + Fury + procs in EC.

 

I'm running SK -> EC -> SK -> CAK -> CS. I think at the very least CS should be swapped for Thunder Kick, minimize filler time. Ideally, make that a snipe and use the snipe instead of TK every 2 cycles.

 

Might be time for a MA/Bio/Soul.

Edited October 25, 2020 by nihilii

[Moonlighter]

Yes, that leaves MA with -Res procs in two out of three attacks in that chain.

 

I didn't change out EC for procs after the change, still I am getting no where near those times and I don't think those procs would account for that much difference?

 

 

[nihilii]

1 hour ago, Moonlighter said:

I didn't change out EC for procs after the change, still I am getting no where near those times and I don't think those procs would account for that much difference?

You might be surprised. But just to be thorough, I am leaning heavily on procs everywhere.

SK = Heca dam, dam/end, proc, Mako proc, ToD proc, Critical Strikes proc

CAK = Mako proc, ToD proc, Lady Grey proc, Achilles Heel proc, 2 dam IOs

CS = Mako proc, ToD proc, Glad Strike proc, 2 dam, 1 dam/end
EC = Arma proc, Arma dam, Arma dam/end, Fury proc, Eradication proc, Obliteration proc

[Moonlighter]

47 minutes ago, nihilii said:

You might be surprised. But just to be thorough, I am leaning heavily on procs everywhere.

SK = Heca dam, dam/end, proc, Mako proc, ToD proc, Critical Strikes proc

CAK = Mako proc, ToD proc, Lady Grey proc, Achilles Heel proc, 2 dam IOs

CS = Mako proc, ToD proc, Glad Strike proc, 2 dam, 1 dam/end
EC = Arma proc, Arma dam, Arma dam/end, Fury proc, Eradication proc, Obliteration proc

Wow no accuracy, no recharge? No wonder you need a filler.

 

It makes me sad that proc mules are *that* effective.

 

Also I don't know that this build would work with no accuracy on +4 content with only Kismet, Tactics, and globals? Have you played it in other content?

[Moonlighter]

 

So I have a Savage/Bio scrapper sub two minutes using Savage Slash - Viscious Slash - Savage Slash - Maiming Slash. Not a proc mule.

 

Note that on /Bio, Blood Thirst is a DPS loss since the 40% damage boost is so dilluted that the frenzy charges don't do anything useful. 2.2 activation; woof.

 

I want to test if Hemorrhage is worth it now, but I am not sure where to start?

 

Thoughts?

 

[nihilii]

Just now, Moonlighter said:

Also I don't know that this build would work with no accuracy on +4 content with only Kismet, Tactics, and globals? Have you played it in other content?

All my builds are basically like that these days. I shoot for 100-110% final accuracy against +3s, which makes them viable against +4s with level shift.

 

It definitely requires more tradeoffs than the old paradigm. which is a plus for me - I love having to think long and hard in Mids, rather than just plop 5-piece or 6-piece sets chasing defense and recharge bonuses and call it a day. But it's not for everyone: I'm not even sure I'm softcapped on this character.

[Moonlighter]

1 minute ago, nihilii said:

All my builds are basically like that these days. I shoot for 100-110% final accuracy against +3s, which makes them viable against +4s with level shift.

 

It definitely requires more tradeoffs than the old paradigm. which is a plus for me - I love having to think long and hard in Mids, rather than just plop 5-piece or 6-piece sets chasing defense and recharge bonuses and call it a day. But it's not for everyone: I'm not even sure I'm softcapped on this character.

 

Not soft capped? Do you have enough regen to recover from strings of pylon hits on Shield?

 

 

[nihilii]

Just now, Moonlighter said:

Not soft capped? Do you have enough regen to recover from strings of pylon hits on Shield?

I don't mean that I have 30% def or anything (which in itself, would already make 2 hits in a row fairly rare). More like that I may be somewhere in the 42-44% range rather than 45%. It's not a perceptible difference against something like a Pylon, which does low enough damage you're not going to be worried on any scrapper. But it would probably make me significantly weaker in a no insps +4/x8 ITF challenge.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I don't mean that I have 30% def or anything (which in itself, would already make 2 hits in a row fairly rare). More like that I may be somewhere in the 42-44% range rather than 45%. It's not a perceptible difference against something like a Pylon, which does low enough damage you're not going to be worried on any scrapper. But it would probably make me significantly weaker in a no insps +4/x8 ITF challenge.

But can you Werner rules and ITF that way?

Edit: I should have read the whole post. Nevermind.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Tsuko]

9 hours ago, nihilii said:

(In the current I27 build) Eagle Claw's taking Arma and Fury procs is magnificent.

Just got 530 DPS in just 2 tries (1st was 480). On a MA/SD/Body Mastery with Rebirth. That is: no snipe, no Ageless. Beautiful. I didn't even optimize the build yet, just a port from Live switching Heca and ATO to Storm Kick, and Arma + Fury + procs in EC.

 

I'm running SK -> EC -> SK -> CAK -> CS. I think at the very least CS should be swapped for Thunder Kick, minimize filler time. Ideally, make that a snipe and use the snipe instead of TK every 2 cycles.

 

Might be time for a MA/Bio/Soul.

and idk if you notice but mélée ST IO slot in EC will remain, so if you had "by chance" an hecatomb proc on your EC... 😄

[nihilii]

1 hour ago, Tsuko said:

and idk if you notice but mélée ST IO slot in EC will remain, so if you had "by chance" an hecatomb proc on your EC...

Haha, I hear you! That was my first thought upon reading the patch notes. Although on second thought it doesn't seem optimal, so not worth making a fuzz on the Beta boards.

 

Still, the first thing I did upon logging in was replace half of my IOs in EC with Arma. So it looked like Heca proc, Heca dam, Heca dam/end, Arma proc, Arma dam, Arma dam/end. Mostly useless, and hence utterly necessary.

 

Optimal or not, it is funny to think there will be the odd unicorn running around with that sort of slotting.

[Tsuko]

3 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Haha, I hear you! That was my first thought upon reading the patch notes. Although on second thought it doesn't seem optimal, so not worth making a fuzz on the Beta boards.

 

Still, the first thing I did upon logging in was replace half of my IOs in EC with Arma. So it looked like Heca proc, Heca dam, Heca dam/end, Arma proc, Arma dam, Arma dam/end. Mostly useless, and hence utterly necessary.

 

Optimal or not, it is funny to think there will be the odd unicorn running around with that sort of slotting.

Not to mention, Dragon tail is an awesome soft control, with a good / very good DPS ST attack set, now with kinda good debuff and a bit better multi target clearing...

 

 

 

[Tsuko]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:54 PM, nihilii said:

SD

dam i had not read, 530 on a shield in single target only Oo

 

grats lol

 

Could you share the build pls ? 🙂 i could use it on a thematic toon 😛 (sort of Captain France :p)

[Moonlighter]

I don't know how I feel about my Martial Arts builds becoming flavor of the month. 😝

[Moonlighter]

Next post: I am testing claws trying to see if I can get some decent pylon times. Not top, but decent. I did okay with DB (more on that in another post) but my claw times are bad. Like 3:45 with full incarnates. Also I though with energize I would be okay on Endurance. I was wrong, even keeping my defense oriented toggles off. I must be doing something wrong; I have been well above the 3 minute mark with incarnates.

 

My attack chain is Follow Up - Slash - Focus - Shockwave - Follow Up - Slash - Focus - Zapp

 

I tried to keep recharge as low as possible to use procs, and was hoping that my electric field with Follow Up's damage boost would be a nice add.

 

Here is the build.

 

(My first change would be to go back to jumping, both because Hover is a pig and because Grounded.)

 

Thoughts?

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1503&c=702&a=1404&f=HEX&dc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

[Moonlighter]

 

Let's talk about Dual Blades and the enforced 5% miss chance in the game.

 

Is anyone else finding the the Attack Vitals chain is *wildly* variable because of the 5% miss chance? Like I am seeing a variance along the lines of 33%. If any of the four attacks in my chain miss, each of which is 5%, then it brutalizes my damage for that entire cycle. I am seeing times ranging from 2:20 up to 3:45 which is crazy variance.

 

I have long thought that the 5% miss chance was terrible; a hold over from tabletop D&D? Most games don't do misses, and while I don't want to erase the build meta around needing to build for accuracy I feel that 5% is not a good experience, It really punishes combo sets, and is unnecessary. While I'd love to just let the hit chance hit 100% if built correctly, even changing this to have a ceiling of 98% or 99% would be better.

 

As an aside, I have no idea how people play stalkers. Missing an Assassin's Strike drives me nuts, and it happens 20, 30, 40 times in a night depending on the havoc I am wreaking.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Moonlighter

[Tsuko]

1 hour ago, Moonlighter said:

I don't know how I feel about my Martial Arts builds becoming flavor of the month. 😝

hey ! i took so many EC in my face in RV back to live that i knew the size of each boot of hero/heroine :x

Now it's NOT yours only anymore ! HAHA ! 😛

 

48 minutes ago, Moonlighter said:

claws

@Bill Z Bubba and @Sovera have tons of posts about Claws cooked on lot of AT 🙂 check their history

 

40 minutes ago, Moonlighter said:

Let's talk about Dual Blades and the enforced 5% miss chance in the game. [...] As an aside, I have no idea how people play stalkers. Missing an Assassin's Strike drives me nuts, and it happens 20, 30, 40 times in a night depending on the havoc I am wreaking.

Yeah that 5% miss chance (and his counter part, the 5% chance to hit) are old fashion habit of MMO. a set / power or whatever ways to avoid this would be welcome, overpowered with the fight mechanic of CoX, but welcome.

About stalker, in Pve, it's easy they almost never use the slow AS, just to open on an AV or to try the one/two shot on softer targets.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Tsuko

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 hours ago, Moonlighter said:

My attack chain is Follow Up - Slash - Focus - Shockwave - Follow Up - Slash - Focus - Zapp

With followup, focus, slash, repeat, I get 3 mins with my claws/sr (no damage aura) and (I think) 1:45 or so with my claws/bio. I really should start a log of those pylon times.

Since claws attacks are low on recharge as it is, I've never thought that going proc-monster would work out too well. I generally stick with AT IO full sets in Followup, 5 Hecatomb + Achilles Heel in Slash and 5 Apocalypse + GladJav proc in Focus.

[nihilii]

17 hours ago, Tsuko said:

Could you share the build pls ? 🙂 i could use it on a thematic toon 😛 (sort of Captain France :p)

I think this is the build I copied:

Spoiler

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I put Heca proc, dam, dam/end, Critical Strikes in Storm Kick, and kept Touch of Death proc and Gladiatior's Smash.
I put Arma proc, dam, dam/end, Eradication, Obliteration and Fury -res in Eagle's Claw.

I stuffed Dragon's Tail with an Obliteration set (it wasn't well thought out, I just did all these changes in the two minutes after logging in).

[Moonlighter]

11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

With followup, focus, slash, repeat, I get 3 mins with my claws/sr (no damage aura) and (I think) 1:45 or so with my claws/bio. I really should start a log of those pylon times.

Since claws attacks are low on recharge as it is, I've never thought that going proc-monster would work out too well. I generally stick with AT IO full sets in Followup, 5 Hecatomb + Achilles Heel in Slash and 5 Apocalypse + GladJav proc in Focus.

Thanks. A three minute benchmark is great and I can fine tune to get that. I am glad I can see good returns without having to making strings of procs, outside Scrapsnipes.

 

An observation:, because I didn't go through the intellectual and emotional energy of theory-crafting proc usage to increase DPS, I don't like feeling forced to build that way to compete. If I had returned earlier and was bored of standard design patterns and had theory crafted and demonstrated the techniques I would likely have a different opinion and enjoy the option.

[Bill Z Bubba]

33 minutes ago, Moonlighter said:

An observation:, because I didn't go through the intellectual and emotional energy of theory-crafting proc usage to increase DPS, I don't like feeling forced to build that way to compete. If I had returned earlier and was bored of standard design patterns and had theory crafted and demonstrated the techniques I would likely have a different opinion and enjoy the option.

I accept slightly lower DPS in order to avoid heavy number crunching these days. When I saw the equations behind the PPM system my response was simply, "nope, too damn lazy for that."

Edited October 27, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba