Pylon Damage Thread

[Moonlighter]

My assumption here is that global damage does affect proc damage? I will have to go test it maybe using a proc and Assault or something. I was under the impression that global damage did not affect procs, but if that was the case then Bio's damage should be mitigated by, not exaggerated by, proc heavy chains.

 

Unless the Bio numbers are much more from the built in -Res and -Regen than the +Dam?

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Okay, after some tests global damage does not appear to affect procs. Using Eagle's Claw with only the purple damage proc, I am seeing EC damage climbing when I activate Assault but the proc damage stays exactly the same either way. A simple test, but I would have to dismantle a build or rebuild from scratch to test more complex interactions.

 

Anyway given that procs aren't affected by global damage the delta between Bio straight up and Bio without procs should be smaller than for other sets without as much global damage?

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Moonlighter

[Gobbledigook]

New Bio/EM Tanker  T4 Musc core, T4 Assault Radial, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degenerative Core.

 

Best time without using Assaut is -- 1 minute 50 seconds.

 

best time with Assault is-- 1 minute 29 seconds.

 

170% recharge. TF-ET-Gloom-BS-EP repeat.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[DSorrow]

18 hours ago, Moonlighter said:

Anyway given that procs aren't affected by global damage the delta between Bio straight up and Bio without procs should be smaller than for other sets without as much global damage?

Not really sure what you're asking here, but given that procs add "constant" damage in the sense that they aren't affected by +DMG, a proc setup that would give a 100 DPS to a /SR should give 100 DPS to /Bio also. However, Bio also comes with -Res which does affect procs, so you actually get slightly more.

 

If you're wondering about the top of the top end builds which are usually /Bio, what you're probably seeing here is just the "physical" limitation of the test we've chosen. Because the top end builds down pylons so quickly, small swings in proc outcomes introduce a huge source of volatility to the best times. The relationship between pylon times and DPS isn't linear, which means that, for example, at the 90 seconds mark, +-5 seconds = +-25 DPS. At 60 seconds, the same +-5 seconds is +-50 DPS whereas at 150 seconds the difference is only +-10. 

 

Given that it's basically impossible for other sets to get close to the average high-end performance of /Bio, procs might seem to introduce higher than expected difference between "average" and "top end". Additionally, it's important to note that pylons (like everything else) regenerate their HP in ticks. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we even know when the regen ticks start. Is it when the pylon enters the combat? Maybe when the zone is loaded? Or perhaps something else completely, but basically this also introduces a source of volatility that's especially important to note for very low pylon times: there could be a significant difference in measured DPS between a run that started right after a regen tick (best case) or one that gets the first regen tick right after dealing a regen tick's worth of damage (worst case). None of these invalidate any results, but IMO they're artifacts of the test/measurement that we should be mindful of.

 

Back in the days when 3 minutes was an exceptional time, this wasn't as much of a problem as procs and other such effects had a longer time to average out which mitigated the volatility.

 

So, basically you're seeing a compound effect of the test slightly breaking and procs actually giving /Bio a slight bit better damage increase (-Res) than other sets.

[Gobbledigook]

New EM/Bio Scrapper  T4 Musc core, T4 Assault Radial, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degenerative Core.

 

Best time without using Assault is -- 71 seconds

 

Best time with Assault is-- 55 seconds  /  36 seconds with BP lore pets out.

 

170% recharge. TF-ET-Moonbeam-EP-BS repeat.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Pzn]

I've been experimenting on beta with ninja secondary after it was buffed.  Currently shinobi is bugged so I can't use it during my testing.  But the buff to Golden Dragonfly made me interested in the set since it accepts both achilles and fury -res procs.  I'm averaging 1:25 pylon times without hybrid and 1:15 with.  Typical attack chain is something like GD>TK Thrust>Psi Lance>Choking Powder with priority on GD and TK thrust because they have FF procs slotted.  Should be able to go a little bit lower once shinobi is working properly.  Using Muscualture, Ageless, Degen, Assault

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Psychic Blast
Secondary Power Set: Ninja Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mental Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Immobilizing Dart -- GrvAnc-Immob(A), GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(3), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(3), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(5), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(5)
Level 2: Telekinetic Blast -- Dmg-I(A), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(11), ExpStr-Dam%(11), GldJvl-Dam%(13), Apc-Dam%(13), FrcFdb-Rechg%(15)
Level 4: Choking Powder -- Apc-Dmg(A), GldNet-Dam%(15), NrnSht-Dam%(17), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(17), GldJvl-Dam%(19), UnbCns-Dam%(19)
Level 6: Psychic Focus -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21)
Level 10: Shinobi -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21)
Level 12: Psionic Lance -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(23), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(23), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(25), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), GldJvl-Dam%(27)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 16: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(29)
Level 18: Psionic Tornado -- Rgn-Dmg(A), ExpStr-Dam%(29), JvlVll-Dam%(31), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(31), PstBls-Dam%(31), FrcFdb-Rechg%(33)
Level 20: Kuji-In Toh -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(33), EndMod-I(33), EndMod-I(34)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), Ksm-ToHit+(34)
Level 24: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Boxing -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(37), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(48), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(48), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(48)
Level 28: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(37), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(39)
Level 32: Psychic Wail -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(40)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), DefBuff-I(42)
Level 38: Golden Dragonfly -- Arm-Dmg(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(42), Erd-%Dam(43), Arm-Dam%(43), ShlBrk-DefDeb(43), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45)
Level 41: Blinding Powder -- CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Conf(45), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(45), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(46), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(46), CrcPrs-Conf%(46)
Level 44: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(50)
Level 47: Vengeance -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-Pcptn(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Rchg(9), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(9)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(36), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(36)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Task Force Commander
------------


 

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Edited October 28, 2020 by josh1622

[Werner]

On 10/28/2020 at 6:34 AM, DSorrow said:

...it's important to note that pylons (like everything else) regenerate their HP in ticks... this also introduces a source of volatility that's especially important to note for very low pylon times...

We can largely remove this specific source of volatility. Hit the pylon a few times and wait. The moment it heals back to full, start.

[wackodraco]

Storm/Sonic/Dark Defender.

 

Rotation is roughly Screech, Howl, Scream, Shriek, but with Lightning Storm, Tornado, and Freezing Rain mixed in.

 

T4 Cardiac, T4 Spectral, T4 Ion (Didn't use), T4 Storm Elementals (Didn't use), T4 Clarion Core, T4 Assault Radial

 

No lores, no Inspirations, no temps.

 

274.35 seconds, so 268 DPS

Edited November 2, 2020 by wackodraco

[Tsuko]

On 10/28/2020 at 2:14 PM, Gobbledegook said:

New Bio/EM Tanker  T4 Musc core, T4 Assault Radial, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degenerative Core.

 

Best time without using Assaut is -- 1 minute 50 seconds.

 

best time with Assault is-- 1 minute 29 seconds.

 

170% recharge. TF-ET-Gloom-BS-EP repeat.

did you try with the build 2 ? barrage having now the - regen - special can be interesting

[Gobbledigook]

12 hours ago, Tsuko said:

did you try with the build 2 ? barrage having now the - regen - special can be interesting

No not yet. I was think of trying on a Stalker next. Between a Scrapper and Stalker I think the Scrapper may win due to higher base damage as crits don't bump dps the same but Stalkers get AS, so it will be close I think.

But both will be incredibly good. 

 

 

[Tsuko]

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

No not yet. I was think of trying on a Stalker next. Between a Scrapper and Stalker I think the Scrapper may win due to higher base damage as crits don't bump dps the same but Stalkers get AS, so it will be close I think.

But both will be incredibly good. 

 

 

Don't lose your time on barrage for stalker / scrapper : using the EF on TF is the way to go for pure dps.

 

But don't underestimate stalkers, on my testings EM stalkers have insane ST dps due to the synergy between both Combo systems of Energy Focus and Assassin's Strike.

[Twinkle]

Fortunata Widow, using the melee attacks, time of about 7m 40s.

 

T2 Musc, T1 Degenerative, no other incarnates, just a cheap (almost) perma hasten build with 1 proc in each attack. Rotation was Aim+Shatter Armor and then Followup-Lunge-Strike-Swipe, reapplying shatter armor haphazardly or after each aim usually meaning I did lose some uptime with it, though I did try to use it after Followup-Lunge so as to maximize the usage of the better attacks. Lost additional time to having to aid self like 4 or 5 times due to eating a hit and messing about with hasten/mind link AND I had to use a blue insp to stay afloat even with tough turned off.

 

I'm honestly not sure if I'm happy or sad about the performance lol it was the first pylon I've ever attacked. I feel pretty powerful in general play so I was actually fairly surprised it was as slow as it was. I'll definitely be interested to see how it goes with more incarnates. I'd also like to try Night Widow, I've heard Slash isn't actually that great of a DPS gain but it certainly FEELS like less not having it lol

 

Edit: I forgot to mention I had the supergroup base +recovery and +Recharge buffs as I basically always do the whole time I play any character.

 

Second Edit:

Did another run, this time with my Illusion/Traps Controller, 205% Global Recharge, Ice pool, level 49 so no incarnates yet, Time was  4m 13s. 

 

Ran a priority list for power usage, I kept the army up of course and then built acid mortars first, applied poison trap for -regen second, resummoned phantasm third, got decent uptime on him by keeping him flanking the pylon, and lastly filled with a damage rotation consisting of Ice Storm>Spectral Wounds>Ice Blast>Blind.

 

I got hit by the pylon and knocked two or three times but it was a pretty clean kill besides that. I'm honestly shocked the gap was that big compared with my Widow, especially since I'm not even 50, though I did expect this character to do fairly well considering AV slaying is like her life's calling.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Twinkle
Forgot details

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Twinkle said:

I'm honestly not sure if I'm happy or sad about the performance lol it was the first pylon I've ever attacked. I feel pretty powerful in general play so I was actually fairly surprised it was as slow as it was. I'll definitely be interested to see how it goes with more incarnates. I'd also like to try Night Widow, I've heard Slash isn't actually that great of a DPS gain but it certainly FEELS like less not having it lol

Don't feel sad. Your incarnates are missing and they shave large chunks of time. Keep on Tinpexing and leveling to get more incarnate crafting mats.

[Maxzero]

On 10/26/2020 at 5:27 AM, Moonlighter said:

Wow no accuracy, no recharge? No wonder you need a filler.

 

It makes me sad that proc mules are *that* effective.

 

Also I don't know that this build would work with no accuracy on +4 content with only Kismet, Tactics, and globals? Have you played it in other content?

 

Only true pylon tragics use +hit powers and +acc set bonuses so that they can max damage and proc slotting.

 

*Looks at his latest build*

 

Tragic indeed...

[Tsuko]

6 hours ago, Twinkle said:

I'm honestly not sure if I'm happy or sad about the performance lol it was the first pylon I've ever attacked. I feel pretty powerful in general play so I was actually fairly surprised it was as slow as it was.

CoX is created to make people FEEL as a super hero and is very very good at his job. Sometimes "too" good 🙂

 

[BrandX]

Wasn't even going for an optimal build...EM/Regen Scrapper  TF>ET>EP>BS>Moonbeam>EP>BS>Repeat that at somepoint I started going TF>ET>EP>BS>MB>EP>Repeat as I didn't think there was that much of a delay.  Then started replacing the second EP with BU when it recharged.

 

No Incarnates and I got 245.45 DPS at 5m26s

 

I do think I could eke out a little more damage on ET, as I realized, with it's no end cost, I could replace the DMG/End IO with DMG IO.

 

No idea how Barrage would effect it, as I was basically wasting any secondary EF I may have gotten from TF (slotted with Superior Critical Strikes)

 

 

[BrandX]

Did another run, this time with TF > ET > Barrage > BS > *slight delay after first* MB > Repeat

 

Got 5m25s  and I could only bump up the +RCH on MB with one more booster, I was lacking, so it likely wouldn't have made to much of a difference.

 

Again, no incarnates.

 

Edit:

 

Ran with Musculature Radial (what I'm more than likely to go with on live), Assault Hybrid (not clicked) and Degenerative Core and got 3:37 for 304.5

 

Personally, the 245 was likely enough for me to live with, just because that means I should be soloing all/most AVs with just that, which is what gets me feeling super 🙂  So the rest is just gravy for harder team content.

 

Also, I did mistime one Build Up, so it could've been a little better.

Edited November 5, 2020 by BrandX

[Hew]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:11 AM, Twinkle said:

 

 

I'm honestly not sure if I'm happy or sad about the performance lol it was the first pylon I've ever attacked. I feel pretty powerful in general play so I was actually fairly surprised it was as slow as it was..

Feeling of power can be had by empowerment of teammates. If you enable your teammates to steamroll at an accelerated pace, then yes, you ARE powerful. Single target damage against something that doesnt move is kind of a weird measure of test, since in game play, nothing stands still and things croak quickly. All the dps in the world isnt going to help against something like Director 11, who will totally ignore taunts periodically and run around dropping bombs and ruining your melee fun. 

 

But your buffs? Those are eternal. They don't benefit just one brand of play, target, or problem. 

[Twinkle]

Did two more pylons, now with T3 Musculature(Partial Core Revamp), T3 Degenerative (Partial Core Conversion) and Hybrid T1 (Assault Genome). I've respecced since the last time too though the basics are the same: still Melee Fortunata Widow, still FU-Lunge-Jab-Swipe, using Aim when its up and Shatter Armor at very crudely estimated 20 second intervals, but my endurance is totally solid now. I also feel like I'm getting hit less as neither of these tests required me to heal myself or use a shame-green insp or anything, but i was softcapped before too so I have no idea why that's the case.  Oh I nearly forgot but my Spider's Bite proc is Superior now, if that makes much difference.

 

First result: 4:33, didn't click the hybrid

Second Result: 4:39, did click hybrid(twice technically, got it goin just before the end)

 

Tier 1 Hybrids nothing to get too excited about huh?

 

Still no idea if Shatter Armor is really worth it or not but it feels worth it when I'm soloing to soften up bosses. It's really nice vs robots. There's some kind of weird interaction with Follow Up and redraw on the mace too cause if I mash the key real hard for a mace hit during Follow Up sometimes I'll skip the mace draw. Same for skipping claw redraw after the mace attack, if I use followup after it. No idea why and I can't seem to make it consistent but it makes the whole thing feel way better when it works. I have aim with Gaussians and no recharge so I assume its worth bopping for damage but it feels really slow and bad. I think it's probably technically worth using Wail for ST as well? I didn't though.

 

Overall pretty amazed at how much better it went with no real change besides the incarnates. Next step will be to waste all of my money on making a ranged Fortunata spec/respec Night Widow cause iI miss Slash and then quit cause I don't have enough AOE without Psychic Wail make a better build with ATOs/Purples. The only damage gain I'd get from a different build would be any purple procs I manage to fit in though cause my recharge is pretty much maxed out.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Twinkle

[Sir Myshkin]

On 11/9/2020 at 4:26 AM, Twinkle said:

Tier 1 Hybrids nothing to get too excited about huh?

Honestly most of the T1 Incarnate slots aren't anything super impressive, and really only until you hit T3 that you'll start feeling/seeing the difference they can make. In my opinion, when it comes to the Hybrid Assault specifically, that one isn't really a "Wow" moment until you get to the T4 (either side of the tree) because of how much stronger the value add becomes. I've seen even just T3 to T4 shave a quarter to half a minute off a Pylon time.

[BrandX]

So, is it the -Resist, -HP, or the -Regen Interface that does the best?  Is the -Regen even in the running?

[nihilii]

The -Regen is pretty much useless. Numbers would make sense if AVs didn't have 85% resist to -regen, but they do, so -RES and -HP are exponentially better.

[Olivia Crowley]

I felt utterly inspired by the /Nin changes for blasters, both in terms of theme AND potential power, so I whipped up a Fire/Nin blaster and ran over to beta and did a handful of tests.

Chain is not seamless. Started with GD>Snipe>Blaze>Sting, ended up in more of a priority system from left to right. Could probably be refined.
First 4 attempts used Smoke Flash. Determined it was a waste of animation time. I'm not sure if it'd even be worth using on a team, because AVs will resist most of the -10.5% res and anything else will die instantly anyway.
Started off not using Nuke or Spiderlings. My logic was 'nuke cd is long, focus on my chain' and 'spiderlings will die anyway, who cares?' but determined both were worth using.

Incarnates actively used: Musc Core Paragon, Degen Core Flawless, Assault Radial Embodiment. Destiny is Clarion, wasn't clicked. Planned on Clarion if I played in real content, so didn't bring Ageless.

Kinetic Dampener was used to achieve 45% S/L. I build for these pretty regularly. Whether you consider that legit within the purview of a pylon kill is up to you.
While it doesn't directly add damage, it does let me build for more recharge by not needing to go to 45% with enhancements.

Start of my timing is when I click anything that affects the Pylon, such as Smoke Flash or directly attacking it with GD, etc.

 

First attempt was 84 sec. I screwed it up completely, got nervous, ran out of end. Took a deep breath and killed some toggles that weren't doing anything for me.

 

Three attempts at 79 sec, then 75, then 73. At this point I stopped using Smoke Flash, figuring extra Stings would prevail.

Three more attempts: 71, 69, 70. After these attempts I decided to start including spiderlings & nuke instead of arbitrarily deciding not to.

Following setup used on these attempts: SS turned on. Kuji-In Toh popped, then Hasten, then Spiderlings dropped. Turn on Assault Rad. Run in while activating Aim, disable SS. GD>Nuke>Snipe>Blaze to start, then begin cycling on priority from left to right as stated above. Thanks to FFB procs, nuke is used twice. 

Four more attempts: 57, 61, 63, 60. Aside from that painful feeling when I heard a miss, I couldn't be happier!

 

edit: Oh, including a build would be good. This may or may not open because I have the modified DB from the mids reborn thread, but that DB doesn't affect blasters, soo... Keep in mind numbers on /nin are not indicative of in-game.

 

For REAL WORLD usage I would not run this exactly as-is, I would swap out either tactics or assault for Burnout. Note that GD and Sting are not 95% vs +3s, they're around 90%. If that frustrates you, take tactics. Otherwise take assault. Spiderlings are also absolutely to-taste, but I enjoy them and I appreciate the set bonus they carry. If you don't want to deal with them, consider Choking Powder slotted with Basi Gaze, or Blinding Powder w/ a confuse purple set, you can prob find a slot somewhere.

 

I also mentioned maybe throwing out Smoke Flash, so that could be an option to keep both assault+tactics and return Burnout.

 

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Edited November 28, 2020 by Tsurupettan
Build, additional commentary

[nihilii]

4 hours ago, Tsurupettan said:

I felt utterly inspired by the /Nin changes for blasters, both in terms of theme AND potential power, so I whipped up a Fire/Nin blaster and ran over to beta and did a handful of tests.

My man.  Still in the process of PLing/IOing mine on Live. Those numbers are inspiring.

 

I'm planning to go Blaze Sting GD Blaze Sting BB for a chain, with a build fairly similar to yours (except fire epic and Ageless, because I can't stand having low S/L res and don't mind living on amplifiers). Blaze and Sting have the best DPA so it seems good to use them as much as possible, although perhaps that means less -RES uptime from GD compared to a priority system, and less DPS in the end? Time will tell.

[StrikerFox]

Tried a EM/SR Stalker on Beta. Using [BU]-AS-TF-[BU]-ET-BS-EP-repeat attack chain. Time of 103 secs, for 500 dps.

 

T4 Musculature Core Alpha
T4 Degenerative Core Interface
T4 Assault Hybrid (Not toggled)

 

It worked out well. Stalker's Guile crit TF every other cycle, ET's cast time was always 1s thanks to two stacks of EF. I think that's really good for a first try and can probably still improve by a lot. Getting more recharge and eliminating EP from the chain would knock off a bunch of time. 

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

It worked out well. Stalker's Guile crit TF every other cycle, ET's cast time was always 1s thanks to two stacks of EF.

Purely theorycrafting here: could it make more sense to run TF -> AS -> ET -> BS (-> EP)?

 

You shouldn't need 2 stacks of EF anyway, and you get 1 stack of EF even if TF misses. ET would heal you >50% of the time, and has slightly higher crit damage than TF.