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Shenanigunner

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Shenanigunner last won the day on March 9

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  1. I don't read it that unbindall (aka keybind_reset) has changed in any significant way. It's always been there as the way to clear all modified binds. My takeaway is that there's always been something of a code collision when updating or overwriting the "default" binds, and the changes were intended to block that semi-problem (nonproblem for users, incompletely defined problem for code/Devs), but that otherwise, nothing was really changed in the overall keybind feature. This seems to be another case, among many with the bind changes all through P7, where longstanding options and capabilities that were changed by the Devs are perceived as something-completely-new-and-different. (The whole bit with mouse view reset, for example, has been one option-set away since Live, if not original launch, but the user discussion is as if it's a gift.curse from the Ghods.)
  2. I am delighted to see the addition of the /showbindall and /showbindallfile commands with today's patch, restoring the ability to dump all current keybinds regardless of their origin. This addresses almost all of my concerns with the P7 change. Thanks to the Devs for recognizing the need for this functionality and restoring it. The next step, I think, is to initiate a continuing discussion of what needs to be done to improve and stabiliize the whole 'key bind' subsystem — make it easier to get started with for novices and those afraid of breaking the game, which would probably include expanding and improving the Profile feature; keep it fully accessible to the advanced UI tweaker crowd *cough* for all the advantages that can be exploited with it, and not least, deal with the internal code/inefficiencies/bugs that seem to have been behind the P7 changes in the first place. I think it's an area of the game/UI that's long overdue for some TLC, and if it makes the interface more flexible and stable from the inside, so much the better.
  3. Well, thanks. but I understand I'm the reason spandex is illegal in my state. 😛
  4. IMO, buffs should be on the numpad so they can be delivered as an integral part of paying attention to the game/players/interaction, and not by watching/clicking a line of icons.
  5. So I've seen this request before but never a solution. Someone in-game asked and I worked it out while logged in. Thought the basics were worth posting even though there's some refinement to be had. If you want to change color while moving (and change back when you stop), and you have control of your SG settings, here's how. You are limited to whatever colors you assign your SG and whatever of those you select for SG mode color change, so set that up first, for the colors/scheme you want to display while moving. Then dump these two files in your [GAME]/settings/live folder: [sg-off.txt] CTRL+W "+forward$$sgmodeset 1$$bindloadfilesilent sg-on.txt" CTRL+A "+left$$sgmodeset 1$$bindloadfilesilent sg-on.txt" CTRL+S "+backward$$sgmodeset 1$$bindloadfilesilent sg-on.txt" CTRL+D "+right$$sgmodeset 1$$bindloadfilesilent sg-on.txt" [sg-on.txt] CTRL+W "+forward$$sgmodeset 0$$bindloadfilesilent sg-off.txt" CTRL+A "+left$$sgmodeset 0$$bindloadfilesilent sg-off.txt" CTRL+S "+backward$$sgmodeset 0$$bindloadfilesilent sg-off.txt" CTRL+D "+right$$sgmodeset 0$$bindloadfilesilent sg-off.txt" Then, in-game, /bindloadfile one or the other. Movement with the Ctrl key pressed will now shift you to SG color (and chest detail) while moving, back to regular when you stop. I put it on the CTRL keys because I use a walking bind on W, and to integrate the two will take some time and a lotta bindfiles. So this setup is more for fun or alternate-movement color change. Wasn't sure it would work at all, what with cooldowns and other hurdles. But it works perfectly.
  6. I think the topic of P7 changes to keybinds and bind management deserves a fresh take, perhaps with more of a focus on facts. I thought the technical and gameplay issues were clear but the official viewpoint seems to differ. Some users have made good points and/or asked good questions... so let's take this from the top. Ringing in @BlackSpectre and @Number Six as interested parties. Legacy Keybinds Features (through 27P6) From the original launch of the game through Issue 27 Page 6, keybinds were a transparent, accessible part of the game UI. Basic users could make changes using the menus; slightly more savvy players could write and implement a few helper binds for their alts and play style; some lunatic faction could rip up the whole keyboard assignment and remap it in extreme ways, adding complex multifunction binds like nothing found in the original set. What enabled this more than anything else was that binds were a transparent configuration element, easily accessible by saving the bind strings to a local text file. Anyone could dump out all of the 'raw code' that connected each key to a game function. (This parallels the windows and options settings, which can be dumped out in raw form to their own files, for the curious to look at and the savvy to tweak in one way or another, bypassing the endless menus or slightly fussy command-driven changes. While it's likely very few users have edited the windows file and reloaded it, some larger number have both learned the scope of the games "options" from this file and used the save/load process to tweak them wholesale, or in ways not supported by menu options.) Most importantly, the bind-save functions saved ALL binds. Combat control, configuration, chat, UI changes, even emotes. Even ones not listed in the menu. Furthermore, it listed then in valuable raw-code form, not as interpreted by menu item names and limited options with names chosen by one Dev or another over 19 years. It also saved out any custom binds entered by the user for that alt. An edited file could be uploaded in one command, either to update an alt or to transfer those binds to second alt—or a second player. This simple, transparent look of download-modify-upload is at the heart of investigating, learning, modifying and expanding the game's keyboard UI system. This is no small thing given that not all games support this much direct configuration and that once players learn how much they can tweak, there's no end to finding the right "keyboard build" for each player, AT and alt. Just to make it clear, keybinds are not some system tacked on to the game, a side feature to allow key customization. They're not something optional or irrelevant. The game has only a few truly hard-coded keys. Absolutely every other button you push, at any time, for any reason, is a keybind—a defined link in this file and configuration map that says [DO THIS] when [KEY x] is pressed. The whole user input system is keybinds. And all but a very few can be remapped or changed or extended in any way that makes sense to the individual player. In other words... there are NO truly standard or dedicated game keys, as some players believe. While many of the "default" binds may never be changed by even the most mad bind maven *cough*, knowing what they are and being able to examine how all those keys are used (again, including some that are not accessible through the menu system and not fully documented in other ways) is an essential part of understanding how it works so that sensible mods can be developed. The "default" binds also go considerably past the dozen or so dedicated to realtime gameplay (movement, combat, interaction) and into dozens that manage windows, the UI, info lookup and such... and many of those are prime candidates for remapping to more sensible, organized, modernized, "better" keys. So for 19 years, players with any degree of curiosity or wish to customize had unlimited access, not to an official description or list or menu of keybinds... but to ALL of them at that raw code level. And that level of access and understanding has enabled some amazing mods, improvements and UI enhancements. Keybind Changes with Page 7 With the release of Issue 27 Page 7, a major change was made to the keybind system. The bind-save commands were changed so that no "default" binds were exported to the save file. Instead of some 100 bind definitions, of use for understanding each command and the feature overall, and as guides for potential change, only custom, user-uploaded binds are saved. Everything else disappears into one line, "key_profile name." There is no longer any way to extract the base, default, predefined keybinds from the game. The only access options to default binds are— to use the menus, which are not nearly as useful in any way and are subject to layers of "interpretation" that is often vague or even misleading. It can be hard to match a key/command to a menu description. to call up the bind for any one key using /showbind, which— produces only a system chat line that must be copied out for study and editing, and requires that the user know the exact name of the key involved, which — as anyone who's worked with binds knows — is not intuitive for more than half the keys on the keyboard. It's like magick: you have to know the "true name" of the key before you can even ask it what it does. This, in my opinion, based on nineteen years of mucking around with and documenting this feature of the game, is crippling to both keybind newcomers and the middle range of bind hackers. It takes something that was instantly accessible in "whole form" and turns it into a process of laborious steps and fumbling research just to change, say, the Enter key on the numpad. (I suppose already-advanced bind hackers have the default list on file... but of course they can't easily update it. Ditto for the notion that the list might be downloadable from somewhere; the game does not have a good history of docs and support being anywhere near up to date.) I also see this change as having the potential to cause unnecessary havoc for the unwary. Someone circling back to the game after all the recent changes and news might start by saving down the binds... and overwrite their only copy of the file, which now is missing all of the static entries. They're at square one except for whatever custom binds were preserved. That there is no slightest notice or warning of this change, and thus this danger, makes it worse. This IS a change, and not a small one to be waved off. It throws up a huge, permanent hurdle to keybind customization, and even with the workarounds, will mask release-to-release development changes that would be easily discoverable with the former "dump 'em all" access. If Devs decide that bind changes "aren't a change" and don't note them in the patch notes, or bury them in a vague line about fixes, it will be very difficult to find such changes, much less know they occurred. And no, the menu is not a substitute; while things like "A" == "left" are fairly simple, that doesn't really note that the actual string is A +left... that the actual key names are the first puzzle that has to be solved, the actual slash command/s assigned are another, the format of those commands (and any arguments) yet a third. Making any but a few piecemeal changes has been made so difficult that even interested users will probably no longer bother, and that's a wholly unnecessary loss of a precious and useful game asset. The argument thrown back on this was that "nothing was changed, and nothing was 'broken.'" Well, if you tear up a library's card catalog, you could argue that nothing has changed because all the books are still on the shelves... but good luck finding them without hours of searching for each one. I maintain that removing this simple feature, that of being able to list out ALL binds, is a major change, bordering on a breakage of user ability to customize their UI, and it should be reverted. Profiles What explanation has been given for this change is that the bind system code was incomplete, or not well implemented, or didn't "work as originally intended" or some such. All I can do is note that it's worked fine for 19 years, and if this is yet another area where mangled code needs to be cleaned up, it could—and should—be done in a way that doesn't remove useful player features. There is a list of bugs related to both keybinds and the command parser; maybe a sub project to fix those bugs, add some enhancements, make the code all pretty and streamlined AND not remove longstanding features is in order, instead of this half-fix/half-break "non change." The other driving factor seems to have something to do with making "Profiles" work right, or better, or "as originally intended." (Did you know the game even had key profiles? I didn't... and I'm on the short list of player/hackers who really should!) Well, I looked into the profiles, and here's what I think: nice idea, not of much use, and if they're in any way "fixed" now they must have been completely useless through 27/P6. The idea is good, but the implementation is nearly pointless. There are four Profiles to select from, and the one for Joystick use (!) aside, they are basically Ivory, Off-White and Beige... a few command and movement keys shifted around in each. (Even the Joystick one simply remaps the basic keys to the stick and little else.) So... where is the Left-Handed profile? Any of a few for players needing special Accessibility (like the ones I've helped find solutions over the years)? Where's the Mastermind profile? Where's a really comprehensive, new-to-bare-metal, post-2005 update like my GABS system (or any equivalent by anyone)? Where's anything but three flavors of vanilla? But no, this internal fix, and external limitation, were implemented at in part to make four very tepid options of "Profile" work... right, better, at all, something, which I don't think is anywhere near a worthwhile tradeoff. I suggest that the profile setup, as it is, is such weak sauce that it should only be given support as part of the wholesale update of this part of the game. Revamp the whole key-input-bind system, and make Profiles something easily extensible — I'd love to write some of those alternatives, as I've been doing at the "custom keybind" level, and make them instantly accessible to the many players who are leery of "hacking the game with binds" There's useful change in that direction... but it shouldn't come at the cost of blunting the rest of the feature. Menus & Terminology And while we're here, one of the other barrier/hurdles to even simple user understanding of the keys and the profiles is that options and labels like "Modern" and "Classic" and "Like Issue 1" are meaningless babble. They mean very little to veteran players and nothing to newcomers. The one that comes to mind is the P7 change to set mouse-look to auto-centering; the answer, given every five minutes in Help for days (and even now) is "Go set 'Mouse [something something behavior]' to 'Classic.'" Uh... yeah, that's intuitive. Even looking past the fact that the Dev team could use a tech writer or two to review all the UI content and labels so that they make some relevant sense to the function they manage, menus are inherently simplified. It wouldn't do much good to the the other half of the user base to label options with their internal, technobabble names and the (often bizarre and cryptic) setting keywords. But—there's a lot of sensibility and organization cleanup that could be done to make the menus and UI elements more sensible to "nontechnical" players, and re-enabling the advanced, technical approach for the other half. Rubbery-bubbery menus AND difficult access to direct configuration are, IMVVHO, breakage of what could be, and nearly always has been, an outstanding aspect of the game. Make both work, instead. Solutions In the interests of serving the spectrum of needs from newcomer/non-tech/wouldn't change a single default setting players to those of us who have probably remapped everything but the startup screen (oh... wait... /uiskin 2 🙂 ), and based on almost twenty years of researching, documenting, improving and explaining the game's deep UI configuration features (which, by the way, falls within my professional career scope), I'd like to suggest that— the bind save feature be reverted to a mode that saves out ALL keybinds, "default" and otherwise, without any selectivity or filtering or Dev decision that "players don't really need to know that" thinking. (Side comment: much of what's been said back about "default binds" seems to carry the idea they are somehow irrelevant—that users don't need need to know them, won't change them and only constitute the dozen or so "action" keys. That's the kind of, well, kindly nannyism I'd like the process to bypass. if the shortest path to this fix is a new command ("save_all_binds"), fine. It seems like that would be easy to implement without (if you insist) reverting any of the P7 changes or derailing whatever future plans there might be for this subsystem. To put it clearly: just regaining the ability to do a full, unscreened bind dump would correct much of what I'm objecting to, here. the bind system be given some priority for a wholesale rewrite that addresses all these issues—makes binds completely transparent and accessible again, makes the menus "sensible" and appropriate for new/more general users, implements Profiles in a useful and extensible way, fixes some of the longstanding bugs (like pet emotes in binds), and fixes the vaguely-stated internal duplication/overwrite problem that (while being nonfatal for two decades) seems to have been at the heart of all this... change. In other words, fix the whole critical and useful subsystem, accommodating the full range of players and customizers, while extending some presently useless elements into usefulness, and making the code cleaner, more efficient for all the reasons that's good. I don't think I'm "overrreacting" with this request.
  7. It has little to do with "what I don't like" except in the sense that I don't like changes that bring pointless opacity, and potential loss of user data without any warning or ability to recover the losses. So, no news here, I disagree on several important points, based on some nineteen years of focusing on this particular technical area of the game and trying to give users as much useful information and support for UI customization as I can. There have been many changes in that time, mostly for the good and at worst meaning a formerly working approach needed to be modified. This case is different. However, between the rigid arguments you maintain and my overall respect for the Dev team, I can't see any meaningful way to effect change, but I will continue to warn users, in appropriate discussions, that there are key changes to the bindfile system that have brought some pitfalls they really, really want to avoid. Sorry if that's annoying to either you individually or the team.
  8. Okay. I just have a bug to make sure both newcomers and old binderoos know that the system has fundamentally changed and not to rely on old habits or practices. What was a safe, useful closed loop now... has a drainpipe attached to one side down which valuables can be lost. By "hand edit" I assume you mean in chat strings? Muchly. If you have your bindfiles organized and a decent editor at hand, it's often faster to go out, open the file, edit and verify, then go back and load it. It's nice to be able to enter the odd bind directly — I do it all the time for testing while I'm playing — but the notion of typing in bind strings on each alt gives me a fatigue attack.
  9. /bindsave should essentially never be used any more. It has far less purpose and functionality and could lose binds you don't have adequately archived. Work from an edited custom bind file and upload it as needed, only. If you must "extract" custom binds from an alt, be sure to save it to a unique filename, as saved files now do not include the detaults and there may be other anomalies caused by the changes to the bind system. That is, treat the file save as a potentially dangerous operation in which you could overwrite an existing bindfile with incomplete or damaged information. For myself, I can't see using it ever again; it won't bring me any useful information. I'd rather just write/edit/upload than try to complete the cycle by ever DLing/saving existing binds.
  10. Okay, found it; I'd overlooked it because it seemed to be irrelevant: First one is what everyone is cheering about, and I agree... except that my UI has never worked in any other way, and resetting a junk alt to default/Classic mode still does exactly the same, turns the alt to move in camera-view mode. All binds also seem to be the same. I can only conclude that the change in the first line is an actual, internal-command change that somehow I already had enabled for... years.
  11. Huh. I've never encountered that behavior and in (tediously) comparing the bind profiles, can't figure out what would have controlled/caused it. the WASD assignments are the same as always in Classic and (other than using a walking bind) I've never changed the four binds from vanilla/default. That is, in something like 15 years of play, I can't recall any behavior but camera==forward, and with an extensive knowledge of options and keybinds, I can't put a finger (W or any other) on the where/why of this difference.
  12. I'm honestly having a little trouble with this concept (from multiple discussions). Maybe I've run customized binds so long I am out of touch with what more generic-setup players use, but I don't think I've ever had an alt move obliquely to the camera. If I pivot the camera, any movement key swings the alt to move in a manner corresponding to camera==forward. Can someone walk (heh) me through how camera+alt view did not act in this way prior to the miracle that is P7? The only bind or default change I am aware of is that mousechord (both keys at once) was switched from the wonky original command mouse_forward to a combination +forward and cam_turn that overcame the tendency of THAT run command to do weird things. (That and the default to auto-center after mouse lookaround, which seems to be what most of this thread is about.) If there's a description in the patch notes, a quote or pointer is good. I've been through them for my purposes and while most changes are good, a lot of detail is buried in serial body text across multiple installments.
  13. I have an SJ/WP scrapper and it's a great set to play. Very... organic. You're just one tough BA no one wants to run into in an alley.
  14. There were some fundamental changes to how binds are managed, and a few trivial changes to default binds, but nothing should have removed any custom binds. It's possible; despite assurances that the internal changes to the bind feature were minor, there are cascading issues with things such as not being able to export default binds to a bindfile. It's possible your binds got 'caught in the gears' of those changes. Always keep your binds in a loadable file, so that they can be restored if necessary, shared among alts and edited easily. However, save binds from the game with extreme caution, as the changes mean your existing bindfiles could be overwritten with less-useful variations, with no way to recover the originals unless you have them archived.
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