DreadShinobi

Does AAO actually taunt for stalkers? My assumption was that it did I outside of hide.

A brute does have to work hard/quickly to maintain high fury, whereas a tank has to do absolutely nothing to maintain it's higher base modifiers, base survivability, and all the other buffs that it is receiving. The table above demonstrably shows that the 0.9 damage-survivability ratio of tanker v brute that captain powerhouse is pushing for is bogus and a midrange buffed damage scenario in team play is more practical than a max damage cap scenario. In a team scenario with me actively taking point, I'd say it isn't hard to achieve over 70% fury, but that is something that has to be worked for, and the first portion of combat where a brute has to start from zero fury and build up to that is not non-existant. Whereas a tanker can come in a unload their full damage from their first strike. Being able to jump in a drop your foot stomp or whatever aoes you might have is a factor being devalued on the tanker side where they can deal 27% more damage before fury would build. I've also just about got through running all the praetorian arcs solo on my brute and certainly that 0-50% fury marker has been an important factor in my damage output. The size of my aoes has also been something I've been paying more attention to, and having to wait for enemies to group up or simply not hitting foes in my radius that I would have otherwise hit if I were a tanker post-patch is something that can be noticeable. That's something you can have more control over in a solo scenario, but something that takes time to reposition enemies, and in a team scenario it can sometimes not be possible to group up enemies into your radius, where a tanker's effective damage can go higher than numbers would suggest. Cluttering up a feedback thread with your constant 'witty banter' has been enough. That thread has nothing to do with this one. Your ulterior motives are becoming more clear whether that is just post count padding or keeping attention off of amending any of the original proposed changes, I can't say I am the only one that finds it tiring to sift through the mass of posts to find the relevant ones.

That's an understatement

What's the deal with the psi/ea stalkers? Is that the pvp thing of the month?

I have a fiery melee / shield stalker, lvl 50, but currently just running on SOs gathering a significant amount of dust. Just wondering if I made a mistake with fiery melee and should reroll? I like that the has some decent aoe, and a less resisted damage type than lethal, but from what I understand the set isn't all that great for stalkers as the fire dots don't crit? What are the good alternatives to a broadsword stalker that uses shield def? I've never really care for the elec/shield hype. I also already have a psi/shield scrapper that I love but wouldn't want to repeat the combo. I understand broadsword is strong but would like to see how it's competitive with other stalker primaries with shield def.

This is what I have been fighting in the tanker feedback thread among many other aspects where increasing the damage cap on the most durable AT in the game (and currently refusing to lower brute damage cap) is harmful to other ATs that are nearly immunue to gaining higher performance from team members. My widow is stuck in the same place: 100% base damage 130% from slotting+musculature alpha 30% double assault 40% damage set bonuses 30-90% from follow up 80% gaussian =over damage cap While tankers have immensely higher health, healing, regen, resistances, aggro control, wider aoes, 20% higher endurance, and a damage cap that can rival blaster damage now too. But having a tanker be able to benefit from more than 2 fulcrum shifts or eat a tray of red insps is more important than this or balance with other archetypes.

I am looking for some feedback and fine tuning on my plant/rad build. The build currently has 126.3% global recharge, enough for permadom without hasten (meaning I can go afk and still have permadom), and 45% S/L def. Ideally any changes to the build will not sacrifice these two points, which is why I have found myself stuck. There are several procs I would like to add to the build, but don't see where I can pull slots from to include them and don't know if they're all worth pushing to include. These are Kismet Accuracy and Superior Dominating Grasp: Chance for fiery orb. Also not sure if I am going to kill myself for trying to run maneuevers and tactics without endredux slotting. Analyze weakness proc in Devastating blow is to set up max damage Proton Volleys. Gaussian proc is in tactics and not fusion because it has a chance to proc for each target it affects, so I am hoping that carrion creeper pets will affect this, some confirmation would be helpful. All IOs will be +5 boosted. Any other comments appreciated. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.4 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Dominator Primary Power Set: Plant Control Secondary Power Set: Radioactive Assault Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Strangler -- SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(A), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(3), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(5), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(5), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(7) Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apc-Dam%(48) Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(7), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(9), PstBls-Dam%(13) Level 4: Contaminated Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(27) Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Conf%(11), CrcPrs-Conf(15), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(15), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(17), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(17) Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(11) Level 12: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A) Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 16: Fusion -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 18: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19) Level 20: Radiation Siphon -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(37) Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(23), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(23), RedFrt-EndRdx(25), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(25), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27) Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(34), Rct-Def(50) Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- TraoftheH-Dam%(A), PstBls-Dam%(40), JvlVll-Dam%(40), ImpSwf-Dam%(43), ExpStr-Dam%(46), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(46) Level 28: Atom Smasher -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Arm-Acc/Rchg(29), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Arm-Dam%(31) Level 30: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A) Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33) Level 35: Proton Volley -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), StnoftheM-Dam%(36), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(36), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(37) Level 38: Devastating Blow -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dam%(40), AnlWkn-%ToHit(46) Level 41: Sleet -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), UndDfn-Rchg(42), UndDfn-Rchg/EndRdx(42), Ann-ResDeb%(42) Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(45), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(45), RedFrt-EndRdx(48), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48) Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 49: Hibernate -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Domination Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(50), Pnc-Heal/+End(50) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A) Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon Level 0: Marshal Level 0: Invader Level 0: High Pain Threshold Level 0: Born In Battle ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1523;705;1410;HEX;| |78DA65934B6F125114C7EF302042A194D296B6F4495BA1BC5137BE624CABD5B698A| |A891AA3E20426ED2408044663977E035F3BF7266EDCA8B1BE162E8CCB1AEBCE9526| |DA56ED43FD007898FF29903081FCEEFCCF3DE79EC7DCD4AD49C793A9DB4785E49AC| |829E5727AB2705DCB2B7AA1644929F35A4616F458E93F5833A4270A79BD54C8C5E6| |724A5EDF791BABDB8F95CBCA8D9C1E3BAB64B58292D1B59BEA8E26EC7305F23C575| 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Bumping an excellent post that got buried. Hoping @Captain Powerhouse will comment.

Thing is people didn't care for AT balance outside of tanker vs brute. (or really anything else I had to offer, and a large portion of this thread gets eaten up by 1 liners by myrmidon which have nothing to do with actual *focused feedback*, which is why I've stopped caring to reply because this thread is so heavily derailed). Captain Powerhouse said specifically he will not nerf brutes' damage cap when they are an outlier. Approxamately 400% of a brute's 775% damage cap is set aside for red insps and team buffs, and this enormous damage cap often detracts from the fact that brutes have much lower base damage. (I currently main a brute and I would support lowering a brute's damage cap). So Tankers are being brought up to that level, the original proposed changes were to give tankers a 600% damage cap which would again have been about 300% dedicated to team buffing and red insps, which has been brought down to ~250% with the recent proposed changes of a 550% damage cap, which is still a very wide margin compared to what other ATs can gain that do not have the durability of a tanker either. Meanwhile Captain Powerhouse has said that red insps et all aren't factored into balance decisions but setting the damage cap as high as it was set clearly makes an otherwise assumption plausible. It also didn't seem to catch that any change to damage caps should be done independently of internal class balance changes such as what is contained in the rest of this patch for tankers. This patch sets a high level of precedent that a certain margin should be present for characters to operate at a standard level and how effective they should be when fully buffed, currently there are several ATs that gain very little from self-damage buffing or team damage buffing (outside of resistance debuffs), Epic ATs being a prime example. My suggestion has been and still is that any damage cap change should be done independently of other changes within an archetype, because they affect things that are not unique to the archetype but what all ATs have access to: red insps, fulcrum shift, assault, etc. Giving the most durable archetype in the game access to highly competitive baseline damage, which already has a strong utility role in aggro control, alongside significant utility buffs in stronger leadership skills, wider aoes, higher endurance than every other archetype, and then on top of that giving them such a large gap between what they can do at their baseline performance to what they can do with a stack of reds or fulcrum shift is inappropriate for one patch. The set of changes that have been proposed for tankers is great and I support everything else being done here. I also don't disagree that a damage cap increase for tankers is warranted and needed, this is just a terrible way to push a bunch of changes through that don't look at the bigger picture. Changes to damage caps just need to be done outside of a tanker specific thread and have all ATs discussed collectively while addressing the damage cap specifically.

Did you forget about all the other changes tankers are getting to make up for bruising including the base damage scalar increase and 150% damage cap increase? Those changes to buff and debuff modifiers weren't meant to replace bruising, take them for what they are.

Brutes will not hit the cap any easier than a tanker would, they still need 400% of damage buffing (16 small reds or two full fulcrum shifts) to hit their damage cap after fury and enhancements are factored in. Tankers will be doing more damage than brutes at the start of a fight, and actually gain more than brutes from the red insps they use and damage buffing from team members.

Considering them side by side, if you're using those inspiration slots for purples/oranges then the tanker will be dealing more damage than the brute, with more flexibility to bring red insps where a brute would need to bring oranges, purples, or even possibly blue insps with wider aoes and better endurance management. The damage cap is being set so high with team buffs and inspirations in mind so it should be a factor.

Should those two things really be considered in a vacuum when tankers will have significantly higher upfront damage, higher impact from each red inspiration used, and higher base survivability allowing for more build flexibility and team flexibility relying less on team members to make up that gap, and 20% more endurance? When you have the survivability of a tanker or brute you have the flexibility to start every mission or tf with a stack of 20 red inspirations. Will other archetypes that are suffering from the same damage cap as tankers be addressed including kheldians, arachnos ATs, dominators, and defenders? Night Widow damage cap for example has a 400% damage cap: My night widow looks at this: 100% base 100% enhanced value 40% set bonuses 30-90% follow up Gaussian proc Can't use red inspirations

This would be what I am getting at. Please also read my other post and the one on page 31. What was slapped on to this set of changes was the damage cap change and thats why that one thing in particular is being called out over and over again. I do agree that epic archetypes, dominators, and defenders could all use a higher damage cap, but for not one of these archetypes would I start by increasing it by 200% alongside a significant base damage increase. The damage cap change is being compared directly with brutes over and over again when all ATs should be considered for a change like that. The inability to regularly hit said damage cap is being used as justification for setting that number at whatever one pleases, and as shown was chosen in direct comparison to brutes. Brutes could honestly see their damage cap lowered but that is for another discussion, as is the damage cap change for tankers and any other archetype. I sincerely believe that the tanker changes should roll out without a change to the damage cap and that damage caps for all archetypes should be looked at collectively together for a separate patch.

Good changes regarding balance are carefully thought out, and typically smaller in scale that can lead to significant improvements. These changes reek of bias and being quickly slapped on as a bandaid. Let the other changes roll out first and then see if a higher damage cap is still needed *for top-end performance only*. The damage scale increase and aoe radius increase already means they will be doing more than non-trivial damage, on top of having a higher endurance bar than every other AT.

People really need to look at this. The tanker damage cap increase went too far when combined with such a large base damage increase AND a heavy load of other buffs. The damage cap should not be balanced around red spam and fulcrum shift. Many of the arguments I am seeing from Cejmp could just as easily justify giving tankers a 1000% dmg increase because they won't regularily hit it. If anything the brute damage cap could be lowered because it actually takes _a lot_ to hit it, and either an enormous amount of red insps or fulcrum shifts to do so. Brute damage cap: 775% 100% Base 100% from enhancements for simplicity. 175% from fury That leaves a wide margin of 400% which does take a lot to build up to and only if you have the buffs or red inspirations to do so. This could easily be reduced instead of having tankers throw off the balance of every other AT because certain people can only see these changes in a vacuum of brute v tanker.

I've held back on commenting on this, because of my personal bias as well as the shown bias of those making the changes. Overall I think there are some solid improvements to the tanker class that will make them more effective and competitive with other ATs by means of a higher melee damage modifier and more unique among melee classes by means of wider aoes and a higher target cap on taunt. I think the higher endurance is a little left field but can fit well. Powerset changeups whether t1, t2, or otherwise seem fine. The one aspect of this change that I disagree with is the not small, but enormous increase to the damage cap, which I will raise several points about. For one the damage cap seems to have been chosen in a vacuum of brute v tanker comparison. I will also mention that brute damage cap is as high as it is because they have a much lower base damage and fury which eats into alot of it. Per percentage point of damage buffing, brutes gain less than other ATs with higher modifiers, including tankers. It also seems to be heavily based on gaining the most benefit possible from red spam or fulcrum shift which are poor arguments for AT balance. It disregards other ATs that suffer from low damage caps including defenders and controllers (which actually have significant damage buffs within powersets available to them), and all four epic archetypes. One of the counter arguments on keeping the enormous damage cap has been that tankers aren't going to be hitting it normally or even with significant buffing, so why set it so high in the first place? The reasoning is lacking unless every archetype set at the same damage cap was buffed similarly. I also have a strong opinion that the best changes regarding balance are not large sweeping changes but can be small and significant. If it were me making these changes I would roll out the other changes first, the increased melee modifier (which is huge by itself) along with the other utility changes that will make aggro control, area damage effectiveness, endurance, and leveling progression all stronger. I would be in support of _at most_ increasing the tanker damage cap by an additional 100%, but beyond that the reasoning is lacking and hurts balance more than helps it. If it is shown later that for some reason tankers are in need of a higher damage cap aside from other possible changes that would be more aligned with the flavor of the tanker class, then I would support it then I suppose, but I don't believe it is the right direction for the archetype as a whole or in comparison with other archetypes.

Will this include the dominator changes? Thanks!

Do we uninstall pines hero designer before installing this? And will this be able to load existing builds saved as pines files?

There is a lot of negativity that floats around about poison. Getting your build set with IOs is very important to make up for the lack of self protection that the set offers. As someone else mentioned, the set performs extremely well on fast moving teams that need a strong debuffer. A team with poison, cold, kin, and 5 damage dealers makes for some crazy fast TF times, and I personally love using my poison defender for apex and tin mage, which have the best merit rewards in the game for time invested, and a place where having a single target debuffer is very valuable for warwalkers and AVs. The -heal AND -special is also particularily helpful for gutting the healing of warwalkers and similar healing enemies. Alkaloid also gets a lot of hate, but used appropriately along with having a rez is just plenty for keeping a team moving fast. Poison is not a soloing set, it is a very powerful force multiplier for team play and does just fine acting as a sole support on a team of damage dealers, but loves most of all having a kinetics user on the team. My build has 75% S/L res and 45% ranged def which typically makes taking an alpha a non existent issue. Once youre in melee the enemy will be suffering the debuffs of venomous gas. The build continues to get better with incarnate options. I personally always use incan for team teleports but access to Rebirth and Clarion are very powerful options for a poison defender looking for more safety. I also love using Melee hybrid for a taunt aura which works very well with irradiate and venomous gas. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Poison Secondary Power Set: Radiation Blast Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Alkaloid -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(21), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21), NmnCnv-Heal(23) Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(3), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3) Level 2: Envenom -- Acc-I(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(42) Level 4: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(11), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(13), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-%Dam(40) Level 6: Irradiate -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Arm-Acc/Rchg(7), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Arm-Dam%(9), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(15) Level 8: Elixir of Life -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A) Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11) Level 12: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25), ShlWal-Def(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37) Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(15) Level 16: Proton Volley -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(17), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(17), StnoftheM-Dam%(19), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Apc-Dam%(23) Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(40) Level 20: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 22: Boxing -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(25), Stp-KB%(40), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(48), Stp-Stun/Rng(48), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50) Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A) Level 26: Poison Trap -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), Lck-%Hold(31), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), Obl-%Dam(34) Level 28: Cosmic Burst -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(34) Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(43), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(46), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(46), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFrt-EndRdx(48) Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(33) Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(36), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(36), Stp-Stun/Rng(36), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(37), Stp-KB%(50) Level 38: Atomic Blast -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39) Level 41: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(43), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43) Level 44: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(50) Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A) Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1500;726;1452;HEX;| |78DA65944B4F135114C7EF74A6600BA5145ADE05DB420B454A0770E193041123824| |15077A619E9502662DB504C342E10E413B8F7F5055CF800E3CE4FA0041F31BAF3B9| |F191A831BAB09EDEFFA136E9A4D3DFBDFF3BE771CFB933931747ABEF1C5919164AC| |DA10523974B8C9A73663A692EDA278D94352B0A5725DDDE6D3D3172616E2E3695B1| |72997447519C36D22933199B369296B16465D2891172B6249C5399CC426C266B9A4| |9B71C4E98063D9E9BB7B2D5DBF3AC954EB9E464CC4ACD2FD1CC73386BCDC6468DC5| 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You're missing the elements of uptime and stacking. Poison's debuffs don't self-stack and have 100% uptime, so that's easy - your numbers are accurate. Cold has two debuffs. One - Sleet - can self-stack and be made overlapping. The other - Heat Loss - takes considerable effort to get 100% uptime. If you've actually managed to do so, then you'll have 30% from Heat Loss and 60% from the two stacking Sleets for a total of 90%. (Note: Storm Summoning also has -resist debuffs figures in this range due to the self-stacking issue). If you're going to bring up stacking sleets then you have to mention it takes ~19 seconds before youre done casting the second with a full IO build. Also keep in mind my main years ago was a fire/cold corr. The biggest difference between cold and poison on an overall effectiveness level is this: Cold has shielding and endurance buffing Cold has better aoe debuffing and -regen I still consider Cold one of the best sets in the game alongside kinetics. WITH THAT SAID, poison can be very competitive with it, for reasons I've already listed in this thread. Poison debuffs are always available and VG is a toggle. The biggest thing to keep in mind about playing poison is you spend a lot of time spitting envenom and while you don't need to weaken everything, its cast time is longer. Poison is honestly fantastic on defenders. Resistance debuffs are amazing with damage procs which defenders need to use. Defender mods affect everything poison has to offer, and tbh the heal is solid for team healing by itself.

I played a sonic/thermal corrupter back before game went down. I was happy to reroll this one as a defender because everything both sets have to offer love defender mods. This build has softcapped ranged defense with a resist shield and enough recharge to forge 6-7 people. Spiritual Core Paragon is very important for this build. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Thermal Radiation Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Warmth -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(3), NmnCnv-Heal(5), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(5), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11) Level 1: Shriek -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), Apc-Dam%(7), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(13), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15) Level 2: Cauterize -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(15), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(19), Prv-Absorb%(19) Level 4: Howl -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(13), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(25), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33) Level 6: Thermal Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(7) Level 8: Plasma Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(9), GldArm-ResDam(9) Level 10: Power of the Phoenix -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(11), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(34), Stp-Stun/Rng(40), Stp-KB%(40), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(43) Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(33) Level 16: Shout -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(21), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25) Level 18: Forge -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(34), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(37), AdjTrg-Rchg(40) Level 20: Amplify -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 22: Thaw -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A) Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), Rct-ResDam%(45) Level 26: Heat Exhaustion -- Acc-I(A) Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(29), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(29), RedFrt-EndRdx(31), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(31), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31) Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 32: Melt Armor -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(34) Level 35: Screech -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(36), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(36), Stp-Stun/Rng(36), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(37), Stp-KB%(37) Level 38: Dreadful Wail -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39) Level 41: Oppressive Gloom -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(42), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Stp-Stun/Rng(42), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(43), Stp-KB%(43) Level 44: Dark Embrace -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(45) Level 47: Soul Transfer -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(48), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(48), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50), Stp-Stun/Rng(50), Stp-KB%(50) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A) Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon ------------

Okay, but also I just tested envenom and it doesn't stack with itself. How is it so good at killing AVs/GMs when it can't stack -regen or -res? The numbers aren't that good, and looking at raw stats you'd be MUCH better going with cold/ Cold is an incredibly strong set because of its mix of shielding and debuffing. My personal favorite set in the game. That said, I would also say it is strictly better on a corruptor, and you will get significantly better results with higher damage mods, higher damage cap, and scourge to play off all that -res you're able to lay down. Poison gets a nod towards defenders because all the debuffs are stronger and defenders can make good use out of proc damage to make up for their lower base damage and damage cap. Corr cold 54% resistance debuff before procs defender cold 60% resistance debuff before procs defender poison 65% resistance debuff before procs

Hmm. Well poison is a very strong debuffing set. Especially with defender mods. It is good for 8 man teams, task force, trial, and endgame content. The healing the set provides is plenty to patch up teams to keep them going when there may otherwise be no healing. Envenom and Weaken are central to what makes the set so great. Theses powers were originally designed as single target debuffs and the aoe splash debuff should be considered extra. For regular spawns always target the boss, sometimes if a Lt. is in the middle of the pack that can work better because of the splash, but where the powers shine is for archvillains. The debuffs poison offers is stronger than any other set - Between Envenom, Weaken, and Noxious Gas on a single target that is: -65% resistance (85% with achilles proc, 105% with fury of glad or annihilation procs) -about 60% tohit debuff -18.75% dmg debuff -50% defense debuff (or more) -50% regen debuff, but also packs a healing debuff making it more effective against things like CoT Behemoths, War Walkers, Freakshow tank smashers and more! -Reverse power boost effect on the enemy weakening their heals further, any endurance drains they have, CC, debuffs, etc. Now sure there are other sets with stronger -regen but when dps is as high as it is for endgame content these days, -resistance is the #1 debuff. The biggest competition poison faces as a debuffer is sleet. Neurotoxic Breath has an enormous recharge debuff along with the slow and chance to hold making it one of the most potent slows in the game, hence the shorter duration. Between some of the other powers having some utility and skippable/choice powers allows you to dip more into pools and epics. Having so much power in 3 abilities for poison is an amazing benefit. Lastly poison trap is a proc monster and being a trap is not an issue here, you should be running in with super speed to get in with venomous gas anyways, the trap is uninterruptable and is a 1 second cast. Before level 50 the set is still a support set and should be played carefully. The set does just fine on teams without IOs. With them, you can be very tanky. The build I have here hits 45% ranged defense and 22.9% ranged/aoe defense with 75% S/L resistance, 23% fire/cold, 12 nrg, and 36 neg. 181.25% global recharge hits perma hasten with two +5 recharge IOs. Also just shy of perma soul drain. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Poison Secondary Power Set: Radiation Blast Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Alkaloid -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(21), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21), NmnCnv-Heal(23), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(23) Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(3), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Apc-Dam%(5) Level 2: Envenom -- Acc-I(A) Level 4: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(11), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(13), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-%Dam(40) Level 6: Irradiate -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Arm-Acc/Rchg(7), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Arm-Dam%(9), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(15) Level 8: Elixir of Life -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A) Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11) Level 12: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(25), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(37), RedFrt-EndRdx(37), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(40), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40) Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(15) Level 16: Proton Volley -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(17), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(17), StnoftheM-Dam%(19), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19) Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43), Rct-ResDam%(43) Level 20: Electron Haze -- Empty(A) Level 22: Boxing -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(25), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(48), Stp-Stun/Rng(48), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50), Stp-KB%(50) Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A) Level 26: Poison Trap -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), Lck-%Hold(31), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), Obl-%Dam(34) Level 28: Cosmic Burst -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(34) Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(43), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(46), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(46), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFrt-EndRdx(48) Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(33), AchHee-ResDeb%(42) Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(36), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(36), Stp-Stun/Rng(36), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(37), Stp-KB%(50) Level 38: Atomic Blast -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39) Level 41: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45) Level 44: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45) Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A) Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon ------------ ------------ Set Bonus Totals: